#ROM-Switchers Help
27 messages in this thread
I'd like to solicit some opinions on ROM-switching boards.
I recently got 2.0 and wanted a ROM-switcher. I wanted the DKB, but was
talked out of it. I was told keyboard-switching might cause problems. I got
the Kickstart board from Utilities Unlimited. I've gone through 3 of them
and none worked properly. I decided to get the DKB Multistart II board, but
they're on backorder for about another 2 weeks. I then found out there's a
new board out called "Switch It" by Global Upgrades, that functions
identically to the DKB board. Finally, when I called to return my original
Kickstart board, I was told they have a new version without a hardware
switch, that allows you to switch ROMs with the mouse or a joystick.
I now have 3 alternatives and a decision to make. Should I:
1) Order the Multistart II by DKB even though it is on backorder? This is
just a board that plugs directly into the ROM socket and then allows you to
place up to 3 ROM chips on it. You can switch to the 1.3 ROM by pressing
Ctrl-Amiga-Amiga for 5 seconds instead of just a second. The board covers
the 68000 chip, therefore you can't put anything in that socket. However,
that's not a problem for me, since I already have the GVP combo board in
the co-processor slot and don't need access to the chip socket.
2) Order the Switch It board by Global Upgrades, even though I never heard
of it before. It has a short ribbon cable to connect to the ROM socket and
you can only place 2 ROMs on the board. (I only need space for 2 ROMs.) You
switch to 1.3 with the keyboard reset sequence, just like with the DKB
board.
3) Order the Revised Kickstart board from Utilities Unlimited, even though
3 of their older boards didn't work. The older boards had a 3-position
hardware switch to change ROMs. The new board only takes 2 ROMs, but you
can switch with either the left or right mouse button or the joystick. You
have to connect jumpers from the board to different chips, depending on how
you want switching to take place.
Any advice or suggestions, please?
Dom Fontana
am using DKB multistart w/1.3 and 2.0 roms on my A2000/040 system with 0
problems. worked first time. nice product and i'm recommending it for
customers who want both roms in their system (switching over to 2.0 is
something to consider if it will burn your bridges back to 1.3 – some
customers don't want to be left with only 2.0). I wrote a couple little
script files which let me have dual 'devs', 'libs', etc. directories. One
script renames everything right to prepare for rebooting in 2.0 (I named
the script, cleverly, ChangeTo2.0). The other script (for changing back to
1.3) renames everything back to what it was. My hard drive has some extra
space taken up by the dual 'devs', etc. but it's worth it to be able to
switch back and forth easily. BTW I did NOT reformat my drives under 2.0.
Not necessary, at least with my trusty TrumpCardPro. Good luck with the
DKB. I did hear there were some possible problems with it on an A500, but
haven't heard any confirmation of that.
Daniel,
Thanks for the info. I'll be using whatever ROM-switcher I get with a
2500.
Dom Fontana
Dom,
(1) Have you tried any of the other companies that carry the MultiStart II,
such as the GrapeVine group?
(2) This product may be fine, but something about a ribbon cable connected
to a ROM socket sounds like it could be trouble… Shielding, distance, and
such.
(3) I think a mouse button/joystick switching scheme could be really
problematic. The DKB board uses the RESET signal that the Amiga gets on a
CTRL-A-A, something that you'll ONLY be doing if you want to reset. I
certainly wouldn't want to bump the joystick or hit the mouse wrong and
reset my machine…
Denny,
I think I will get the Multistart II board. I agree about using mouse/
joystick switching. I also agree that a ribbon cable could cause trouble.
Funny thing is that I did try the GrapeVine Group. They're the ones that
told me about the new ROM-switcher. They also have the MS II board on
backorder for at least two weeks.
Another question. I have the Super Agnus chip and will install my 2.0.4
ROM as soon as I get the ROM-switcher. The GrapeVine Group also has the
Super Denise chip. Should I get this chip? In other words, will the Super
Denise be automatically compatible with my system, or will I need something
else in order for it to work? Finally, do the Super Agnus, Super Denise,
and 2.0.4 ROM comprise the entire ECS, or are there other chips that I will
need to purchase?
Thanks for your help.
Dom Fontana
Dom,
Yes, if you get SuperDenise, along with your 2.04 and SuperAgnes you'll
have the entire ECS. Should you get it? Well, it's not a must, but it does
give you access to the new ECS video modes. (I actually use SuperHires,
1280×2/400, for some spreadsheet work occastionally.) It also lets you set
up larger virtual screens. (And I think it allows bigger blits, but that
could be SuperAgnes.)
One place where SuperDenise comes in VERY handy is if you have Commodore's
Display Enhancer board. It gets rid of the nasty waviness on the right of
the screen.
You may not realize huge benefits from the SuperDenise, but I'm the type
who always likes to have the latest and greatest in case somebody ever DOES
decide to do something neat with the hardware. 😉
Denny,
Is Super Denise compatible with the 1.3 ROM? With my switcher, I'll want
to be able to occasionally boot from the 1.3 chip; mostly for games. Will I
be able to do this with Super Denise?
Also, does Super Denise have any added benefits when using MicroWay's
flickerfixer?
Thanks.
Dom Fontana
Dom,
YOu won't be able to get the new modes under 1.3, but otherwise,
works just fine with a 1.3 ROM.
Don
Don,
Thanks for your help.
Dom Fontana
Dom:
opps… I thought that you had just purchased a humongous tape back-up
system… but I think that was Dan Wolf. Sorry about confusing you.
– Whapp!ng from the North Coast Michael
Dominick,
I too am considering a ROM switcher, but have not yet bought one. I did
not like the idea of rebooting to switch over so I called DKB. I was told
that it is possoble to install a hardware switch for their board. I do not
know if this is advisable or even the best idea but i thought you might
like to know.
Vic.
I don't know that I'd want to switch ROMs WITHOUT rebooting… I had some
recent experience on one of our demo units when the clip going to the reset
line came loose (the machine DOES get tossed (literally) into the back of
cars a lot), the machine switched ROMs a couple of times by itself on my
desk with some rather interesting results!
Peter
Peter, Actually I didn't mean switching ROMs in midstride. I meant that if
I last used the machine in 2.0 mode but later wanted to play a non 2.0
compatible game, that I didn't want to have to tirn it on, and then reboot
in 1.3. Anyway, I'll keep thinking.
Vic.
Victor,
You have to reboot in any case, but you don't have to power off/on
to switch ROMs with boards like DKB's. YOu simply hold the CTL-AMIGA-AMIGA
keys down for 5 seconds rather than the normal one second.
Don
Victor,
You can't do anything but reboot if you change the OS (ROM). You
can't start off running 2.0 and then in the middle of a session decide to
switch to 1.3 (or vice versa).
Don
Don, Nonono. I suppose I didn't explain myself well enough. See other
reply.
Victor,
Well the 3 Kickstart boards I went through that didn't work were all
connected by a ribbon cable and had a 3-position hardware switch. I didn't
like the idea of a hardware switch, but that was the only other board I
knew of at the time other than the DKB. I didn't get the DKB because some
people said I might run into problems switching from the keyboard with a
reset sequence. However, everyone I've spoken to that has a DKB board, told
me they have experienced no trouble with it. Also, the makers of the
Kickstart board have now changed it so it is switchable by the mouse or
joystick, instead of by a hardware switch. So a hardware switch doesn't
seem to be the way to go. There's also the problem of where to mount the
switch. A permanent installation requires drilling. A temporary
installation means you'll have the switch hanging out the back of the
Amiga. The newest board, Switch It, works just like the DKB board but is
connected by a ribbon cable and only takes 2 ROMs. A ribbon cable is a
potential source of trouble. The only reason to prefer it is if you don't
want the board to block the 68000 chip slot. That's not an issue for me.
Finally, even with a hardware switch, you still have to reboot the computer
after changing the position of the switch.
I have decided I am going to get the DKB board and switch by means of the
reset sequence.
Thanks for your help.
Dom Fontana
Dominick, I can only speak for the DKB board (MultiStart), which has
worked like a charm for me for months now. Not one problem.
You mentioned you'd been talked out of it, due to a potential keyboard
switching problem? I certainly haven't seen one (on my GVP 030 A2500,
anyway). It's certainly no inconvenience…. a five second hold of the
reboot keys sends you to a reboot under the other OS. Simple as pie.
Joystick booting? Huh?
–jp–seattle–
John, I agree with you. I'm getting the DKB board. Actually, it was my
service center that advised against the DKB board. The 3 Kickstart boards I
had that didn't work all had a hardware switch. Apparently other people had
problems too, since they are the ones changing to mouse/joystick switching.
You have to connect wire jumpers from their board to different chips on the
Amiga, depending on whether you want to change ROMs with the LMB, RMB, or
the joystick. Sounds like a bad idea to me.
The way I understand how the DKB board works is as follows: You remove
your old ROM, then insert it and the 2.0.4 ROM on their board. You then set
a switch for the defaut ROM and plug their board directly into your ROM
socket. On normal bootup, you'll boot with your default ROM. To switch
ROMs, you hold down the reset keys for 5 seconds. Is this correct?
Not that I have a third ROM, but how would you switch to it if you did
have one?
Thanks for your help.
Dom Fontana
I had a Multistart II installed in my 2000 and it's just great. It boots up
in 2.0 and if I for any reason need to go to 1.3, I just hold down the
control and the two amiga keys for a count of 5. I repeat this to go back
to 2.0.
I have a Quantum210 hard drive with a directory called "Workbench1.3". In
this directory is my 1.3 system files. The Startup-sequence file tests for
what rom your default is then calls for the Startup-sequence2.0 or
Startup-sequence1.3 file. (whichever is your default boot) When you hold
down the key sequence for 5 seconds, MultiStart II switches the rom call
and the startup-sequence tests false and redirects your boot to the other
startup-sequence file.
Robert,
Great idea. I was wondering about varying startup-sequences for the
different ROMs. Thanks.
Dom Fontana
You're correct. You put the ROM you want to boot from in the middle, and
the other ROM in one of the side sockets. (docs say which one)
It automatically boots to the middle (default) ROM. After you've booted
that way, if you hold down the reset keys for five seconds, then it
switches to the other ROM. Easy. If later you want to go back to the
first ROM you just do another five second reboot. Think of it as toggle
switch.
You can use the third ROM socket by connecting a jumper on the board. If
done, then you will reboot to the third ROM. So, if you really wanted
three ROMs available, you'd have to install a hardware switch and run it
outside the machine. Then you'd throw that switch (or not) to select the
alternate ROM you wanted to boot into. The default will always be there.
But if you want just two ROMs, then there is no need for hardware.
I toyed with the idea of putting in an early 1.1 ROM, so I could play some
of my really (*really*) old games that were never updated, but found out
that I'd also have to take out all cards in the machine, since 1.1 didn't
have autoconfig and stuff. I've settled on just the two ROMs (1.3 and 2.0)
TTFN
–jp–seattle–
John,
That's all I'll be using: 1.3 and 2.0. Thanks.
Dom Fontana
Dom,
Get the DKB board. Although I've never used it, I know DKB's
products to be of high quality and they work as advertised.
Don
Don,
It's now a done deal. Based on all the responses I received, which I truly
appreciate, I am getting the DKB board.
I got 5 responses here and one E-Mail message. That gentleman has a brand
new DKB board for sale that was never installed and still under warranty.
He still has the warranty registration for it.
So if we can agree on a price, I'll have the DKB board, without having to
wait a few weeks for it to be available on backorder.
Thanks for your opinion.
Dom Fontana
Is Dean around? I'd like to order one, too.
John,
I haven't seen him for a few days…but he's usually in here a few
times a week.