CompuServe Thread

2MB floppy on my A3000

38 messages in this thread
#18336From: Bruce HoinsDec 26, 1991 10:19 PM
I'm a little behind on this one. Has anyone tried a third party HD Drive in their Amiga? Bruce H. -Via Whap!
#18448From: John Toebes/SYSOPDec 29, 1991 9:54 PM
It will not work directly. The Amiga chipset is limited to a transfer rate that will not accomodate the data comming off a HD floppy at normal speed. This special floppy in the amiga works by cutting the drive speed in half when a HD diskette has been inserted. John A. Toebes, VIII – via Whap!
#18459From: Denny Atkin [COMPUTE/AmiDec 29, 1991 10:47 PM
Neat thing about the new HD drive: Change the BlocksPerTrack in your DI0: mountlist for CrossDOS and the new drive will read and write PC 1.44MB drives. This is with the current version of CrossDOS, from a few months ago. Very nice!
#18465From: Michael GerardDec 30, 1991 12:38 AM
Denny: How did you get one of those new drives? Where? How Much? – Whapp!ng from the North Coast Michael
#18483From: Denny Atkin [COMPUTE/AmiDec 30, 1991 12:18 PM
Micheal, They're shipping in new A3000s and A3000Ts. Not available separately yet, as far as I know, although I'd expect to see them before long.
#18486From: John Toebes/SYSOPDec 30, 1991 1:56 PM
Denny, it does not appear that all 3000's are shipping with the HD drives. It looks more like a 'gee, we need some drives to put in these machines and what is that pile of drives doing over there?' type thing. But then again, I am only guessing. John A. Toebes, VIII – via Whap!
#18498From: Michael GerardDec 30, 1991 3:13 PM
I am a bit surprised at the closed door information out there regarding improvements & changes to the Amiga line. Obviously, developers, under non-disclosure are privy to some really neat stuff that's coming down the pike… but just who IS CBM trying to keep this info from? I mean, it's not like there are a bunch of AMiga clone makers out there just waiting in the wings to steal Amiga technology… I would think that letting the Amiga community as a whole know about what is at least in the final stages of development would generate some excitement for the product line among current users, and at least press realeases that might catch they eye (envy?) of non-Amiga users. – Whapp!ng from the North Coast Michael
#18502From: Andy FinkelDec 30, 1991 4:05 PM
It's most likely an attempt to avoid the Osborne Syndrome, where everyone waits for your next product, and no one buys your current product. Adam Osborne proved you could sink an entire company using the power of this Effect. andy
#18508From: Michael GerardDec 30, 1991 5:31 PM
Andy: You're right, of course, and I know better… just blowing off some steam. – Whapp!ng from the North Coast Michael
#18516From: Denny Atkin [COMPUTE/AmiDec 30, 1991 8:46 PM
While the "Osborne Syndrome" is definitely a phenomenon to be avoided, I've never beleived that is what killed Osborne's company. Sales of the Osborne 1 didn't dry up so much because everyone was waiting for the new machine (the Osborne Executive, right?), as for the fact that the original Osborne had that horrible little 50 column screen, while companies like Kaypro and Actrix had portable on the market with 9", 80-column screens and more floppy storage.
#18530From: Don Curtis/SYSOPDec 31, 1991 1:18 AM
Denny, I saw a sales chart back then….sales dropped to almost 0 pretty much as soon as word got out on the Executive. Or so the magazine I read (forget which one it was) printed. One would presume the figures they printed were fairly reliable. Don
#18545From: Andy FinkelDec 31, 1991 9:58 AM
Until the Executive was announced, Osborne was a contender. I don't remember Actrix being around much then, and Kay was still trying to get distribution together. Osborne recognized the threat of the Kaypro, which is why they preannounced the Executive. andy
#18713From: Vic WagnerJan 4, 1992 9:50 PM
Denny, I believe you're mistaken. The Osborne's sales dropped from $100million a year to 0 within 60 days. I own an Osborne I, and your right (but it was 40 columns…we had the 80 column option added). I don't believe that the Kaypro and Actrix were 'serious' competition at the time.
#18529From: Don Curtis/SYSOPDec 31, 1991 1:12 AM
Michael, Think about what you're saying. IF Commodore said something like: "We're comming out with a super neato new version of Computer X within the next year" What do you think would happen to current sales of Computer X? Do you recall Osborne Computers and what happened when they announced the Executive about 6 months before it was available? What happened was that sales of their current model dropped to almost 0 and literally drove them into bankruptcy. Don
#18544From: Michael GerardDec 31, 1991 9:53 AM
Don: I understand that, and as I said… I know better. However, have you noticed how car companies (who upgrade their models EVERY YEAR advertise the new stuff while at the SAME TIME clearancing out the old?) 🙂 Some folks don't need the 'super-neato' version, but would jump at the opportunity to get a bargain on the old stuff. (Don't you think an A2000 at say, $649 would attract some attention, eh?). While others, want the lastest & greatest. Marketing is an art, not a science. Have people stopped buying Macs & clones because Apple & IBM created a joint venture and announced a combined effort on hardware & software? Hardly. Obviously, the above questions are rhetorical… just food for thought… – Whapp!ng from the North Coast Michael
#18569From: Don Curtis/SYSOPJan 1, 1992 12:00 AM
Michael, Apples and oranges. Car companies come out with new models EVERY year, not just now and then. They also lower prices on existing stock, and quit making the old models in May or June and they take trade-ins. Computer companies come out with new models every now and then, generally already have pretty low prices and rarely take trade-ins. In fact, they usually keep making the older model…although there certainly are exceptions. Don
#18575From: Michael GerardJan 1, 1992 8:16 AM
"…and they take trade-ins." Don: They do not take trade-ins. The dealer takes trade-ins and then either resells or wholesales them, much the ame way some computer stores do. Are you saying that you haven't seen the prices on older technology computers drop prior to the release of newer technology products? How much was a 386/25DX a year ago? What was the cost of an AT BridgeBoard three months ago? Strange as it may seem, I believe the analogy is valid. – Whapp!ng from the North Coast Michael
#18578From: John PendergrassJan 1, 1992 12:12 PM
"Computer companies …. rarely take trade-ins…." Except Commodore, who at least has offered a trade-up for the A1000 owners twice now. I took advantage of it, as I'm sure many others here did as well. Despite whatever else is said about Commodore marketing, they did that right, and I appreciate them for it. There's also the 'PowerUp' offer, but I see that as more of a marketing gimmick, rather than a true trade-up. I'm sure other computer companies have also offered trade-ups (Apple comes to mind, but their deal wasn't so good) as well, but Commodore has consistently supported the Amiga community in this regard, I think. –jp–seattle–
#18591From: John Toebes/SYSOPJan 1, 1992 9:02 PM
Well, I wouldn't call what the dealer does taking a trade-in (having just bought a new car yesterday) more like offering to take a vehicle off your hands for a discount on a new vehicle. The second you drive a new car off the lot, it loses about a 1/3 of its value. If computer dealers took tradeins like car dealers (and my local computer dealer does), people would complain that they are being ripped off for the old machine. In comparison, Commodore has been extremely generous over the years. John A. Toebes, VIII – via Whap!
#18712From: Vic WagnerJan 4, 1992 9:49 PM
Michael, Read the history of Osborne Computer.
#18725From: Michael GerardJan 5, 1992 3:02 AM
from The Home Computer Wars Mike Tomcyzk (c) 1984 Compute! Books "Unfortunately, after the Osborne I was introduced, Adam Osborne couldn't follow his opening act fast enough with next-generation products, and his company went under due to a combination of industry attrition, financial problems, and competition from more sophisticated portables like the IBM-compatible Compaq, which appealed to the same market as the Osborne. As fortunes tumbled, the company went from 1000 employess to 80 employees in five months and filed Chapter 11 bankruptcy in September 1983." Vic: Osborne lost out to the competition. The poor marketing decisions were a last ditch effort to forestall the decline of the company; an attempt to buy time. Announcing the Executive was a marketing decision made as a REACTION to the decline of Osborne and the rise of competition, not just a stupid mistake that killed the sales of the Osborne I. That is the history as I read it. – Whapp!ng from the North Coast Michael
#18739From: Steve AhlstromJan 5, 1992 3:46 PM
Michael, That may be "history" as Tomcyzk wrote it, but it's not the history as Vic (and I) lived it. During that time I was working in the Bay area for a company that was seriously considering leasing the Osborne offices/production space. I knew a lot of the Osborne employees and what really happened was the total drop off of sales due to the preannouncement a future machine. -sja
#18748From: Michael GerardJan 5, 1992 9:25 PM
Steve: I guess that we're looking at the same events and interpreting them differently. I'm just guessing when I say the REASON the Exec was pre announced so early was due to _market factors_, not just a stupid mistake, but if that is true (and I do believe it is) then the drop off in sales would have occured anyway (even if at a slower rate, it would have still sounded the death toll for the company). I understand your perspective, and you may be 100% correct… I just tend to believe that marketing decisions that appear to be stupid to outsiders, (even non-marketers on the inside ala CBM), have their roots in the not-so-obvious (and therefore appear to be stupid blunders).
#18747From: Mike SchillerJan 5, 1992 8:58 PM
Michael: Another thing that killed Osborne (as far as I'm concerned) was their lack of upgradability. I bought an O-1 back in 1982 when I moved to FL (I bought it in NY and brought all my files down on O-1 floppies as my Northstar was going to be packed up for a while), and 1 week after I bought it they went over to the newer style case that gave better ventilation than the original vaccuum molded case did, and in FL here (my original apt was NOT air conditioned) I had lots of trouble running my O-1 (it was overheating), but they refused to let me upgrade it to the newer style, their answer was "sell your old one, and buy a new one" well, I packed it up, and forgot about it, and finally sold it for $300.00 in 1988. Never had anything more to do with Osborne computers. -Mike Schiller In sunny Fort Lauderdale
#18533From: Lorenz K. SieversDec 31, 1991 4:12 AM
John, I love that scenario… I can really get a good visual image of the assembly-type-person scanning piles of Amiga guts and spotting those drives. :> – Lorenz K. Sievers –
#18497From: Michael GerardDec 30, 1991 3:13 PM
"…I'd expect to see them before long." Denny: That's good news. I get tired of having to transfer stuff from MSDOS HD floppies to 720" floppies. BTW, hope your first New Years in wedded bliss is a blast! – Whapp!ng from the North Coast Michael
#18507From: Michael GerardDec 30, 1991 5:06 PM
"to 720" floppies." uh… if you think those are big, you should see the drive. – Whapp!ng from the North Coast Michael
#18517From: Denny Atkin [COMPUTE/AmiDec 30, 1991 8:46 PM
Thanks, Michael! 😉 This New Years should be fun. Next New Years, when she's finally 21, should be even better. (Grin)
#18667From: Charles FigueiredoJan 3, 1992 11:37 PM
Denny: > They're shipping in new A3000s and A3000Ts. Not available separately yet, > as far as I know, although I'd expect to see them before long. Must be in US made 3000T. My 3000T, which appears to come from Germany via KLM) did not have the HD drives
#18571From: pat beaulieuJan 1, 1992 12:37 AM
Here is my Crossdos Mountlist, how should I modify it to make my 2MB floppy drive work as a 1.44 MB IBM drive with CrossDos and IBEM?? DI0: Device = mfm.device Unit = 0 Flags = 1 /* Allow 5 1/4" drives */ Surfaces = 2 BlocksPerTrack = 9 Reserved = 1 Interleave = 0 * SecOrg = 1 */ LowCyl = 0; HighCyl = 79 /* 80 track drive */ FileSystem = L:MSDOSFileSystem Buffers = 5 BufMemType = 0 Stacksize = 4000 Priority = 5 GlobVec = -1 DosType = 0x4D534400 Mount = 0; # Thanks – via Whap!
#18586From: Denny Atkin [COMPUTE/AmiJan 1, 1992 6:00 PM
Pat, Just change the BlocksPerTrack entry to 18.
#18462From: RON TROYDec 29, 1991 11:45 PM
John, at this point does it look like a 2000 can handle this new HD floppy? Ron
#18474From: John Toebes/SYSOPDec 30, 1991 8:37 AM
Yes, because of the technology involved, the 2000 will be able to handle the HD floppy. Now actually getting one of these floppys is a completely different story. John A. Toebes, VIII – via Whap!
#18499From: RON TROYDec 30, 1991 3:23 PM
Odd thing; I was looking at a floptical scsi drive today that runs about $600 for about 20 meg, and later a lot higher, while this drive sounds almost as expensive. But at a decent price and decent availability, I'd swap drives real quickly. Ron
#18484From: Denny Atkin [COMPUTE/AmiDec 30, 1991 12:18 PM
Ron, It sure will. I tried the 3000 in my 2000–didn't quite fit physically, but worked well.
#18681From: Bruce HoinsJan 4, 1992 5:22 AM
Wierd!?! Oh well until C= admits to it I guess we'll have to wait.
#18690From: John Toebes/SYSOPJan 4, 1992 9:19 AM
A wise move to wait, but I wouldn't hold your breath expecting something soon.
#18716From: Bruce HoinsJan 4, 1992 10:12 PM
You mean I have an option? Since it is a specific drive and C= isn't talking what other options do we have?