#AMIGA Video Digitizin'
53 messages in this thread
What would be my best approach for digitizing real time 30fps video to my
hard disk? Should I wait for the DMI Video capture board? I really can't
afford single frame digitizing, it would too slow for my requirements!
Thanxs.
Jorge Escobar/MEGABYTE PRODUCTIONS (..and AutoPilot, of course!)
Jorge, As far as I know the DMI Editmaster (reportedly available early March)
is the only way to digitize full color, full size video in real time. According
to Desktop Video World, there are boards available for the other platforms
(PC,Mac) but none will digitize full color, full size, 30 fps yet. All of them
sacrifice something (less colors, small window, or less fps). Maybe somebody
else here knows better than I do but to my knowledge, we have to wait for the
DMI Editmaster to get full color, full size, 30 fps video capture to HD.
Terry Tabor
When is the DMI EditMaster finally shipping and what will be the price?
Anybody knows this? (I have a strange feeling that Lou Wallace is going to
jump in the thread anytime now).
Jorge Escobar/MEGABYTE PRODUCTIONS (..and AutoPilot, of course!)
I just called Anti-Gravity products – they have an ad in VTU listing the
EditMaster for $2240. (Phone # 310-393-6650).
As of 3-1-93, the product has not shipped, and they missed their last
scheduled release date which was last week sometime.
Anti-Gravity did say they were taking pre-orders though, so it looks like
it'll be out Real Soon Now . . .
Keep On Toastin'
Erik Flom
Well, so far DMI has not yet shipped…and they have missed yet another ship
date. DTV World's issue 3 has compression in the Spotlight, and unfortunetly
DMI wasn't there… which means no Amiga hardware compression was present. The
Mac's DigitalFilm has had its share of problems too – having been recalled and
shipments stopped until later this month while they fix some bugs.
Lou
>>DTV World's issue 3 has compression in the Spotlight…<<
AAAARGH! Lou! I called IDG about two months ago ordering that they
subscribe me to one year of DTV World and haven't received *a* copy
yet!!!
If you can, please pass my name (J.Enrique Escobar) to subscription
services and see what has happened to my order. I will greatly appreciate
it!
Jorge Escobar/MEGABYTE PRODUCTIONS (..and AutoPilot, of course!)
I doubt anything has happened Jorge. Issue 2 will be hitting the newstands in
about a week…Issue 3 in early May. Issue 2 has 3D as a focus of the Spotlight
section, plus there is a review of Alias Sketch 1.5 and a preview of Lightwave.
And the Digital Gallery is sporting some impressive 3D art. Other articles
include: Powers of Persuasion – Multimedia Presentation Packages ABC's of CG's
– A look at computer based character generators Creating A Demo Reel – Some
good hints on putting your work on tape Choosing A VTR – What to look for when
buying a VTR Parts Of Speech – Professional audio editing advice Tasteful
Transitions – When to use fancy transitions, and when not to. Reviews include:
Video Blaster, WinStorm, Graphics Ultra Pro, Video Surge MoviePak, VideoSpigot
for Windows, OZ, Toaster Cozzy, Y/C Plus, One Stop Music Shop, Mediamaker 1.5,
Cakewalk Pro for Windows, Personal TBC III, Personal V-Scope, RC-2000 Remote
Control And teh usual assortment of columns, opinions, news and info.
Lou Wallace
::Issue 2 will be hitting the newstands in about a week::
Thanxs for the response, Lou, I thought you had Issue 3 on the street
already!… I guess I'll keep on waiting.
BTW, (I've asked this question to about 735 persons here on CIS)…
errr… are you planning to attend WOC NYC, Lou?
Jorge Escobar/MEGABYTE PRODUCTIONS (..and AutoPilot, of course!)
In case you DIDN'T ask me or I didn't answer Midgard Graphics will be
their at WOC probably only 1 day, Saturday.
>>…Midgard Graphics will be at WOC Saturday…<<
Peter, will you be in a conference or will you be in another company's
stand?
Jorge Escobar/MEGABYTE PRODUCTIONS (..and AutoPilot, of course!)
Actually I'll just be wandering around Gawking at the new Goodies and
Fighting the Urge to take out my Wallet hehehehehehehehe I'm trying to get
T-Shirts made with my Company Logo on em so that if folks from CI$ here
and Genie users I chat with will be able to recognize me on Sight or at
least one of my Assosciates who'll HOPEFULLY be able to point me out to
em.
I don't know if I'll be there. Amiga World will have a full complement
attending, and they can give me a report when they get back. I'll be in San
Francisco the week before, and off to NAB the week after… So I might just
hang around the office for a change! Lou
Lou, exactly what will you be doing in S.F.??? I live in the area and if
there is some type of conference, show, etc. that I should know about, I
would appreicaiate any info. If it is not business related, well, enjoy
yourself on your trip.
-Jonathan
I plan on attending InterMedia, a CDROM/Multimedia show in San Jose. Plus I
will be visiting a couple companies in SF area… Lou
Lou,
When and where is this show in San Jose? I live in Milpitas (a San Jose
suburb)…
-Jonathan
Just got the first issue of my Subscription to DTVW, Unfortunatey it was
the premiere issue which I already had. Oh well, a buddy at work enjoyed
it anyway. Guess I'll be getting issue 2 soon then eh?
Very soon. Authors are getting theirs already… which are sent from the
printers. Subs should be hitting in a week or so. Lou
Thanx for the info Lou. BTW saw the Ad on Inside Space about the Anim
Contest. Sounds Cool. Can't wait to see the results. Maybe I'll actually
Submit something for once.
Lou,
does DTV World have a Canadian distributor? Which one?
Blaq!
I'm sure we do Charles, but I don't know who. You might call the office and ask
for Desktop Video World circulation. They could tell you. The number is 603 924
9471. Lou
Jorge:
I'll called DMI today asking the same question. The answer they gave me was
that the EditMaster will be available in about 6 weeks and they will be showing
it at NAB. They suggested that the board be installed in a 3000. Other hardware
needed: SCSI II controller card, A 1.2 maxtor drive and a SunRize sound card.
Dusty Powers
…Now… I wonder if DMI's EditMaster will be a substitute for DVI… I
mean, if you have the power to show some video clips for an interactive
training project, will we be able to forget about LaserDiscs in our
applications? Lou, what do you think? Is it possible we use EditMaster for
interactive applications running video segments completely from the Amiga
using, say, AmigaVision?
Jorge Escobar/MEGABYTE PRODUCTIONS (..and AutoPilot, of course!)
It's possible Jorge, but so far only a theoretical idea. Until the Amiga gets a
shipping, working full motion digotal recorder and playback system, along with
serious digital video editing software it won't happen. But – and I am quite
confident about this – it will happen, it will happen this year, and it will
happen on every major computer platform. In fact, the time is coming when
manipulating digital video will be as commonplace as manipulating graphics,
text and sound. Lou
Lou, as for this year… how will the Amiga compare to other platforms in
terms of quality and speed in these Video Digitizing boards and which
resolution would we be talking about? (in the Amiga) VHS resolution?
Jorge Escobar/MEGABYTE PRODUCTIONS (..and AutoPilot, of course!)
I can't compare the Amiga digitizing cards to anything – yet. Since none have
shipped it's not something that can be answered. Plus – I don't find it very
useful, although it might be interesting – to compare applications on different
platforms. Unless you are shopping for a computer to do some application it
isn't useful. And most people already have made up their mind on what system
they want to use. For them, it's what is best for the system they have already
that counts. Lou
>>…And most people already have made up their mind on what system they
want to use…<<
I don't know if I get the message. Personally I think people will move to
the platform that offers the best solution for the video digitizing board.
(I for one will be very interested that my clients are satisfied with the
results I give them. If I can do better in another platform, I would
certainly look for the other platform.) The point is that I think the
Amiga should be (I repeat *should* be) the best video digitizing platform
in the market when these boards appear. After all the Amiga has always
been video-applications oriented.
Jorge Escobar/MEGABYTE PRODUCTIONS (..and AutoPilot, of course!)
Well, I'm a long time Amigian, but I don't think you should be so confident of
that Jorge. The Amiga itself is great, and a strong video machine. But, and
this is a big but, that is no guarantee that a third party board will be the
best of the best. It may turn out to be true, but we will have to wait and see.
Meanwhile, the other platforms are getting second generation products out,
along with decent digital eiting software. It isn't the Amiga that is a
problem, its the fact here isn't anything out yet. But I am hopeful the DMI
card will be everything they have claimed, and hopeful that the reason it has
taken longer then they planned is because they are making sure that is true. I
also hope to see more Amiga full motion capture cards show up soon.
Lou
Jorge-
It's not as grand as it appears. The Amiga has lost it's edge as the Video
platform of choice. You're going to see an unbelievable crush of products
and support for the PC and MAC. The Amiga will not fair well.
Grass Valley Products is the premiere video hardare company. They saw the
need for computer related gear coming for the desktop and had to decide on
what platform to support. They spent a lot of time looking at the three
platforms. The Mac was too expensive. The PC had a huge installed base and
are dirt cheap.
They did look at Commodore carefully and decided that the future of the
Amiga was questionable. These are smart guys and many of the other
developers are coming up with the same conclusions.
The Amiga will always have a place in the budget oriented home user, but
the state of the art and best products will only be available on another
platform.
–Paul < Motorola Inside >
I've heard that all before (Amiga relegated to home). Glad to inform you
that it's all propaganda bunk. There have been prophets who have, for
years, told Amiga users how their elephant was going to role over and
crush any dissidents who dared to stake a TV claim with an Amiga.
Well, here we are, foot in the door of major production companies in the
US and Canada, with the tools that have embarrassed the rest into the old
computer wars. I'm a strong believer in the David and Goliath story. PC's
may be cheaper, but you are still getting less, no matter how you slice
it. Once these companies see how they don't have to dice up their DOS
settings every time they add something new, I think the Amiga WILL stay
on, and it won't be in Johnny's room, closed to the world, it will be
there toe to toe with the other platforms. Simply because of simple users
like me, who refuse to cave-in when a weatherman starts up with the old
storm warnings.
Also, you mentioned that there will be cards coming for the PC's and
Mac's. Well, I have a computer (A3000T) with the slots to use them.
Oh, and because NewTek had the insight to make networking the Toaster for
both Mac's and PC's another priority, makes it seem unlikely that the
established Mac/PC Toaster base will be inclined to stomp out the little
wonder for a $10,000+ card.
The preview of Lightwave 3D 3.0 boasts features that are not available on
any platform at any price. And won't be, even when that "flood" comes.
Put away your umbrellas people, the weatherman isn't always right. *8>
Vance>>> (Enjoying the sunny days)
Paul,
<<…The Amiga has lost it's edge as the Video platform of choice…<<
I don't think so. More and more people I know are using the Video Toaster.
Lou Wallace just spoke here of the new Toaster (which won't be called
"Toaster" it seems) which, if it's such a great success as the first one,
it will be a real smasher. I do agree that there will be external "boxes"
which will use any computer as a host, but I don't think companies like
Grass Valley should miss the point that there are thousands of Toasters
being used in industrial/corporate video production houses. I think of all
the platforms the Amiga/Toaster combo is the *only* choice in the
so-called Desktop Video arena to produce usable results. Why there is no
comparable product as of now in the other platforms which won't use the
Amiga as a slave machine? Tough, huh?
If state of the art video involves charging my clients $10,000 per
finished minute of video, I won't even take a look at those toys. I want
solutions which offer good quality, fastness in response&production time
and a budget which will permit my clients make a comunicational campaign
or a set of various training videos, *NOT* the ultimate 30 seconds Star
Wars IV…
…And if the companies say that the future of the Amiga is
questionable… well, it's a pity that the future of Amigan developers and
professional users are brighter than ever in this moment… (I'm getting a
little tired of such bold statements)…
Jorge Escobar/MEGABYTE PRODUCTIONS (..and AutoPilot, of course!)
I can already see you have gotten quite a few replies but I will add my
little 2 cents worth.
> The Amiga has lost it's edge as the Video platform of choice.
This has been said before and the Amiga is still here.
There are many things that are moving the Amiga platform forward like
LightWave 3.0, Real3D 2.0, Imagine, ect… and as for hardware there is
the Toaster, Opalvision, IV-24, the soon to be released Vivid24 and
EditMaster. You may also want to look at the achievements the Amiga has
been doing recently, Babylon 5, Music Awards, SeaQuest(soon), ect… The
improvements made to those `beta' versions will soon come to the end user
which will keep pushing us forward.
I may agree with you that CBM needs to improve its direction and it looks
like it is. The New Amiga line is lower priced than previous Amigas, eg.
A600, A1200, A4000, and are more expandable.
I also agree that the PC and MAC platforms will share their piece of the
pie but that doesn't mean the Amiga will be left out.
<<< Tony D. Tracer >>>
Paul,
There was a long write-up in Variety on the "Commodore Amiga" wich "runs
the NewTek Video Toaster board". It said that the the Toaster allowed the
produces of a show called Sea Quest that will appear in the fall to do a
show for about a million per episode with special effects that otherwise
would have nixed the show. Because of the cost effectiveness of the
Amiga, Paramount is purchasing 30 amiga/Toaster combos with a NewTek ASDG
combo modifed by (or per the spec of) Joe Conti to parallel ligtwave
rendering on 14 Amigas. It also said that the Amiga was about 20% slower
than a silicon graphics but that would change in the next few months. It
also pointed out that the Amiga/Toaster workstation was one tenth the cost
of the SG machine with comperable functionality.
So the Amiga will never be a giant killer in the general purpose machine
or DTP world. But it appears that Silicon Graphics may be in some serious
trouble in the entertainment graphics world.
wmc – via Autopilot!
Jorge,
the Amiga _can_ handle interactive applications running realtime video
segments, right now. All you need is a videodisc player genlocked into the
Amiga. The player will search to any spot on the disc in an instant, and is
controlled by simple ASCII commands sent thru the RS-232 port. AmigaVision has,
and has always had, videodisc support.
Blaq!
Charles,
I was refering to interactive applications running realtime video
segments *from* the computer. I want a more express way to deliver video
than sending my masters to a laserdisc pressing company with *one* month
of advance…
Jorge Escobar/MEGABYTE PRODUCTIONS (..and AutoPilot, of course!)
Number one on your concerns should be "How am I gonna put that much data
on my hard drive?". #2 concern is "How am I gonna get a disk fast enough
to accept data at that rate?". After you've resloved those two things, I
suspect you'll have no problems.
i just got a Micropolis 670 meg SCSI II drive in anticipation of
getting a DMI Editmaster. The guys a GVP and DMI say I will probably
have to get atleast an A3000 for a decent transfer rate (3 MPS).
With my 2000 the drive will only go about 1 MPS, I guess this is a
good time to find out.
Editmaster looks like it will still be a few months :^(
Any idea how much 3/4" Quality footage you'll be able to stuff onto that
670 meg HD?
I think about fifteen minutes of 3/4" quality, or about 30 for VHS.
I think I lost a fax I got from DMI that had ALL the info. but
I will try to find the exact specs.
I imagine by the time Editmaster comes out I'll have it stuffed with
images and anim frames. Next I'll need tape backup……
Just wait till you see Impulse's EditMaster killer.
It's 'spose to be pretty neat.
–Paul
Paul,
I doubt that Impulse's black box is going to be an EditMaster killer.
From what I've heard, it doesn't grab video which makes it a one way
device as opposed to EditMaster's two way functioning. It might cost a few
sales though for people who need to go only one way if it's cheap enough.
-Richard
Thanx for the Editmaster info John. I imagine if I got a 1.2 or 1.7 gig HD
I'd be better off for using the Editmaster. I'm mostly interested in
S-Video quality more than 3/4" quality since most of my stuff is for
Hobbyists anyway.
According to DMI's promotional literature from Nov. '92:
You should be able to get about 330 SECONDS of 3/4" (non-SP) 'quality'
video onto a 670MB HD. This is based on a compression ratio of 15:1.
They claim that 5:1 or 10:1 compression 'compares to Betacam' in quality.
(Note, this doesn't sound like Betacam SP.)
Since the product remains 'vaporware', there are no warranties, expressed
or implied, I am merely repeating what is on DMI's 'promotional
literature'
It's still not very usefule for non-linear editing, but it would be great
for all of us 3-D animators who are too cheap to buy a single frame
controller. (At the highest quality, you could store 8 seconds of
animation in only 50MB!, AND be able to play it back in real-time, in
'broadcast quality', for output to the recording medium of your choice.)
Here's hoping it ships. . . .
Keep On Toastin'
Erik Flom
Erik,
DMI has suggested Edit Master, 1gig HD, SCSI II, & A3000 or A4000 – to be
minimum needed for broadcast quality. They were hoping to ship the
beginning March.
Why are you doubtful of the non-linear editing capability?
Joe Maulucci >>> AP ENGAGED
Ack, I *never* said I was leery of the EditMaster's non-linear editing
capability. I may have indicated some doubts as to whether it'll ship with
the first board, or whether it'll be comparable to other systems like the
Avid sys for the Mac. I am, however, *hoping* that DMI does release a nice
little non-linear editor for the Amiga.
New Media (Mar '93) has a nice 6-page article about video post tools for
the Amiga, and it gets mention as the only one currently available for the
Amiga (and, unfortunately, that's true. :^(. (They're going to have
another article all about the Toaster in next months issue!)
I would really like to see one of these boards in operation. they sound
like my dreams come true (at least this year, as the Toaster was the
answer last year. :^).
Keep On Toastin'
Erik Flom
Thanx for the Editmaster info Erik. Hows yer Toaster? Still acting up?
BTW I saw those images of yours in VTU, they were GORGEOUS. I am Highly
impressed.
Thanks,
My Toaster is just fine (no problems since it fried the day after
installing the 040 in my A3000.)
As for the 040, that's another story. I've had problems with it locking up
(only when the case is on) after an hour or 2 of constant use. The
original board went to GVP twice. The second time, they kept it for a
week, and then sent me a totally different board (as per my written
request). I've had that one in the machine for a few hours now, and no
problems yet . . . (Here's hoping.)
Thanks for the compliments! I was pleasantly surprised to see them in
there myself. I may upload some images to CIS of the exterior of the
museum & the main hall when I get time. (The Van Gogh wing is probably the
most finished of the four wings of the main hall. The main hall looks
nice, but I've been watching lots of Batman (the animated series), and
there are a number of improvements I need to make to the overall Deco
style before I'll be happy with it. [I've finally figured out how to do
the interior of the skylight in the correct style!]
(Caption seen on license plates being made by convicts in one episode:
'Gotham – The Dark Deco State')
Now that my 040 is back, I have enough CPU muscle to make the changes &
not have to take a coffee break while it renders out previews! :^)
Keep On Toastin'
Erik Flom
You mean there's a Whole EXTERIOR to this Set of images? Ewww haven't you
been busy hehehehehehe. They were incredible. Glad to hear yer toaster is
fine.
Were these images released to the PD or did you retain the copyright?
Reason I ask is cuz Steve Menzies mentioned on the Fido Amiga Video Area
that CBM was using a COPYRIGHTED image of his in their ad's and Posters
WITHOUT his permission and he was ANNOYED to say the least. I don't blame
him in the least. But It seems CBM has since ceased using the image in
their ad's
I never really considered keeping a copyright on the still images, as they
are only a small piece of the whole animation. (Frankly, I wouldn't mind
if C= plastered it all over their ads, but I could see as to how it would
be nice if they asked FIRST.)
I guess you could say they are Freely Distributable, but I retain rights
for commercial use. (Yeesh, don't tell me I have to put a disclaimer ON
the image itself. Maybe if I just included a text file when uploading
it.)
Thanks again,
Keep On Toastin'
Erik Flom
P.S. After 24 hours with the replacement 040, and no crashes yet . . .
Seems that I did the right thing by asking for a whole new board, since
GVP was never able to duplicate my problem with the original accelerator.
(I'm so confident, I've even screwed the case back on. [I figure if it
didn't crash after that, my luck just might hold!] :^)
Glad yer replacement 040 seems to be functioning fine. Problem with
Copyright notices in text files is they usually get DELETED from an
archive when someone else Uploads it to another BBS. In the Case of Steve
Menzies image his Copyright info was CROPPED out of the Picture
itself!!!!
No doubt one would need a big, fast hard drive to make serious use of the
DMI Digital Editmaster. But don't forget that the Editmaster saves frames
in JPEG format, which cuts down the storage size considerably.
Vic, I am aware of the amount of data a 30fps full frame anim is gonna
take. That is why I want to get the DMI (seems it will compress the data
to get the video at 30fps).
Now the problem is: will the digitized video that the EditMaster
originates be capable of being converted to a Anim playable by other
applications like ScalaMM or AmigaVision?
Jorge Escobar/MEGABYTE PRODUCTIONS (..and AutoPilot, of course!)
As far as I know the DMI Editmaster is currently the ONLY Digitizer
Capable of Sustained 30 FPS digitizing.