Display Enhancement
25 messages in this thread
Hi! everyones, I would like to enhance my A2000 display and would like
to know what kind and brand of hardware is recommended. I have seen
the Commodore 1950 MultiSync monitor and the Commodore A2320 display
enhancer. Are these good choices? What I'm looking for is to get
that nice VGA look on my Amiga. Any suggestions or help would be
appreciated. Thank.
– In Touch From Overseas Bruno
Bruno,
I am using a CBM 1950 monitor and MicroWay flickerFixer. Right now, I am
totally satisfied with the setup. However, there are a few things you
should be aware of.
I originally had some trouble with the monitor. It kept going after a few
months. CBM kept replacing it for free. They said there was a bad batch. My
current monitor has been fine. Also, there are certain tradeoffs no matter
which display enhancer you get. Besides the FF and A2320, there's one made
by ICD, called Flicker Free Video. The main bad part wih the FF is that you
can't bypass it easily. However, with the DEB board, you can free up your
video slot and use it with a genlock. With the other two, there were
similar problems. I don't recall which was which, but I think one has to go
in the video slot, meaning you can't put anything else there. Wih the
other, you can't use a genlock.
Finally, with all the disply enhancers and a multisync monitor, the
picture is shifted to the right and you have
a black border on the left. You can correct this for a hard drive easily
with Prefs. However, you'll have to change Prefs on all your floppies, if
you want to center your screen. Good luck.
Dom Fontana
Dominic,
Does the Toaster qualify as a genlock? I am using FFV with it. The only
complaint I have about the FFV is that it can't sync to productivity mode
or productivity interlace. One other minor 'gotcha' is that after
activating the Toaster, the non-interlaced modes flicker very silghtly when
displayed by FFV.
wmc
I thought FFV was supposed to work with ECS Denise productivity mode.
Leslie,
ICD tells me that since productivity is 31.5 MHz to start with that it is
available at the Amiga 23 pin port only. I guess if you listen as a
lawyer would listen you would hear that it is COMPATIBLE with Productivity
mode, it doesn't display it. So I see no clear advantage of FFV over FF
with DEB.
wmc
This is strange. I could've sworn I read in Amiga World that FFV was
compatible with the ECS productivity mode! Could this be why ICD dropped
the FFV price?
Leslie,
It IS compatible – it just doesn't display it!! Basically you can run a
switch box and switch to the 23 pin and get the productivity mode in a box
that has FFV installed (hence FFV is compatible with it, just as it is
compatible with the Toaster).
BTW, if you are planning to run a switch box to the monitor and a Toaster
you need CBM part number 390682-01 15 pin to 23 pin adaptor. CBM did not
buffer the synch signals inside the AMiga so they do it in this connector
(I peaked – one IC and one cap). Redmond does not buffer their cables at
the 23 pin end so you are better off (monywise too) getting the above part,
and a standard VGA cable to the switch box. Then get a $19 switch box with
HD15 connectore on it and you be in business.
wmc
Wayne,
I had much trouble trying to use a switch box with my Amiga. I wanted to
connect both the RGB and my flickerFixer output to the box and switch
between them on my CBM 1950 monitor. I went through three boxes and none
worked properly. The last box was from Redmond and it didn't work. I knew
the cables had to be buffered, so I got the cables from Redmond, who said
they were buffered. I sent everything back and had just about given up
hope, when I saw your message.
If you don't mind, could you please repeat exactly what I need to purchase
in order to get the setup that I mentioned above? Please also include a
suggestion as to which box to get.
Thank you.
Dom Fontana
Dom,
If you have the 1950 you already have the CBM 23 – 15 pin buffered
converter. Then you need a standard VGA monitor cable to a swithbox from
the CBM converter. Same cable to the box from FF. Then 1950 to the box.
Radio chack has sheilded coax cable 15 pin male to 15 pin female 6 foot
cables that work great (about $19.00 each). The switch box was part number
LCS 3617, AB High density 15 pin monitor switchbox from Lyben Computer
Systems 313-649-4500 at $19.95.
Redmond Cables are not burffered – they may be shielded but not buffered.
To be buffered requires some electronics in the connector (peak in your CBM
connector – you'll see what I mean). If you are not using well sheilded
cables throughout, you'll have degenerated displays (like lots of shadows,
ghosting etc.) Alos not that the cables can only go one direction. If you
plug the cables in wrong-end-to, all you'll get is a green monochrome
display.
BTW, with the above set-up you'll need 15 pin female to femal adaptors as
the female ends of the radio shack cables want to mate with the female HD15
plugs on the switchbox.
wmc
Wayne,
Thanks for the help. This is the setup you have, and it works, right?
Let's see if I have it straight. I have to buy the switch box from Lyben
Computer Systems, and two cables and two adapters from Radio Shack. The two
cables are 15-pin male to 15-pin female. The adapters have 15-pin male
plugs at both ends. I plug the adapters into the two cables, so that each
cable now has 15-pin male plugs at both ends.
The box has three 15-pin female plugs. One cable goes from the box into
the 15/23-pin adapter for the Amiga RGB port. The other cable goes from the
box into the 15/9-pin adapter for the fickerFixer. Then, the 1950 15-pin
male cable goes into the box's 15-pin female monitor port. By turning a
dial I can view either the RGB or FF output on the 1950, and I can switch
back and forth even with the Amiga on.
Do I have it right?
Thanks again. If you confirm my understanding, I will buy your suggested
setup.
Dom Fontana
Dom, That is the setup I have working right now except with FFV and a Loop
CT 1458 monitor. You should note that when you flip the switch there will
be a horizontal offset of the picture after the monitor synchs up which you
will need to compensate for with a horizontal position adjust which I
assume the 1950 has.
Do be sure you look at the pin numbering on sockets and cables to get pin
one lined up properly or you'll have a wierd screen – like green
monochrome. Means one of our cables is backward.
As for switching while the machine is on, I do it. Is it bad for the
monitor or computer? Hey, I'm just a software guy – waddya want from me!!
:^} Some more TV Tech type hopefully will pop-in here and tell us both
what is what on that score.
wmc
BTW,
Check Lyben for the adaptors as I didn't see any at Radio shack – just the
cables.
wmc
Thanks for the information. I've kept your message for future
reference. Wouldn't a flickerFixer with DEB be just as compatible with the
productivity mode as the Flicker Free Video?
Leslie,
I believe that there are no differences bewteen what FF will display
directly and what FFV will display directly, contrary to the Amiga World
article (reviewer obviously bought the advert without actually trying it.)
Had I known what I know now, I would probably bought the FF/DEB as I would
not have had to change my MegaChip hi-rise to the new megachip to get it to
work. Plus the FF is cheaper than FFV. I was also disturbed by the number
of "blue wires" on the FFV circuit card. This is usually inidicative of a
design that is not final or stable.
wmc
"…reviewer obviously bought the advert without trying it". What ad are
you talking about? Where did an ad appear in which ICD claimed or implied
that productivity mode came out FFV's port? Hint: there never was such an
advert. ECS compatibility was claimed and does exist. There is nothing
deceptive in this, since FFV does work with both the older Denise and the
new one (not trivial, since the timing is different with the new Denise).
FFV works exactly with the the new Denise as it does with the old one.
THAT is compatibility. Never has it been claimed that FFV will process or
pass through the added graphics modes.
In more than one message you have claimed that ICD deceptively presented
FFV's capabilities. This just isn't true.
Craig
Craig,
If I may join this thread, you're absolutely correct. ICD did nothing
deceptive. The problem is one of semantics. I had also originally
misunderstood. I have the MicroWay flickerFixer. Originally, I asked here
if the FF was compatible with the Super Denise chip. Many people told me
yes. I then got the SD chip, but couldn't use the new Super Hi-Res or
Productivity modes. You have to bypass the FF to use those modes and there
was no way to bypass it.
So yes, the FF and FFV are compatible in that you can use them with the SD
chip, but WITHOUT the new modes, which is the primary reason for getting
the new chip.
I think when people hear that it's compatible, they think it means that
it's compatible with the NEW modes; not that it's compatible with the new
SD chip, but only under the old modes. I know that's what I thought it
meant.
Dom Fontana
I have not implied, I have stated. I asked your tech support on the phone,
and I believe y ou personally at AmiExpo if the FFV was fully compatible
with all 2.0 modes. The reply was a resounding yes. And the answer is
true, but you leave the user to interpert words like those and "full
compatibility" from your brochure to the best of their ability. A statment
of modes it does display and does not display would have been nice.
As I recall the AW review he made the same error I madeL: He assumed that
'compatible' means 'will display' and I think pointed that out as an
advantage over FF. That is the reason I bought your board. I thought I
could run without a switchbox with FFV. Not so.
And as I stated, with the old HI-Rise MegAchip, I would have been better
off with the FF as I would not have had to spend extra to get a new
mega-chip to avoid the conflict with your board. And the FF is cheaper
with no disadvantage that I can see, now that the no productivity mode
issue is clear.
I only want to caution people that with respect to FFV, they need to be
careful about the use of 'compatibility' as now one at ICD will take poins
to insure that the buyer understands the that does not mean "displays".
wmc
Wayne (or I) didn't say anything about an ->AD<- for FFV. There was a
review that compared fF, FFV and the Amiga board with each other. I don't
have the review in front of me but I believe it said something about
passing the productivity mode through the FFV or it might have given that
impression.
If I were to buy a deinterlacer today I would probably buy the FFV but I
just don't have the money to buy a multi-sync monitor and your board right
now. I am a long time ICD customer and do not slam your company. (I'm
still running a BBS with SpartaDOS ane a one meg MIO.) Remember, we were
not discussing an ad. It was a review. Between the three of us I hope we
have cleared up our misconceptions.
That's interesting. I have the new version of MegAChip so FFV should fit
with it nicely. Isn't the price of a FFV the same as a fF with DEB?
Personally, I like the idea of the FFV board better but we'll have to see.
Right now I can't afford anything new for my computer.
My dealer had a deal on FF/DEB combinations that would have put it under
the hood for $35 less than FFV cost me. But then I bought it at Creative
who had one of the highest prices on it at the time.
wmc
Leslie,
I forgot to mention, I decided on the FFV based on that particular
oblservation in AW and confirmation with ICD sales folks. Otherwise I
would have gon with a FF and DEB as I woulkd not have had to swap out my
old MegAchip for the new version that will fit with the FFV. (Creative
computers got me again – "sure they'll fit – done hundreds of 'em" RIGHT!
wmc
That's pretty typical. I have an A1000 presently and just ordered an
A2000, a GVP 120 Mb hard card, a sieko 1440 multi-scan monitor and FFV. I
thought I'd read that that was pretty much the flicker fixer of choice.
Silly me. Could you recomend a flicker fixer that handles all the graphics
modes? Could you tell me where I could get more info on how to mod. the
FFV to use productivity?
I thought I'd read somewhere on here about a 'Power up' program, is there
some way I could have traded in my A1000 for an A2000 or A3000. I think I
might have goofed again. Isn't that typical, ordering all that and then
finding out all sort of goodies afterwards. Thanks for any (and all) help.
-Sean
– Whap!ping from drizzly Banbury, England
FFV is fully compatible with the ECS. Productivity mode does not come out
the FFV output, but it is still available on the computer's RGB port.
Nothing else has ever been stated or implied.
Craig
Oh, and why would anyone want to use productivity mode? It provides
640×480 or 640×960 _interlaced_ with four colors from a palette of 64. It
also slows down the computer due to the bandwidth of the chip ram bus.
Unless you plan to run it interlaced for higher vertical resolution _with
flicker_, it provides nothing you won't get running a overscanned high res
interlaced display processed through a display enhancer except fewer
colors, a smaller palette, and a slower machine. Productivity mode makes
sense only if you don't have a display enhancer or you don't mind a
flickering screen.
Craig
Wayne,
I don't have the Toaster, but it does get inserted into the video slot, so
you have to make sure your display enhancer doesn't use that slot. That's
all I know about the Toaster. Sorry.
Dom Fontana