CompuServe Thread

#Virtual Reality Machine

22 messages in this thread
#44738From: Steven D. KapplinDec 29, 1991 2:26 PM
I don't know if anyone caught this. I read about it in, I think, Byte or Compute. A new arcade toy, Virtuality. A machine in which you don a helpmet (helmet) and some controls and are transported into a virual reality environment. You can battle another person on an adjacent machine in a combat simulation or you can operate a jet fighter simulator. The machine is powered by two Amiga computers (didn't say which ones). Will be out in 1992 at the amazingly low price of $60,000. Look for it at your favorite game arcade.
#44764From: R.SATOHDec 29, 1991 9:45 PM
I saw few kinds of games on Virtuality on Japanes computer magazine & those in Japan were generated by A3000. Yeeepppi! – THANX R.SATOH ->via Whap!
#44851From: Steven D. KapplinDec 30, 1991 7:16 PM
Ah, then you've actually seen one of these machines? Amazing. The article seemed to suggest they were new. Goes to show how up-to-date the press is.
#44852From: Michael GerardDec 30, 1991 7:30 PM
There's a VR 'game' in Columbus, OH. Something like $2 a minute. – Whapp!ng from the North Coast Michael
#44909From: Steven D. KapplinDec 31, 1991 2:47 PM
Michael, Gee, that's almost as cheap as some of the 900 software help lines!!! That's also a good contrast to the 900 "entertainment" numbers!!! Which of those other two VRs do you think will get the most "action"?
#44917From: Michael GerardDec 31, 1991 4:43 PM
hehe 🙂 – Whapp!ng from the North Coast Michael
#44859From: R.SATOHDec 30, 1991 10:01 PM
Its a pretty neat looking device with helmet(monitor eye piece) and a glove like NES power glove(<-I don't know if they use it for all application.) and a plastic bucket seat. Other people could watch it on the optional monitor on the side and I believe each game cost like $2.50. Currently there is a Harrier flight simulator(or shooting game) & a stunt car racing game or something… I also saw some more article of virtuality being placed in a bars & clubs for entertainment in home ground England. Can't wait to play the real one! – THANX R.SATOH ->via Whap!
#44910From: Steven D. KapplinDec 31, 1991 2:48 PM
The "real" one what? Do you mean the real Virtuality or the real thing?!!!
#44832From: Charles HillDec 30, 1991 3:59 PM
Download AM-Report v1.19 for a nice article on Spectrum Holobyte's new Virtuality line. (Lib 4 in Amiga User here on CIS). The simulators use Amiga 3000s boosted with special TI graphics chips (one for each eye). -Chas
#44937From: John PendergrassDec 31, 1991 10:23 PM
Neat! There's a Virtual Reality game at a local arcade right now, that a pal has been trying to get me out to for awhile. It uses a helmet and data-gloves, and apparently the goal is to wander around in a castle or something. $5.00 for 5 minutes, I heard. 🙂 I had a weird thought several mos ago… what if you took two Sony Watchmans (the ones with the little 3" tv screens) apart for the monitors, and put the monitors in a motorcycle helmet, and hooked up miniture speakers in the helmet, and developed a way to measure the way the helmet is positioned, and hooked it all up to two Amigas, syncronized? Seems to me you could do budget VR for under $10,000 in that case? Whadjathink? –jp–seattle–
#44947From: Steven D. KapplinDec 31, 1991 11:39 PM
John, Ha! Just what we need. An inexpensive toy, to say the least. Wonder if that would scare Nintendo? Now, if you could do that with CDTV you'd really have something!! Well, I guess that piece I read was just a little dated. They said it would be available next year, but apparently that little 60 grand toy is out there right now. I don't think I would like to play a game at $60 an hour, would you? Of course the scary thing is that when I tell prospective clients I charge $75 an hour the phone goes "click". But those same birds probably would pop $60 an hour to pretend they were jet fighter pilots! Wouldn't you just know it.
#44979From: John PendergrassJan 1, 1992 12:13 PM
Probably could be done via CDTV, if the imagery was line drawings, rather than solid. I suspect it could be 'fast' enough. But how would you get two video signals out of one amiga? –jp–seattle–
#45003From: Steven D. KapplinJan 1, 1992 4:05 PM
John, Don't ask me! I don't even know how to get one video signal out!! I just watch video (ha!) You know I read InfoWorld and Byte regularly and I'm always amazed at the mass of products for the PCs to make them faster, multi-task, do video, etc. When you get done with one of those monsters it will cost twice what an Amiga costs and not be half as good, yet both pubs seem to be terrified of ever mentioning the word "Amiga" anywhere in the magazine. What a trip to have something like this Virtuality machine being run by two Amigas. Do you think Byte would ever mention it? I doubt it, because they'd have to print the 'A' word (and Jerry P. would probably have to write about it.)
#45033From: Wayne ColeJan 1, 1992 9:04 PM
John, The most direct way to tell the helmet orientation is with an IMU – gyros set at precise angles to each other that give angular accelerations and linear acceleration measuerments. A processor then integrates those accelerations to compute velocity and postition. Expensive technology that requires constant calibration. (Unless you go with the HRG – Hemispherical Resonating Gyro a sealed peice of wine glass shaped glass that is excited and whose resonance pattern is monitored for acceleration effects – where talking several hundred K per copy!) wmc
#45050From: John PendergrassJan 1, 1992 11:07 PM
Re determining the position and orientation of something (head, hand, etc)…. Aren't there several ways of locating things via distance accurately? ie. autofocus cameras, etc? If so, Then couldn't you use four of those (positioned at pyramid points), to determine the *position* of something accurately? For instance, re hand positions…. an idea I had a couple years ago: a hand operated 3D object editing system. The idea would be that you would put a 'cage' of these four devices around the computer, and the user would move their hand (wearing a 'power glove') around in space, grabbing and moving points. There would be a Haitek 3D display on the monitor showing you what was going on. The power glove would recongnize when you grabbed, moved, etc points. I don't know how one would determine the orientation accurately? One though I had was to build a wire 'halo' around the head. The helmet would have a guide wire running to the 'halo'. As the guide wire moved on the halo, one would be able to measure resistance or something, so that one could determine orientation in 3d as well. Weird, I know. Radio or gyro would obviously be better, etc…. but as you say, more expensive! –jp–seattle–
#45153From: Wayne ColeJan 3, 1992 12:36 AM
John, most of the autofocus things you mention are either I/R or sonic based. Their sampling frequency is low (to keep cost down) and you sometimes fake them out with motion. Response times are usually measured in terms of seconds. Your idea is great. But it also has significant technical challanges. Your X-Specs wearer will undoubtedly move his head. Therefore, tracking the head to hand distance/position is critical with a complex or dense object (i.e lots o points). I'm sure there must be some other way to do it, but on all the systems I've worked on, there were either gyros and accelerometers to get angular and linear acceleration readings that are double integrated and filtered along the way to get accurate and timely (like 20 – 40 msec) position updates. Admittedly these systems had stricter requirements (trying to put something the size of a house at a position +/- 20 meters of an exact postion in space 300 miles above the earth) but the problem is not terribly different. It is more complicated since your hand will be undergoing unknown trajectories to unknown positions instead of flying a predetrmined path to a predetermined point. Basically you problem is star wars – trying to knock out multiple warheads undergoing evasive manuevers using a launcher that is not stationary. It's a non-trivial progblem. However, you may want to approach NASA with it. It would have a great application for earth-bound training for zero-G construction, etc. They might be willing to put some grant money out to study the problem and come up with some possible design approaches. Course they'd probably opt for some holographic display instead of a monitor!! wmc
#45225From: John PendergrassJan 3, 1992 8:02 PM
Oh well. It sounds like you know what you're talking about 🙂 What about some sort of rangefinder via radio or something? There must be something used to detect motion that is 1) fast, 2) unobtrusive, 3) usable on the amiga, 4) cheap! 🙂
#45254From: Jonathan HirschmanJan 4, 1992 1:45 AM
I can think of two items that will detect 3-D motion, and are in use on PC's now (or soon will be). First is the Nintendo Power glove, that uses radio triangulation to do its thing. There was an article in Byte a while ago that explained how to adapt it for the PC. Second, Logitech is coming out with a 3-D "mouse" that appears to work along the same lines as the Power Glove. Either one would be ideal. I'd be willing to bet that there will be an InPort version (bus mouse)… couple that with the article in the Jan. Amazing that explains how to use those things on the Amiga, and….
#45269From: Kelly JordanJan 4, 1992 9:26 AM
The Nintendo Power glove does not use "radio triangulation", but uses UltraSonic Sound triangulation. There is a big difference – radio waves go at the speed of light, while ultrasonic waves go at the speed of sound. Radio triangulation isn't practicle for such close ranges. I saw a nintendo power glove going for about $38.CDN on the canadian shopping channel during their boxing day sale.
#45412From: Jonathan HirschmanJan 5, 1992 11:37 PM
Kelly– I stand corrected on the Power Glove…I don't mess around with Nintendo hardware that much…:) Jonathan – via Whap!
#45293From: John PendergrassJan 4, 1992 4:11 PM
Jonathan, thanks (and to Kelly too, for his further info on the PowerGlove)…. given the small distances involved (inside a room at max) I would think that sound triangulation would be fast enough? I guess it would depend on how fast the reciever did the calculation of the actual time? Appreciate the reminder on the artical in Amazing about using the PowerGlove. I'll look through my old mags for it.
#45450From: Jerry IsdaleJan 6, 1992 4:52 PM
You dont even need to tear apart a watchman. There are small color video LCD systems available as add-on viewfinders for camcorders. I also saw a bunch of lcd televisions when I was in Japan last december. Some had detached displays with receiver in a sperate box (all smaller than a cigarette box!) For 3D, you could spend mega-bucks for the VPL glove/sensors or a few bucks for the NES powerglove and maybe the Logitech 3D mouse. One problem with VR is the lack of tactile feedback when you grab something. A Pasadena company, Simgraphics, sells a 3d Mouse (was originally called Das Fledermouse, or the Bat) that has a tactile option. It is a little point, like the end of a pen, in the button on the mouse. They can raise and lower them to let you know when you 'contact' a virtual object. Jerry Isdale