CompuServe Thread

#AirLink info

35 messages in this thread
#14251From: John PendergrassDec 26, 1991 6:52 PM
[ continuation ] there remember 'Triclops Invasion'? 🙂 –jp–seattle–
#14253From: Black Belt SystemsDec 26, 1991 7:20 PM
I remember it just fine. :^) John, where does this goodie attach? Ben
#14277From: John PendergrassDec 26, 1991 11:57 PM
The standard 'AirLink' attaches to the joystick port. They supply a 4' cable and the little (1"x1") IR box that plugs on the end of the cable, as well as the software. There is the 'PowerMid' transmitter/receiver, which is the same thing as the X-10 system unit), but repackaged by Geodesic. This allows cable-free connections of the computer control to an IR unit in another room. But, you can get it to attach to just about any port on the computer. ie. 9-pin Amiga IR LED Adapter – attaches to serial port. 25-pin Amiga IR LED Adapter – attaches to par port, with -8- individually addressable LEDs. The manual says that this is a 25-pin adaptor, then 8 phone cables with IR LED's on each end. Phono IR LED Adaptor. Hooks up to the audio outputs. You can purchase these items direct from them, or if you're handy with a soldering iron, he actually provides diagrams and Radio Shack parts #'s to purchase/make them yourself! The ALSO have a unit called the 'IllumiLink' ($95) that connects to the joystick port, contains a IR receiver/transmitter and a phone tone decoder for a wireless telephone. To paraphrase their manual, "The phone becomes a remote Amiga mouse/command center for live multimedia presentations. Phone keys may be programmed to activate x,y mouse clicks, menu selections, keyboard, par port, or infraRed signals." Don't know what I would do with such a thing, but it certainly sounds interesting! –jp–seattle–
#14292From: Miguel ChavezDec 27, 1991 5:51 PM
I wonder if that phonelink thingy is what the folks here at New York University are using when they run their interactive cable-tv show. It's some sort of AV script, all weirdly done, and you can call and by pressing certain keys you can control the presentation. For those of you who live in New York City and get Manhattan Cable, I believe it's on channel 6 late at night (around 11pm-12am) on sundays. I could be wrong so just check your TV guide. MC
#14301From: John PendergrassDec 27, 1991 11:47 PM
I don't know. Here's the text of the 'Illumlink' blurb in the manual: "IllumiLink $95. – The IllumiLink connects to the Amiga's second mouse port. It contains an IR receiver, transmitter, and a phone tone decoder for a wireless telephone. The phone becomes a remote Amiga mouse/command center for live multimedia presentations. Phone keys may be programmed to activate xy mouse clicks, menu selections, keyboard keys, ARexx scripts, serial port, MIDI, parallel port, or infrared signals. A wireless phone may be used to control any multitasking program such as the VideoToaster and AmigaVision. The IllumiLink has all the features of AirLink, too." (text directly from the AirLink manual, by Geodesic Publications) The concept of allowing viewers to directly control a TV broadcast is compelling! I think it would be fascinating to develop a 'game' in which a viewer called in and had control of an on-screen 'person' exploring an environment for a few minutes, at which time control would go to another person, etc. Not a 'game' in the usual sense, but a serial collaborative effort maybe. Lots of other potential too, I think. I'm going to be calling Geodesic soon, and will ask your question and will report back. TTFN –jp–seattle–
#14378From: Miguel ChavezDec 30, 1991 6:02 PM
The more I think of it, the more I feel that the NYU folks here are using something they created themselves. The reason? Their show is almost always crashing on them. Maybe only 1 or 2 people get to actually navigate around the av script with their touchtone pads before you either see the Guru or a blank Workbench screen. The concept really isn't that innovative (touchtone IC's have been around for quite a while). What is nice is that someone finally made it for the Amiga! MC
#14428From: John PendergrassDec 31, 1991 10:15 PM
Very sad… always crashing. Not a good thing. I don't see any particular problem in running a show the way you describe. Might be easier to run a public access program that way (allowing remote dial-in control) than shooting a regular show. You program the computer, and then just sit back and watch it work. Neat idea, I think. –jp–seattle–
#14482From: Michael MattsonJan 2, 1992 11:10 AM
Eccentially that is the ideal that is being developed here in Old Toon Town (Tucson). We are developing an interactive cable station using "Off the shelf" programs and hardware. If successfull (and everything is pointing in that direction) a user can dial in with his phone and request his information. We've seen interactive computers before. But mostly that are of the text variety. Our objective is to enform the viewer but with well written scripts showing graphics and animations. (After all we're selling sizzle here, anyone can pick up the paper and get the same info, we have). The prototype date is set for Jan. 10th. The hardest obstacle has been cleared. (The phone interaction). Now we hook this thing up and see if it works. I know Can Do can, the question is… Can I? Whap! Mind Productions
#14522From: John PendergrassJan 3, 1992 12:10 AM
What hardware are you using? (for the interactive, telephone control stuff) If you don't mind me asking 🙂 Also, re the CanDo stuff, feel free to fire away with CanDo questions…. either here or in the Innovatronics area of AmigaVend. Should be help avail in that regard if you need it. Good luck. –jp–seattle–
#14572From: Michael MattsonJan 4, 1992 12:24 AM
What hardware are you using? (for the interactive, telephone control stuff)- Unfortunately, that part had to be custom built. I have yet to see the unit, but I am told that at the moment it can handle two phone lines with a design opening to accomadate more in the future. (We anticipate over 2000 phone calls a month for starters). The devise mearly encodes the incoming tones to coresponding numbers. i.e. 1 followed by a * or # will tell the computer to run script 1. Granted this is simplified, considering that we have on the prototype 1000 scripts, and can handle up to 10,000. (Again future expansion if needed). My end of it is the script writing, graphics, sound, music, narration, animation. It's been an interesting experiment that I've been throug these past 6 months. I never thought that I could do such a thing in the past. Yet, the prototype runs in 7 days. (Jan. 10th) Whap! Speed, Mr. Sulu
#14603From: John PendergrassJan 4, 1992 4:08 PM
Micheal, hope your premier goes real well! Good luck! –jp–seattle–
#14676From: Karl SparklinJan 5, 1992 9:42 PM
Your project sounds very interesting. A public access station here in southern Ohio is going on-line soon with a simple call-up-and-request-a-graphic program that is apparently off-the-shelf for the Amiga from someone. Do you know about this? Unfortunately, I hear that it can only handle 16 colors and 320×200 graphics, though I can't imagine why it should care, as a controller. If you're successful, maybe these guys would upgrade to what YOU'RE doing! Karl – via Whap!
#14293From: Black Belt SystemsDec 27, 1991 7:23 PM
Thanks for the details, John. Certainly sounds fun. Ben
#14279From: Paul ToalDec 27, 1991 4:39 AM
jp, does this mean you gave up on mediaphile? What did you hear (or read)? Paul –pt–not seattle– 😉
#14299From: John PendergrassDec 27, 1991 11:46 PM
Nope, haven't given up on MediaPhile at all. MediaPhile appears to have a more 'complete' system, as well as offers direct (ie. not IR) control of some consumer/professinal equip. It also offers IR control as well, though. But the MediaPhile stuff is a good deal more expensive; for instance the basic MediaPhile IR Controller (hardware) is $245, and the basic software is $200 (plus another disk for another $200). As the man says, 'Soon you're talking real money' 🙂 So I was looking for an alternative and research turned up Geodesic Publications and their AirLink. Boy they sure don't advertise much! Anyway, I called them up, spoke with Mark Adams (the main guy), had a nice chat about Triclops Invasion (he actually remembered that I'd written him a nice letter re Triclops in about 1987! and he mentioned it first… ie…. 'Say, didn't you write me a letter years ago re Triclops?…'). Anyway, it sounded like AirLink did pretty much what I wanted, for $50 no less, so I took a chance and ordered it from him. Turns out it works great! So, I'm still interested in MediaPhile, but want to more fully explore AirLink (and it's companion products) first. Why? 1) Cost. 2) It seems to offer pretty good low-level support (ARexx, multiple ways to control stuff), and 3) I like the guy, and if his stuff works I am satisfied. So far I haven't found anything Geodesic's stuff can't do that I want. If I decide to go with some 'Prosumer' level Sony or Pioneer equip then I'll likely go with some MediaPhile stuff, since they offer direct control of that equip, which the Geodesic stuff does not. Make sense? –jp–seattle–
#14477From: Paul ToalJan 2, 1992 5:28 AM
Very much sense! Thanks Paul P.S. If you discover any other neat things in your search let me know 🙂 –pt–not seattle– 😉
#14284From: Mark SterlingDec 27, 1991 10:29 AM
Sounds like a good product. Will it handle 2 vcrs, LD player, TV, CDplayer and AV preamp on one giant virtual keypad? Right now I need a Batman Utility Belt for all the remotes. Yep, I remember Triclops invasion. We're talking some pretty weird stuff! I wonder if it is still around somewhere. It might run faster on the 3000. The interface was umm.. turgid but challenging. ….Mark 74335,1677
#14300From: John PendergrassDec 27, 1991 11:46 PM
Remember that I have only had this thing for under a week, ok? With that in mind, I'd guess that if it can be controlled via IR, then this gadget will offer control of it. It offers control of both 'single burst' and 'multi burst' IR controllers (some send a 'start' signal before the actual command, I gather). It offers IR control of either single event triggers (ie. play, rewind, etc) or continuous triggers (like the scan button on a CD or a jog-shuttle on a VCR/LD). I'm going to bring several more pieces of equip into the house to test RSN. Right now I have it controlling my VCR (Mitsubishi U-80) and CD Player on both seperate 'remote' windows, and an alternative version on one combined window. You can implement as many or as few 'buttons' for each device (so if you wanted the basic controls for all on one window for ease of use, but wanted complete detail on another window, that is certainly possible). I wouldn't see any reason why you couldn't combine hundreds of 'buttons' on one screen, if you wished. I'm planning on trying out CanDo and AV control of it soon as well. The only problem that I can see is when the *same* remote signal causes actions on two seperate devices. Say you have a JVC VCR, and a Sony television. A signal that looks like '-0–0-' turns 'PLAY' on the VCR, and also selects 'MUTE' on the TV. Problem. I've talked with several video salespeople re 'universal' remotes on this, thinking that the problem must occur there as well. They have said that it rarely is a problem in their experience. But one never knows, I guess…. –jp–seattle–
#14330From: Mark SterlingDec 29, 1991 12:06 PM
Airlink sounds very useful; especially if it can be controlled from inside other programs via Arexx. Just last night I went to a friend's house. He has VideoDirector (sp) from Gold Disk. It is software, a serial cable ending in a minijack and a joyport cable ending in an IR transmitter/receiver. We trained the IR link for a VHS deck and plugged the jack into a Sony V99 camcorder "remote" socket. The program lets you use the V99 (or any Lan-c compatible deck) as a source. The time "code" is displayed on the screen along with buttons for all the transport functions. A-B roll type assembly is easy with this setup. Simply mark start and end points for each edit. It makes a list with the names you supply. When you have them all marked and in order just click on "assemble" and it shuttles the source deck, pre-rolls the record deck and copies the segments in order. We got decent results the first time! At less than $200 to add decent editing for someone with a camcorder (lan-c only) and almost any other deck this sounds like a good product. The remote device might even be the same one you bought but marketed by Gold Disk. It also works with variable burst and continuous triggering. Won't transmit through a beer bottle tho. B^) ….Mark 74335,1677
#14331From: Michael GerardDec 29, 1991 1:08 PM
"Won't transmit through a beer bottle tho." Hmmm… did you try a lite beer? – Whapp!ng from the North Coast Michael
#14415From: Mark SterlingDec 31, 1991 4:00 PM
"Hmmm… did you try lite beer?" Shoot! It was even a Coor's Cutter but no-go. No foolin' ….Mark
#14425From: John PendergrassDec 31, 1991 10:14 PM
I wasn't aware that Gold Disk had a similar product at all. Thanks for letting me know. Their hardware sounds similar…. basically an IR emitter controlled via the joy port. I don't know about GD, but I like the flexibility of being able to use other ports as well (serial, parallel, audio — shoot, Geodesic seems to have covered all the bases!). The 'training' software for AirLink is pretty simple to use. I've already used it to train four devices (CD, VCR, two laserdisks) with no problems. I've 'driven' the software from a CanDo application (sort of a 'super remote control) via ARexx with no problems. I suppose that Geodesic's seperate ARexx control package may offer even more control. I'll know soon. Does the GD product offer any sort of wireless xmit mode? That sounds like the next logical step. (ie. like Geodesic's PowerMid X10 interface)? Sounds like there is competition in this marketplace! Great! –jp–seattle–
#14502From: Mark SterlingJan 2, 1992 8:11 PM
The Gold Disk controller is pretty specific to doing editing with a source that can be controlled via a lan-c cable. I didn't read much of the manual during my short exposure to the product. It might that other connectors can be used than the ones I saw. The Airlink sounds pretty neat; I think I want one. The advantage of the cable hookup was that the software knew just where it was on the tape. The bi-directional link sends info from the time counter. The hardware seems similar but the software seems "aimed" very differently. ….Mark
#14556From: John PendergrassJan 3, 1992 7:58 PM
Yeah, getting info back from the machine is important too. In a LaserDisk environment that isn't as important, since you can always just go to a particular frame. Of course you have to HOPE that it got there! 🙂 The MediaPhile people advertise a VCR cable that returns the position on a tape, for several different VCR's. The Mitsubishi U-80/70 are two of them, and that may be economical way to go. They do put a sort of time code on the tape as they records (indeed, they needs it for insert editing), so maybe that way the AirLink (or even GD?) could get frame accurate searching from an economical VCR? –jp–seattle–
#14781From: Mark SterlingJan 8, 1992 1:03 PM
JOHN, I know the Panasonic decks like the AG-1950 put a sort of time code on tape but don't know what could be done with less capable decks. The time counter on my Sony V99 camcorder seemed to be very accurate when used with the GD controller setup. Maybe the Mitsu decks do something similar. I saw the U-80 and U-70 at a Circuit City store the other day. They look like nice machines. What I really need is a single framer. Hmmm would you like to hire the services of a place that had single frame Amiga recording? There might be one here RSN. What media would you send data on? First generation tapes will be in either Hi8/8mm or S-VHS/VHS format. Dupes can be on anything reasonable except Panasonic Digital 1/2" (who has one?). We will accept Quarterback floppies, Syquest44 carts, 3M MCD40 tape cart and DC6150/6250 1/4" carts. We would prefer NOT to render. 24bit pictures will be displayed via a Firecracker to encoder and then the tape deck. Pricing will be based on frames and complexity. The service is in the planning stage now but likely will be running in 30-60 days. ….Mark 74335,1677
#14790From: John PendergrassJan 8, 1992 7:39 PM
The Mitsu U-80 does put it's own 'frame count code' or some such, on tape. It does it only when first recorded, however, and any subsequent insert edits won't mess it up. That's how I 'join' most of my shorter anims. But it is NOT single frame capable, in a recording sense. It seems that several people may be starting up single frame recording services. I know of at least two others who are considering it anyway. Frankly, the ones that are offering videodisk recording are most attractive to me. Good recording format, and very flexible to deal with later. If I'm going to send 100's of megabytes of 24bit images, I'd almost certainly get a tape system. I know that one could JPEG the 24bit images before sending them, but I think that it might be better to just send the unJPEG'd images, due to the time required to compress/decompress each image. I expect that you'd charge more to record 1000 frames of JPEG stuff than regular IFF24 stuff? After all, it takes quite a bit of time to decompress files at times. Time = money. What do you think? –jp–seattle–
#14812From: Mark SterlingJan 9, 1992 2:26 PM
It sounds like the U-80 is fairly equivalent to the Panasonic AG-19xx machines. I have an older Mitsubishi VHS that doesn't do that sort of stuff. The Videodisk recording does have some good advantages such as durability and random access. Most of the video disk formats cannot be played on a regular LD player so unless you have access to a compatible player you cannot make dupes from the first generation although the service bureau could. We simply cannot afford one at this point. JPEG stuff has its advantages and disadvantages. It is easier to transfer and store the JPEG images because of the smaller size. There is some loss involved depending on the image and the compression values used and it does take some time to decompress them. I think we would do quotes based on the type of files we would be working from. The slowest machine used for processing will be a 25mHz 3000 so uncompressing will happen at a reasonable pace. Both ADPro and IMFc seem to uncompress JPEGs ata good clip. If tape is used to send files then compression should not be a big issue. A 250meg tape will hold 500 500k size images. We plan to be rather inexpensive without giving up final quality. We can arrange transfer to other media based on cost of rental for short term use of the proper machine. Just about anything is rentable in our marketplace.
#14871From: John PendergrassJan 10, 1992 9:52 PM
When I think of mastering to laserdisc I'm definitely thinking of those that will play on comsumer brand LD players. I understand that there are laserdisc recorders that can make masters that will play on standard LD players? Maybe I'm mis-remembering some messages to that effect? Re JPEG storage. I've found common times for a hires-interlace image to compress/decompress (in ADPro, for example) are in the 3-5 minute range (on a 28mhz 030, at least). Black Belt's was a tad faster as I recall, but certainly nothing like just loading/saving a regular IFF24 image. If I'm going to render 1000+ images I probably don't want to spend another 4 minutes per image compressing them, I think? (4000 minutes @ 3 full days of computer time, just for the compressing) And then you'd have to uncompress. It would have to figure into your cost, right? Then again, given the rendering time to do 1000+ frames, maybe it's not so bad! 🙂 –jp–seattle–
#14369From: Steve AhlstromDec 30, 1991 12:27 PM
John, My computer, TV, VCR, stereo, etc. are located along the same wall — how do you overcome the line of sight problem? -sja
#14427From: John PendergrassDec 31, 1991 10:15 PM
What if your equip is all along one wall… how do you deal with the line of sight problem? So far I haven't had to deal with that…. I just put all my stuff in one corner, relatively close to one another. I can imagine several ways of dealing with it though… 1. Use the PowerMid X-10 add-on (avail for $50). It is a wireless transmitter and receiver; you connect the transmitter to the Amiga, and the receiver (which then emits the IR signals) on the other side of the room. So long as it is within the readable sight lines of the equip, I'd think that would work? 2. Use the Parallel connector. (will sell it to you for $50 also). That has -8- seperate IR emitters, each of which could be placed close to a particular piece of equip? Wiring problem, it seems to me…. Note: I don't have either of above, but that's how I read their descriptions, anyway. –jp–seattle–
#14418From: Vic WagnerDec 31, 1991 6:27 PM
John, Re: single/multi burst. One of them sends the command only once, then a 'do it again' command repeatedly (like volume up/down on the control next to me). We've used the AirLink software here in the office, and it's ability to record a remote control saved us about 3 days of research in a project last year in which we had to control a bunch of CD players and ONLY had IR control on the embedded machine to talk to them. We figured out the 'code' in 4 hours using a combination of AirLink, Snap, and Dpaint (don't ask). In many respects it was easier than reading a manual written in Japanglish (and certainly a lot more fun).
#14430From: John PendergrassDec 31, 1991 11:05 PM
It sure is a neat little program, no? I can imagine how it saved you time. In my mind it (and others like it) may be a suitable way for use consumers to use 'off the shelf' video/audio equip in an amiga automated way. Anything that you can do with the remote of a piece of equip you can now do via the Amiga. And controllable via many progs, since it is ARexx controlled. For instance, I am the new owner of a Pioneer 3090 Laser disk player. I'm just starting to work with it, but so far have managed to get it to do chapter search, frame search, single step, both sides play, freeze frames, etc…. all controlled via AirLink. The cost of this LD is @ $800-900. As far as I can tell, it would be in the $2000+ range (ie. the Pioneer 8000 LD) to get similar features that can be controlled directly via the serial port. So long as the IR control is accurate (and so far it seems so), then this is much more cost effective. Only real problem is that you cannot get info back from the LD player, but if the machine is totally under program control I can deal with that I think). Same thing is true re video control (ie. control TV's from it), VCR control, etc. I don't know of much more the PC-VCR does (for example) than the Mitsubishi U-70/82 for instance? And you can certainly pick those up for less. I KNOW that there are other differences between professional gear and consumer gear, but at least the AirLink allows many more of us 'average' folk to explore computer controlled audio/video than would be able to afford to otherwise. DPaint? 🙂 –jp–seattle–
#14677From: Karl SparklinJan 5, 1992 9:42 PM
John, And now, a 3090?!? I have come to the conclusion that you have entirely too much money. Kar – via Whap!
#14684From: John PendergrassJan 5, 1992 11:01 PM
I wish…. $$$ … no, the 3090 tooks some savings. I'd been collecting LD's for over a year, with nothing to view them on 🙁 Finally convinced the wife we should splurge. Price wasn't too bad, actually. 🙂 Hey, it's freeze frame is real nice…. now to hook that baby up via the AirLink controller, and get an interactive machine! –jp–seattle–
#14478From: Paul ToalJan 2, 1992 5:28 AM
If it happens, just turn the remote control upside down 🙂 –pt–not seattle– 😉