CompuServe Thread

#3D Studio R2 LOCKED?

21 messages in this thread
#10698From: Evan Yares [WeirdTM]Mar 16, 1992 3:49 PM
Gary: In the past, I've been against dongles. But, in this case, I'm really ambivalent. If I look at the plusses in 3DS R2 (multiple render and CD ROM), the lock is acceptable. And, to be fair, if I want to work on 3DS at home, I can just grab the dongle and not feel like I'm cheating. Evan
#10704From: Yost GroupMar 16, 1992 5:45 PM
Such is life. It sure isn't a perfect world. (but at least we give you the tools to make one of your own! 🙂 – G
#10720From: Jay Parisi [Anim/Gra TM]Mar 16, 1992 10:43 PM
Gary, I know this dongle thing is getting kinda drawn out, but, if I may…. Copy protection doesn't bother me, but dongles do. One dongle is fine, I have no problems. But if all my software was protected in such a way I'd have to keep my computer 3' off the wall. The scene that keeps coming to mind is one of Kevin Krell's computers at A/E/C in '89. there was at least a foot of dongles. The compatablity bothers me also. I have the lit on Rainbow Tech's hardware locks and they tell you right there that you can't have more than one dongle from the same family on the same port. While this isn't a problem up front, who can tell if down the road you buy a product with a dongle in the same family? I know the issues involved and I don't expect a change right away, but, if I can offer one suggestion. Autodesk seems pretty gung ho about CD-ROM. Is there a way you can copy-protect a program on CD-ROM? This would be cool because the problems with dongles are gone and most of the problems with copy protected floppys are too. You wouldn't have to worry about having to make backup copys because of the durability of the CD. You also can only use the program with the CD. At first it might seem too much to ask of people to have them buy a CD-ROM player or else they can't use the program. But when you factor in the cost of these systems, $500 or so seems pidily. Just a thought… Jay
#10724From: Yost GroupMar 17, 1992 1:36 AM
A CD-ROM is the BEST solution for copy-protecting the program. We seriously discussed that idea. But, unfortunately, I think that it's about a year or so ahead of its time. It'll be GREAT when you can COUNT ON everyone having CD's… won't it? – G
#10732From: SyndesisMar 17, 1992 9:04 AM
It might be nice to offer the option of the dongle *or* the CD-ROM. As for CD-ROMs being ahead of their time – the typical 3D Studio system is ahead of its time in general. The fastest processors, the fastest coprocessors, better-than-VGA, more than 8 megs of memory… a $500-700 CD-ROM drive doesn't look like much when compared to the other semi-official system requirements for 3D Studio. It's a very cheap 500 meg drive. Requiring a CD-ROM would also fuel great third-party products – object collections, texture collections, animated tutorials, etc. Autodesk could offer its own OEM drive if they think the dealer channels were worried about it. Next time they ask, keep pushing for this!
#10736From: Yost GroupMar 17, 1992 9:48 AM
You've got to realize that getting into shipping hardware is a big step for a software company. Everything takes time… – G
#10782From: SyndesisMar 18, 1992 8:47 AM
That's the truth. But Autodesk dealers typically build systems, don't they? They're already selling hardware. It could be done with a strategic alliance with a hardware company…
#10785From: Yost GroupMar 18, 1992 10:10 AM
This issue is very complex, and I'm afraid I just don't have time to get into it any more. Sorry. – G
#10955From: Michael F. PitschMar 20, 1992 9:04 PM
Yost, Corel just did it! CD-ROM software, clipart and drive in one package for $595.00. Mike
#10980From: Yost GroupMar 21, 1992 11:43 AM
Pitsch, yup, you've got to hand it to those guys. – G
#10743From: CSA/CAMar 17, 1992 12:33 PM
Hey, let's not forget that you'd probably end up needing 2 drives. One CD-ROM in for the program, perhaps another for 3rd-party textures. Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
#10783From: SyndesisMar 18, 1992 8:50 AM
That's why they invented the CD-ROM carrier. 🙂 I imagine it would only need the CD-ROM once at startup to check the lock, then you'd be free to swap ROMs. On the other hand, I'd think it would be a lot easier to break a CP scheme based on a CD than anything else. Hmm. Maybe not, there's lots of ways to do it. Look at the way the font and clip art companies like Adobe and Agfa have locked discs. There's two keys needed, the fonts on disc are encrypted, and your software on floppy is keyed, and you get a third key when it comes time to "unlock" the fonts you want.
#11092From: Glen PowellMar 23, 1992 10:09 PM
As I just asked the other CD-ROM fiend on the forum, when do I get my $500 check (Grins, okay?) If you're willing to hand out drive caddies, drives, or upgrade checks, I'll take the first spot in line! With tongue firmly in cheek, Glen
#10733From: Jay Parisi [Anim/Gra TM]Mar 17, 1992 9:05 AM
Maybe for R3 you can ditch the dongle and go with CD-ROM. Like you said, it'll be great when everybody has them. Sure would make beta testing expensive though, pressing a bunch of CDs for every release…. Jay
#10748From: Evan Yares [WeirdTM]Mar 17, 1992 12:59 PM
Jay: You forget that Autodesk owns a CD mastering system. Evan
#10744From: CSA/CAMar 17, 1992 12:33 PM
Jay, Of course we now run those dongles off at a right angle off a short cable (I guess we could shoot them up the wall into the ceiling). How about everybody has ONE dongle for their computer. All the software looks at it and installs itself for that machine. You sell the software, you remove and reinstall elsewhere. Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
#11091From: Glen PowellMar 23, 1992 10:09 PM
Jay; Not to sound too reactionary, but…. if $500 is so piddly, when will you send me the check? I'm scraping like heck to get the bucks for 3DS, and you want to add $500 to my overhead. Not nice to hear. The company I work for in my "Clark Kent" life makes access/security systems, and we went to dongle-ing the software after trying other things. I don't like 'em either (only the guys that MAKE them like them), but look at what else has been tried, and has been met with howls of user anguish, every time. IF a PROPER warranty on the dongle (replacement for the LIFE of the PRODUCT, as we offer) is allowed, and the only requirement is the return of a registered, non-cut-up dongle (no "handling charges", processing fees", or other money-squeezing BS), then how can they imporve on it? so that it is cable-mount, rather than end-stacking, so you can flex your dongle (oh, that sounds bad…) Not to jump down your throat, but you hit on a sensitive nerve, there. Glen Powell, Powell Video Postworks
#11126From: Jay Parisi [Anim/Gra TM]Mar 24, 1992 4:36 PM
Well Glen, I do understand where you're coming from. I'm in this myself and pay for everything myself. So far, it's really tight. I only have a 386 with 8 megs of RAM, and a 4 year old NEC CD-ROM drive that is soooooo sllloooowwww I hardly ever use it. I by no means ment for Autodesk to make an abrut change, I was refering to future releases. CD-ROM prices are coming down and the speeds are going up. When you factor in the price of a player with a 486, umpteen megs of RAM, big hard drive, TARGA board or similar, Diaquest, VTR or SVHS, etc. the cost adds up real quick. I'm sorry, but $500 or so bucks compaired to that seems to me pidly. If you lease a system you'll pay only a few dollers more on the payments. After your first job you should have enough to buy one flat out. I'm sorry, I just don't like dongles. I looked into putting them on a program my company was developing so know them from the "inside" as well as out. Besides, I really think CD-ROM is going to hit pretty big in the next year or two and just about everybody will have no matter what. 3DS already requires at least a 386 and co-processor, not to mention a hard drive. Is some guy with a 8086 with dual floppys thinking of doing videos? We'd think nothing of laughing at that. I think in a few years a CD-ROM player in a system will be taken for granted just like hard drives are now. Jay
#11156From: MARTIN G FOSTERMar 24, 1992 10:42 PM
I don't get it. How does putting your software on CD-ROM prevent piracy? If you can read it, can't you copy it or would it have some kind of copy protection which couldn't be broken?
#11200From: Jay Parisi [Anim/Gra TM]Mar 25, 1992 4:52 PM
How do people make copy protected floppys? I don't know, but it's being done. The thing is, people bitch about copy protected floppys because if the floppy gets trashed you're lost, and we all know how often floppys can get trashed. With a CD you'd have to try pretty dam hard to trash it. Sure somebody's gonna figure out how to break the protection and copy it, but people can break dongles to. It's the casual "Hey Bob, can I get a copy of that?" that really ranks up there. Jay
#11213From: MARTIN G FOSTERMar 25, 1992 9:54 PM
One of my music CD's got trashed and I've no idea why. The clear plastic coating has gone misty in places making it unreadable. I certainly didn't spill anything on it or leave it out in the elements. It's the only one that has ever done that, and I own a lot. I have a theory however: the CD is "Purple Rain" by Prince, and I suspect the purple rain might be acidic and somehow leaked into the polycarbonate from the inside causing the deterioration I mentioned..<g>