#Used U-matic equipment
18 messages in this thread
I've been looking into a Video Toaster system for some time and I'm not far
away from making a decision. My real dilemma is which tape format to use. I've
priced everything from S-VHS to Beta SP. (Some people, notably you, Jerry
Hatchett, have scared me away from S-VHS! <g>) Now my partner has brought up
another possibility that fell into his lap, and I'd like some informed opinion
(which is always available here, it seems).
A reporter at one of the local TV stations here (in Birmingham, Ala.) has some
U-matic decks and a camera/portable deck he'd like to lease to us. Since we
wouldn't have to buy it outright, that makes it much more interesting to me,
since we could buy the rest of the equipment and get up to speed on what we're
doing before making the final decision.
I haven't seen the equipment yet, don't know brands, models, or anything. But
what about U-matic as a format? I know it's not Beta. I know it's not MII. But
how does it compare to, say, S-VHS? (BTW, I'm assuming at this point that it's
not U-matic SP.) Will we be able to do decent editing on it while we figure out
what we're doing?
Thanks in advance for any opinions.
David
David,
I'll sit out during the opinion offerings on this one, for reasons obvious to
you…
Jerry
Jerry:
What?! An attempt at objectivity? How absurd! <bg>
BTW, I'm sitting by my mailbox every day hoping for a demo reel. The excitement
about this cinematic triumph is building in the McElroy household. If it
doesn't show up soon, I'm afraid I can't hold my wife back from a march on
Tupelo. <g>
David
David,
Not to worry; your copy of the 'cinematic triumph' will arrive quite soon!
<g>
Jerry
As I have stated before, the format you choose is usually determind by
your clients. You must provide a format they can use. I have used 3/4"
U-Matic for years and have had it bumped up to BetaCam with great results
if it was necessary. Most of the broadcast stations and cable stations can
use 3/4". Check with your clients. If you do not have any clients yet, I
suggest you call the people you expect to do work for and ask what they
will accept.
Jim R. Ollick
Using AP from Bergenfield, NJ
Spec-wise Umatic is about VHS in terms of resolution, but since its a
wider tape, dropouts are less of a problem and the equipment may have
DOC built in. Also you won't have access to hi-fi audio, but that
may not be an issue.
The issues should be: bucks you gotta lay out for the lease. Will he
get them completely "tuned up" before you get them (U-Matic at this
point usually means 'beat-up and run out'). You should also check
the price of tape. You are going to pay about 2.5 times as much for
equal times of Umatic as you would for VHS, and about 1.75 – 2 times
as much as for S-VHS.
Aside from Jerry's emotional response to S-VHS (;^} remember that if
you get the Fox network in your area, much of their original
programming and news is done on JVC S-VHS equipment. With a little
bit of care, S-VHS can easily produce results that, to the human eye
is as good as Umatic. If your option was SP, then you might be able
to see the difference in some cases (original material shot with
high-quality camera under studio conditions).
The other thing and probabl most important is, who is going to be
paying for your services? What formats can they accept? If they are
in VHS only then Umatic is not the right thing to do and Vice
versa. Also, manuy people are acquiring on s-VHS, and hi-8, then
dumping to thier edit format then bumping to the customers format. So
you could edit in S-VHS and have the capability to output to
component if required, then for those jobs where it is ABSOLUTELY
necessary, rent the componenen deck for the edit side of the
operation. The key is a flexible, configurabel edit controller.
Now if you have an unlimited budget, go D1. If it is mildly limited,
go BetaCam-SP. If it is fairly limited, go S-VHS. If it is really
limited, look for used Umatic stuff. You can get whole 3/4" A/B Roll
set-ups for about 5K if you look around a bit. But the prime issue,
again, is what formats can your customers accept.
Also, a good high resolution 1/2" – 2/3" 3 CCD dockable camera should be a
prime focus. Then if required you dock up the rented beta-cam, else
through on the owned S-VHS/hi-8 deck. Remember, if you are shooting
goulash, no amount of editing deck wizardry is going to clean it up.
(O.K. Jerry, time to pounce! ;^}
wmc – via Autopilot!
No pouncing here! <g>
Well, maybe a little rebutt? I believe you are more experienced and
knowledgeable then I in this area, so I am tossing some lousy advice out I
hope you would correct it (I can live with gently… :^}
wmc – via Autopilot!
Wayne,
I don't know if I'd be more experienced than you or not. I've been at this
full time for a couple of years now, but then again, if you consider 80 hours
per week at it, I guess that's like 4 yrs. to most folks?<g>?
My big plus is that I have actually gone through hands-on editing with S-VHS,
Hi8, 3/4 SP, and now Beta SP on my UVW decks. I've never done much with
standard Umatic, beyond incorporating some existing footage into projects, and
there is a _noticeable_ difference between standard and SP in the Umatics. The
standard's video quality is not nearly as crisp and the color fidelity is much
poorer. I think both Hi8 and S-VHS are more than suitable for many
acquisitions, but bumping up to another format for editing gets rather old
after a fairly short period of time. For that reason, I prefer to shoot in the
same format that I'm gonna edit in, whenever possible. For example, I recently
shot 5 hours of footage for a promo video. If I'd had to bump all that up to
another format, I'd have been looking at another 6 hours work. There are
tradeoffs with each of the formats, but I've found 3/4 SP to be the best
_overall_ format out there for general videography, if you're not gonna use a
component format. The picture quality is excellent, the tapes are fairly
cheap, the tapes are incredibly rugged during the editing process, and EVERY
broadcast facility out there has it. In fact, I'm having to keep one of my 3/4
SP decks to be compatible with local facilities, even though I've gone to Beta
SP on shooting and editing. I've heard the story many times about Fox using
S-VHS, but I think a little research will show that they're using it _strictly_
for field acquisition.
In the end, all the specs and measurements in the world won't matter, if the
picture looks like crap…
Later,
Jerry
Jerry,
True on all counts, I believe. BTW, I've gotta visit (and help set-up) a
BetaS facility in NYC next month. The guy there ( a freind of mine) know
nothing about video, just bought the stuff cause he heard it was the best
(good think no one mentioned D1 to him :^} Anyway, he told me that you
can't do audio splits with the UVW's. Is this really true, or is he not
reading the manual right? In fact he said you can't do audio only on the
UVW's either. It doesn't sound right to me. Since you got 'em, maybe you
could tell me if I'm nuts or he's just not reading things right.
wmc – via Autopilot!
Wayne,
On the issue of UVW audio splits, he's not reading something right. You can
seperately do inserts for Audio1, Audio2, Video, or any combination thereof.
My guess would be that he's reading in the section that describes assemble
editing?
Jerry
Jerry,
Thanks – thats good news! Actually, I'm guessing that he is getting this
from the Mac based edit controller software. Cause he also mentioned that
there were no drivers for his machines so he could really do any editing.
I said I thought they were just standard Sony rs422 protocol – couldn't a
BVU type set-up work. I got a DUH! reply, so I suspect I am not going to
really see what his problem is (aside from the fact that he knows nothing
about video except its 'neat').
wmc – via Autopilot!
Wayne,
If he's using The Editizer as his edit control system, the UVW-1600 is
currently operating using the PVW-2600 code, and the UVW-1800 is using the code
for the PVW-2800. There are also a couple more settings in the configuration
window that need to be tweaked:
Offset for source deck: +1 frame
Edit In Delay: 3 frames
Edit Out Delay: 2 frames
Good Luck,
Jerry
Jerry,
Thanks alot for the UVW info. I'm printing the message to take with me
when I go, and will be sure to refer him to it if that is his situation.
wmc – via Autopilot!
Wayne,
You're welcome; hope the info helps him out.
Jerry
Jerry, on your "all the specs and measurements in the world won't matter, if
the picture looks like crap", that pretty much summarizes anything that could
be said about it <g>.
Vince
Vince,
Thanks. I'd say that ideology holds true throughout the world of video
measurements and specs, wouldn't you ?
Jerry
Jerry, "that ideology holds true throughout the world of video
measurements and specs", without a doubt. I learned the hard way to
take the "lab measurments" and "expert's recommendations" with a
grain of salt. Real world hands on looks like the final decider that
is most important.