#Toaster Reality
23 messages in this thread
OK. I am convinced that if I want to go into Desktop Video, I need to go
with an Amiga. Clearly, the PC at this point is not the medium for this
Endeaver.
Now this question:
What other type of equipment am I going to need to produce decent
looking output? Do I need a super high end Video Camera? What about a
super high end Editor? What is the best TBC to purchase? Should one go
with the TBC that NewTek sells, or go with another?
At this point, any information would be great. I am just not sure
what I need in the way of additional equipment to get on my way. All I
currently own is a Sony 401 Camcorder, and a 4 head VCR. This equipment is
consumer level. Can I utilize this stuff in any way in the scheme of
things?
Thanks,
Marty
What sort of stuff do you want to do?
There is a LOT that you can do with just the equipment you have,
plus a Toaster and a TBC. The one NewTek sells is the Personal TBC II from
DPS, and it's excellent.
I would recommend an acclerator, as well – you can get a 68030 for
under $1000, and it speeds up graphics creation by a factor of 10…
I want to second what Lee has to say about the TBC and comment on the need
for an excellerator.
We just installed two Amigas for the Public Access cable TV production
facility I manage, one equipped with Toaster & a Personal TBC II. With
this set up you can to do almost everything you could hope to and more.
(I've got some serious concerns that the capabilities of the Toaster, et
al, are actually beyond what many Public Access producer/hobbiests can
comprehend or use.)
The excellerator will only be needed, IMHO, if you're going to get real
serious about creating video graphics. But if you are serious about
generating images beyond character generator titles and such, it will be
essential.
I have no hesitations in recommending it with regards to image/video
quality or capability (with the understanding that some digitized video
effects [DVEs] are somewhat crude in comparison to the same effect done by
gear costing many many times more than an Amiga/Toaster/TBC combination).
If you can cope with the rather limited documentation/tutoring material,
you can't go wrong. And I'd bet any question you had on how to do what
could be answered right here on this forum or by phone.
In summery. . . "go for it!" and enjoy.
PS you might want to check out the thread re PC version of toaster to
control the effects too.
Well, the new manual is a BIG improvement, I think…plus James and
I will answer any pf your questions here…
Well Lee <James and I will answer any pf your questions here…> can either
one of you give a definitive answer to when and how e will actually see
Toaster 2.0 software upgrades. I realize you are getting into this support
gig a little late, but "there's a kind of a hush" (Carpenters 1973) and a
damnned puzzling one at that regarding the pushed back dates. By this time
the registered owners should have at least received written notification of
upgrade procedures. Nobody I know has as of yet, can you let us in on it,
or are you sworn to secrecy (ignorance) or are they waiting cor some kind
of international currency shift, CES, What gives?
Frank
No secret at all. The 'Traz boys were adding features (and damn
good ones) when they should have been fixing bugs…no complaints from me
on that end because the features are awfully damn good [C [C [C [D
Registered owners should be getting notices in the next 3 or 4
days, including a VERY impressive tape showing some of the new features…
Oh– the other reason for the delay is simple – the holiday season.
Slowed everything dowm, mainly by closing a lot of support services…
Is this another new tape? Or the Revolution tape?
Steve
It's brand new…
Do you know if NewTek sells this tape seperately, and if so, how much it
costs?
Steve
I'm not sure if it's available seperatly…you might call NT at
(800) 843-8934…
Just got the tape today, nice job, no Nordine backward pseudo-satanic over
cool announce tracks, just blood & guts demo edited to music. I have my
order going by phone early am Monday. If they are in fact shipping product,
I should get mine by next week sometime.
Frank
WOW, toaster sn #1950 reporting on the latest Demo tape of Toaster System
2.0 – yowsa dudes, awesome stuff, stoked to the MAX, does this really cost
only $2K+?
Actually I'm glad to be here where the S/N ratio is a bit more like
reality.
WHY are all these dudes fighting about what cpu is best a few conferences
above, eyech, silly.
Shoot, lemma check my computer, lets see here, SONY, SONY, SONY, SONY, TEK,
TEK, BCD, SONY, SONY, SONY, Panasonic, SONY, DPS, SVS, SVS, GVG, GVG, darn,
now where did that computer go, I know I saw it over by the Edit
Controller, just past the TBC!
NewTek, I want more neat stuff; including –
Hardware based compression
Non-pixelated warp whizzies
Open Architecture for programmable effects – E-MEM etc.
Another great demo tape…
Randy,
Glad to have you along for the ride, I don't work for Newtek, but I
understand that the pixelated wharp whizzies are a limitation of hardware.
Good squeeze and compression effects would have the same hardware barrier,
at least in THIS current version of toaster hardware (a limitation of A/D
curcuitry). My intuition tells me that Newtek is not going to rush to
market any new hardware so long as there is such brisk sales of current
product and no real competition for the market at current price levels. For
those of us who absolutely need that kind of high res, the most affordable
solution would probably be the Alta Pictoris, at about 6k, and even with
the pictoris you need TBCs and a willingness to fry your brain with their
watrped sense of what a control panel should be. I have heard rumors of a
couple of former Amiga design guys working on a board software combo that
will be programmable (ie; not that user friendly) to handle tasks like
compression but only in a single channel configuration. Dual channel would
need two of their boards. Target price as I understand it will be between
$1500-$2000 per board, and as far as I know, it would not be able to
co-exist simultaneously with toaster in operation in the same machine, so
tack on more bucks for an additional Amiga.
Frank
Thanks for the great info Frank. Compression is especially an exciting
area for non-linear. Have you read of the new DV-I MAC based system to be
introduced this spring, 45 minutes of VHS quality on a 350MB hard disk for
around $5K for the boards and software. Yowsa, and not soon enough, I hate
shuttling tape.
Randy, I was actually refering to "squeeze" type compression, which is a
totally different beast altogether. "Squeeze" in the context I was using,
is when you shrink the size of the inset picture, while retaining it's
resolution in the reduced aspect ratio. Toaster mimicks the effect by using
small groups of pixels manipulated together to form checkers of the
original image. The high end units have resolution that would be considered
an order of magnitude above and beyond toaster's current capabilities, even
with the 2.0 software, it's limitations are in hardware.
Frank
Frank, who told you that the limits were in the hardware? I was told by
Newtek, more than once, that it could and would be fixed. If not in 2.0,
than down the road. Do you really know that it cannot be fixed? If so,
please elaborate so I can call Newtek back.
Again, remember tat the Toaster is a transistion device as far as
the DVEs go. The goal of the Toaster wasn't to replace the ADO or
Abekas..it's goal was to give users 90% of the capabilities of a network
post suite for 10% of the cost of one of the expensive boxes you usually
find in that suite. There's no effects device in the Toaster's price range
that does what the Toaster does, even leaving out the Paint, CG, 3D, still
store, color effects and other functions.
Hey E-MEM great and since we're wishing…
How about MASTER BLACK (the last thing downstream) so that if you have
something KEYED (or CG'ed) over a video source (or the other Frame Buffer)
you could fade the whole thing to or from black.
The ability to do a transition while you have a key or cg up would also
help (I mainly produce commercials), of course that may require two more
busses.
– Joe Maulucci – Accadia Electronic Arts – Buffalo, NY
There are rumours to the effect that there will be a key out for
the Toaster…
If I hear Nordine do that number again I'm gonna puke! What does he do,
crank out generic, 'Insert Company Name Here (and echo of company name
here)' sound tracks and market them by direct mail? Thats probably the
fourth one I've heard.
Excuse me, I digress, Mark C.
via Whap!
Ken Nordine's son Ken is Commodore's regional manager in the Midwest
office. You get upset about strange things, no? Do you get mad when you
see the same actors over and over in different movies, too? 🙂
Perhaps I voice my opinions a bit too stridently at times. I don't mean to
knock the man, just the repetition of the repetition 🙂
"Do you get mad when you see the same actors over and over in different
movies, too?"
Mad? no, but I do get bored when I see the same actors play the same roles
over and over in different movies!
As for Ken Jr.'s Commodore affiliation, I've been waiting for a part from
Commodore for OVER TWO MONTHS so thats not a real strong recomendation at
this point. Perhaps some of my apparently sub-concious hostility 😉 could
be attributed to the fact that when I heard my first Ken Nordine, voice in
the back of my head soundtrack, I was sitting in a roomful of fellow video
professionals from all over my region (the midwest) watching a (IMHO)
botched and amateurish Commodore presentation of the video and multimedia
capabilities of the Amiga. It confirmed everything the naysayers believed
and undid lots of word of mouth PR in one fell swoop.
Sort of left a bad taste in my mouth.
But I didn't mean to be rude and Frank Vanella's reply concerning "victim
of ones own success syndrome" is a point well taken.
Mark C.
via Whap!
I suspect that Nordine is a victim of his own success, clients who are
impressed by someone elses marketing demo figure that if it was effective
for them, it will be for me. As someone who has done voicework for the last
twenty years or so, I know that I end up giving the client what they expect
as opposed to what they should do as an appropriate or original
presentation at times. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him
thirsty, oh well. As it happens, Nordine has a wealth of other work behind
him that shows his range and versatilty, it's just not what people seem to
be willing to pay him to do. Too bad, he's a real talented guy.