#Emulators
52 messages in this thread
I'm new here, so this may have already been asked. Assuming equal software
availability, which is the better product for my 2000, an ATonce board or an
AMaxIIplus? Any commentary about emulation abilities will be appreciated.
Diane,
Can I assume you know that ATonce is an MS-Dos emulator and AMaxIIplus is a
Macintosh emulator? So in what sense do you mean better? Like, is it well made
or how well it performs it's intended purpose? There are alternative products
in each catagory, would you be interested in any of those?
I'm interested in if they work as advertised and give me a lot of access to Mac
or IBM software with little hassle. I'd like to hear of other alternatives I
don't know about.
Well, they do totally different things… The Amax II + board emulates
the Mac while the Atonce emulates a PC.
-Jonathan
This I know, but do they work well?
They both work well……………. Each in there own way.
-Jonathan
I have owned the AMAX Mac emulator for over 2 years now, and it works just
great for MS Word, MS Excel, Freehand, PhotoShop, SimEarth, Orion (space
flight simulator), etc.
The cartridge version they first came out with has an extra connector so
you can hook up a Mac drive and use it to read/write LoDensity Mac
floppies. The cart version hooks up to the floppy port on you Amiga.
The latest verion of the software supports MOST hard drive controllers
(never had ANY problems using it on my A3000), and allows you to run Mac
System 7.0.1 (they are working on a patch to support 7.1). The only
software (that I've used) that is incompatible with AMAX is AppleTalk
Remote Access.
I bought the AMAXII+ card when it was announced. The plug-in card offers
some extra benefits over the cartridge. Most important is the addition of
2 AppleTalk compatible ports which allow you to hook your AMAX to a
network of Macs, and share files using 7.x's peer-to-peer file sharing
features, or print to any AppleTalk printer (I've tried this, & it works
just great!).
(Note: the cartridge version DOES support the use of the Amigas serial &
parallel ports, so you can use your modem or printer with AMAX, even if
you don't buy the AMAXII+ card. There is another company [that works
closely with ReadySoft] that offers drivers for a large number of
non-Apple printers, so if you have problems getting your printer to work
there is even a solution for that. [I've never had need for them
myself.])
Another benefit of the AMAXII+ card is that it allows you to use any std
Amiga floppy to read Mac disks (when running the emulator), and it even
supports the Amiga HD floppy to read HiDensity Mac disks (this works GREAT
on my A3000!) There is also a utility that allows you to move files
directly from your Amiga Hard Disk partition to any Mac partition in
seconds (this is invaluable if you have big files to transfer between the
2 platforms).
The only drawback with the setup is that since it is based on early Mac+
<continued>
ROMs, there is no support for color (either on the display, or in the OS),
so you cannot use 32-bit QuickDraw & thus cannot use the QuickTime INIT.
The AMAXII+ card running on my A3000 runs as fast as a Mac IIci, and the
display (since it's B&W) is MUCH faster than on a stock IIci. With an 040
accelerator in my A3000, the Mac runs as fast as a Quadra 900.
If you need to use a Mac, and don't absolutely need color (PhotoShop runs,
but shows a dithered B&W image adequate for most needs – the images DO
retain all their color info), I would STRONGLY recommend buying an AMAX.
There is another emulator called the Emplant, available, but given what I
have heard about the product, I would recommend you buy the ReadySoft
AMAXII (or AMAXII+). Their product has worked well for a number of years,
and their support is quite good.
Oh well, just my $.02,
Erik Flom
Do you still have to order ROMs from a third party? A school in Maine bought
the early AMaxx and ordered ROMs from a company listed by the AMAx bunch. Seems
that the company was dealing in pirated ROMS and the next thing this small
school knew, the FBI was there confiscating the unit under the claim that the
ROMs were evidence for some court case. Guess I'm nervous about having to buy
ROMs now.
Sorry to hear about the shady ROM deal! :^(
(It's this kind of 'boot-legging' attitude that will shut down the Mac
emulator market. Rumor has it that the Emplant is shipped with a Mac
program that reads a Mac ROM into a disk file that can be used with their
product. [Of course, you're not SUPPOSED to use both the emulator & the
Mac at the same time, or else you'd be breaking the licensing agreement on
the ROMs. Pretty cheesy.]
My recommendation is to buy a used Mac+ and pull the chips from that.
There are a couple of places around here offering service for Macs.
One of them offers to repair Mac 128s & Plus's. You might be able to buy a
set from them. Data Field – (408)946-6444. I've never dealt with them, so
you might call around to some local Mac repair shops in your area.
Good Luck,
Erik Flom
There is a program in one of the MAC forums that dumps ROM images from any
MAC… It's not from UU, but one could assume that ROM "files" will be
floating around pretty quick.
-Jonathan
How do they justify such a program in the Mac arena?!? I may have to go
hunt that one down (just to find out who had the b*lls to UL it!)
Maybe it was a way for some company to assure that means were available to
download ROMs, but not have the legal hassle of 'supplying' the program
themselves?
Thanks for the info,
Erik Flom
The program called ROMMIE does more than dump a ROM image.. It also pull
out all of the resources from the ROM in Resedit format. I have found it
an interesting piece of hackery. I have a MAC IIci and fx at work.
I think it's probably some COMP SCI student just showing off there
programming prowess.
-Jonathan
checking for a used or broken machine is an option I didn't know about but will
consider.
OK, let's see.
The AMaxII Plus is a good Mac emulator, fast and reliable, and users like it.
But there's one caveat–no color. And the company doesn't expect to have color
available in the near future, say this year.
The ATonce is an AT emulator, so it's slower and less powerful than the PCs
most people use nowadays. The same company produces a 386 and 486 emulator (the
Golden Gate), with a few of the bugs still being worked out. But they are good
boards. They include VGA monochrome, CGA color and various other monochrome
displays. And you can add a VGA board in the pc slots.
Then there are the Bridgeboards–286 (AT), 386, and the 486 upgrade from EMC.
No VGA unless you buy an extra card.
Marion
CROSSINGS
Newsletter for Amiga/PC compatibility
Your message is a great help since it really lays out all of the different
emulators. The info about the Golden Gate is totally new and something I need
to look into further. Thanks.
I don't think you can really say the Vortex has VGA mono display, since you
have to scroll to view it.
It's like saying your Amiga can do 1024×768……..
Elite MicroComputers – via Whap!
That doesn't bother me particularly. The main thing is that Windows recognizes
it as VGA and runs in VGA monochrome mode. Obviously, it falls a long way short
of VGA color.
Marion
CROSSINGS
Newsletter for the Bridgeboard, etc.
I'm preparing to make the MSDOS compatibility move also. Say we exclude
emulators;I really want to run PageMaker for Windows and CorelDraw for
Windows. How possible/practical is a CBM 2386 plus VGA board? What's the
point of Vortex' board for more bucks. Is a cheap 40Mhz386DX with all the
usual more workable in the end?
Don't forget the EMC 486SLC board…..it is A LOT faster then a 386 40
Elite MicroComputers – via Whap!
I am running all these programs beautifully – with NO PROBLEMS ON A 2386
w/8 meg RAM and an ATI Wonder XL. Zero problems…..Nancy
Diane,
In addition to the previously mentioned differences in the two products, it
ought to be pointed out that any MSDOS hardware is a separate CPU placed in
your Amiga and which will use various parts of your Amiga..but not the 680×0
CPU.
The AmaxII (cartridge or board) uses your Amiga's CPU and many of the other
parts of your Amiga. Thus, if you have an accelerator or high performance
(68030/68040) CPU, you will have a high performance Mac (albeit in black &
white).
My personal opinion is that the AmaxII units make more sense and give better
value. At today's prices a stand-alone MSDOS unit will usually be cheaper.
Bill
Thanks for your opinion. This is the type of help I need in making a decision
on what to buy.
I would have to agree regarding Amax2.5 vs any one of the many PC emulators. I
am currently running Amax2.5 with a GVP 68030 50 MHz Combo board and achieving
Mac Plus Plus compatibility at better than Mac II speeds. There is no
difficulty runninh Microsft Word or Excro soft Word or Excel or many other
applications. Amax 2.5 is System 7 compatible. Problems 1) No colour
compatibility eg no Qiicktime 2) Macintosh disks cannot be read in 880K Amiga
drives. Yhje solution is to buy aan external low dwnsity Mac drive or wait for
an internal HD Amiga drive (the likes of which we have been waiting for for
months in Australia !!!)
Hope this helps your choice
PS there is no Amiga spreadsheet program the equal of Excel…
David: your input is certaintly helpful although I am envious of an 030 at 50
MHz.
I have two A-Max units — one on an A2000HD with an '030 accelerator and
one on an plain old A500 with a 7.14 mhz 68000 and 4 megs of RAM. The
latter A-Max runs surprisingly fast and is comparable to a plain old Mac
Plus, only with a bigger screen. You can do nicely with A-Max even without
an accelerator. Note that a meg of chip RAM is preferrable to 512K of
chip, for improved compatibility reasons.
Emplant seems to be getting closer to a debugged state. If it does, I
predict lots of folks will be selling their A-Max units complete with ROMs
to migrate over. Then there could be some good deals on the used market. I
just bought the second A-Max used and complete with 128K ROMs for 100
bucks. They usually go more than that, however.
What is this Emplant being mentioned. How will it be better? Also, is there an
Amiga emulator for Mac units?
There is no way for the MAC to emulate an Amiga. The Amiga has too many
propietary coprocessors, etc.. The MAC is easy to emulate.. The MAC ROM,
CPU, and some software code….
The Emplant is a new emulator that was met with some doubt when first
introduced, but appears to be working and gets better with every software
release. It is a *COLOR* MAC emulator using the MAC IIx ROMS. It is a
hardware/software solution.
-Jonathan
this sounds very interesting. is it difficult to install or use?
Emulation boards for the Amiga are easy to install. (Installation
software and a plug-in board.) As for use… once they are running, they
are the full fledged thing.
-Jonathan
I don't have Emplant, so I'm passing on the observations of others. It's
another, newer Mac emulator for the Amiga from another maker. This one
runs in 16 colors on a conventional Amiga or 256 colors on an AGA Amiga.
Plus, unlike AMAX, it multitasks. However, the Emplant is brand new and
still going through early bug fixes. Some people (see Ben's message to me
earlier in this topic) are running it fine. Others find it quirky on their
systems. I think it's about the same price as AMAX (but probably you'll
need the newer, more expensive Mac ROMs for it). The manufacturer (forget
the name; someone help out) has said a $299 Emplant version on a PCMCIA
"credit card" for plugging into the A1200 may be available in the near
future. That would be a killer product!
Me, I don't need color that much, although multitasking would be nice, as
would the ability to get at Quicktime (you need the newer ROMs for that;
AMAX uses the older 128K or ancient 64K ROMs). Me, my AMAX units are paid
for and functioning without trouble. So until the software passes me by,
I'll stick with 'em.
The company's name is (ducking) Utilities Unlimited, and yes I'm running it but
keep in mind I only have two pieces of S/W to work with and it did take them
MONTHS to get a 4000 but when they did they had software for it to work on the
A4000 in 3 days. It's still not perfect yet (needs to have Mac disk reads
directly, Sybil converter is a huge pain), but it's getting there.
Ben, Leigh's Computers
will emplant also run Mac games? Also, what is Quicktime?
I suggest you talk to Ben in this topic, who actually has an Emplant and
could answer your questions better. Quicktime is a Mac routine to run
little video animations with sound. It's nifty, but it's nothing an Amiga
can't do.
Spectre is a mac game that runs on the Emplant in upto 256 colors, no sound
though.
Ben, Leigh's Computers
I have an Emplant on my 4000 running in 256 colors, it's neat, it'll be even
better when they have High density drive support! (specter, and photoshop are
the only real programs I have).
Ben, Leigh's Computers
So how well is it running? Are you actually running Spectre? I have
Spectre on my MAC IIci at work and play with people on our network. If
the Emplant will run Spectre in color with the Emplant over a network,
that means a major step in the right direction!
-Jonathan
It works and yes it runs Spectre in 2, 16, and 256 color modes. It recognizes
Appletalk but I'm not connected to a Mac at home to try it.
Ben, Leigh's Computers
Excellent!!!!
I may want to get an Emplant just to play Spectre with my friends at
work!
-Jonathan
Well, do special oredr them, BUT the software still needs some work (they do
seem to be working hard though, frequent upgrades and the like).
Ben, Leigh's Computers
Hi Ben…
Is it running on the A4000 in the store? Can I take a look at it?
Marion
CROSSINGS
Newsletter for Amiga/PC compatibility
My A4000 has finally travelled back home with me, but if you want I can arrange
something for you Marion (I could haul it back in for you to see).
Ben
Ben…
Is PhotoShop useable on Emplant? It is the only program I would want to run
also, besides HyperCard stacks that we use at work. This is starting to get
exciting. How much are the MacII roms costing?
..Carl
Yes Photoshop does work on it, When I last checked Mac II roms were between
250-600 dollars, depending on what mood you got Shreeve systems in when they
were called.
Ben Leigh's computers
Thanks Ben…
The cost of the roms is freightening but then I am spoiled – got my MAC 128k
ROMS from a brother-in-law who repairs MACS. One of the feet had been broken
off one of the ROMS and he just soldered it back on and gave the pair to me.
How much is the Emplant selling for?
Thanks again.
..Carl
There are 3 different levels of Emplant ranging from about $249.00 to about
$349.00
Ben, Leigh's Computers
Yep, I'm waiting for the high density support before I order the Emplant
for the 4000. Really don't want to mess around with that Sybil drive
unless I have to. So how well is the emulator working on the 4000? What
kind of speed do you get when in the 256 color mode?
//
\X/ John – K7KB (Flying via AutoPilot)
The speed is as fast as say a IICI in 256 colors alot faster in 16.
Ben
Ben,
I have a 4000 and would be interested in Emplant as it appears to be
maturing. But here's the big question. Are the newer MAC ROMS available.
If so where and for how much?
…AutoPilot Engaged…
-Paul-
see my earlier reply on this one
Ben
Legitimate Mac 128K ROMs (the kind used in A-Max — it can also use the
64K ROMs but why would you want to?) are available used from 4-5 sources.
Computer Shopper carries ads for 'em. You'll also see ROMs being sold in
the classifieds here. Price has gone up about 25% in the past year or two,
suggesting that the supply is tightening up. You should be able to get a
good set for under 200 bucks, maybe much less. If you're leery, buy with a
credit card, dispute the bill if they're not actual Apple ROMs. You could
take 'em to an Apple dealer and they could spot fakes. Too bad they won't
sell them direct.
you're right about the inability to purchase direct ROMs, but then again they
kept the FBI pretty busy until last Friday.