Hardware Locks?
27 messages in this thread
The answer is…it depends where you live. In the U.S., the only
mainstream product which uses a HW Lock is 3D Studio.
Internationally, many of our software programs use HW locks as well.
Why do you ask?
>Why do you ask?
Lotsa reasons;
1) I'm kinda interested in the workings of hw locks
2) Does the hardware lock in any way aid the programs computational ability?
3) DO people often run into problems with the hw lock?
I'm interested mainly because I myself am a programmer and graphics designer.
I also had a very bad experience with the Covox company and their "recognition
aiding" DONGLE! I had to reverse the parallel port connection INSIDE my
computer to get it to work. <My parallel port worked just fine before, and I
had even run a set of diagnostics on it that turned out OK>
I would really appreciate any info.
BTW, which rev's of 3DS use an HW?
Thanks again,
Aaron the Good
The inner workings of hardware locks are pretty much secrets of the
manufacturer, but it basically invovles giving the hardware lock a
password and seed value(s), it then returns recongition values that
are checked by the program.. if they match, away you go.
Considering that a hardware lock is sitting on a printer port, it
would not be wise to put any kind of computational hardware into the
lock itself. The hardware lock is needed on PCs because, unlike
workstations, their is no unique machine ID that can be used for
software locking–many schemes have been tried, but few are
bulletproof… Memory-managers generally screw up most of them.
Many people cling to 'horror' stories of hardware locks, but the are
fairly reliable now (particurlarly if you go with a big-name lock
manufacturer). There are problems, but any locking scheme will have
problems. Software locking works ok, but thanks to the problem noted
above, it seldom is 100% compatable with all systems.
3D Studio Release 2 and 3 use the hardware lock… Release 1 got
pirated pretty badly.
Hmmm, Yeah, I can see why adding any computational hardware in an HW
lock wouldn't be wise. Covox did that for their VoiceBlaster, and it
blew up my parallel port.. which now is keeping me from backing up
my HDs. Lemme just share this with aDesk- In my BBSing, I have
encountered nasty romours that a "DONGLE CRACKED" version of 3DS
exists. Wouldn't this greatly impede functions of the program?
If you are interested in finding out some of the problems that we run
into with the HW lock, download HWLOCK.TXT. By looking at how we
solve the problems we have encountered, you can get an idea of what
we run into.
As you can see from the paper, when people call about the hardware
lock, mostly it is due to a bad configuration of a LPT port. Not a
bad port, mind you, but a configuration that is incompatable. For
example data flow in one direction only instead of bi-directional. We
have never, to my knowledge, come accross a situation that could not
be solved. In the worst case scenarios I have encountered, all you do
is put in a new $20 dedicated LPT port, and away you go. No problems.
>>add a port, no problem…
PMJI, but I just had to comment. As unfortunate as this life is that needs HW
locks, I think it even more unfortunate to have one's serious problem (like a
non-functional 3DS) dismissed with an official statement like "…all you do is
put is a new $20 dedicated LPT port, and away you go. No problems." I see
this repeated often, and in my humble opinion it is an over-simplification and
sounds a little like a cop-out.
Is Autodesk's own use of 3DS so limited that they really believe this is a
end-all solution to the worse-case HW lock problems?
Fact: everyone that I know that uses 3DS extensively has their
machines so loaded up with hardware that they DO NOT HAVE AN
EXTRA SLOT FOR THE EXTRA LPT PORT. I repeat, NO EXTRA SLOT.
Since this business requires frame buffers, VTR controllers, PAR's with TBC,
SCSI controllers, scanners, CD-ROM's, sound boards, ethernet cards, etc, etc,
in various configurations, it is often not resonable to expect a given system
to have a slot free. I need two machines just for all the "stuff" and I still
don't have room for my Magni board.
Here's hoping that someone at Autodesk will put a little more thought into a
solution to non-functional dongles.
J K J
PS: I hate to gripe without giving any thought to a solution. Here are some
ideas, not necessarily good ones <g>, as future options for the tough cases:
serial dongle? lean on the dongle manufacturer for a robust design? something
that could fit on a SCSI chain? a version keyed to the CD-ROM? ??? (get
creative here…)
John,
<< Here's hoping that someone at Autodesk will put a little more thought into a
solution to non-functional dongles. >>
The extra-board in the non-existing slot<g> is the only solution that
we can give, at this time. We've taken this issue as well as many
others to QA to review. I hope that this issue will get resolved to
your satisfaction in the future.
jonas[adesk]
>>taking the dongle issue to court, er, QA…
So someone HAS been pondering it? Great.
BTW, don't worry about my satisfaction – my dongle is quietly dongling away at
this very moment. It's kind of like your liver – you don't even think about it
until it quits working. I simply felt the need to speak up as sort of a
community thing.
J K J
Jonas,
Have you think about a floppy disk based key, like Quark Xpress?
ana /krazy images
Boy John… I take it you don't love your dongle? I love my dongle. In fact,
I just spent the whole afternoon debugging a dongle problem with my system
here. I have been having intermittent problems for the past two months and
this morning I got practically no work done due to the dreaded 3DS error that
says the hardware lock is missing do you want to save? etc. I sure love that
dongle message because it kept me from pulling out my 9mm and blowing a hole
through the Autodesk Logo on the 3DS box. Do you know that when your system is
about to crash(due to a dongle problem) it is ththe only crash that allows you
to save before it crashes. That alone is why you should love your dongle.
In the midst of four project deadlines and attempting to complete a project
that I just missed the deadline this afternoon because I couldn't work
uninterupted by that lovely hardware lock message, I just told the client that
the computer is giving me dongle bugitis and had to post pone the meeting until
tomorrow. Well I found the culprit, I think. Seems that the weight of all
those damn dongles hanging about has stressed the casings and the Liquid Speed
utility dongle is intermittent connection. Well I removed it and I'm back up
again just one day behind schedule. Now, do I send the bill to Vibrant or
Autodesk? I'm going a bit slower without Liquid Speed but I'll probably get
done faster in the long run.
John, the next time I go to the range I think I'll take the LS dongle with me
for target practice. <G>
What would you do?
Don,
I know this won't solve all dongle related problems (which I've been
fortunate enough to avoid), but if you put the dongles on the end of a 3'
parallel extention cable, then they would be sitting on the floor, not playing
havoc with the parallel connector. This would at least get rid of the weight of
2 or 3 locks stressing out the connector and be one less thing to worry about.
David
PS. Hows the PAR > betaSP stuff looking? (if you've had time)
I got ambitious last night and hardwired (soldered) the damn dongles together
on a chassis eliminating the multiple plugins. Things are working again with
the four dongles in place inside my switch box. I put the LS dongle on the
outboard unmodified incase I decide to send it back the end of April. Should
be interesting, I begin a modeling project that will reach 260,000 faces. I
did the first part of this animation last fall and it was 150,000 then. It is
in this type of project that the LS product really shines. To tell you the
truth I can get along just fine without LS for most of my modeling projects
because most screen redraw in less than 3 seconds. My modeling reaction time
is much longer than 3 seconds <G>.
The PAR output is working just great. I was awarded a job today from the
Chamber of Commerce to do the city's 1994 theme logo. I'm real excited about
this job because it will have great PR for me and future growth. Of course I
had to join the chamber. <BG> It is such a pleasure to deal with clients that
have complete scripted and speced storyboards.
Don,
>> hardwired (soldered) the damn dongles…
I guess that's one way around that problem. I agree about LS. Most of
my models tend to get fairly large, and LS makes them a little easier to deal
with. And even better, I had been using Vibrant's "prores" drivers for R2, so I
was able to get LS for 1/3 retail. Quite a deal. Congrats on winning the city
job, but just because they've got a script and speced boards, you're not
actually expecting them to stick to them, are you?<g>
David
>>just because they've got a script and speced boards, you're not actually
expecting them to stick to them, are you<<
I can tell you come from the movie biz, too <g>.
John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
>>I love my dongle club…
>>dongle-bugitis…
Yes, I was having a similar intermittent problem with the first Gateway Pentium
I got – fixed with the new one they sent. It got me when I was under stress to
finish a project and I had to restart 3DS every 15 minutes to get done. I
can't think of anything more frustrating than to be hog-tied by by something
that has NOTHING to do with the function of the software.
I don't own Liquid Speed, but a friend of mine said his came with the
chintziest little low-rent dongle you can buy. Please don't get me wound up
about Liquid Speed! OH NO, too late…
My position is still the same: I think Vibrant should have made a slightly
different kind of deal with Autodesk. Very simple: enable the speedup switch
in ALL copies of 3DS in exchange for a RESONABLE per-copy fee. The result:
(1) The cost of 3DS would go up a little instead of a lot, and (2) Vibrant
would make a LOT more money because every 3DS user by default would "buy" it.
Instead, only some choose to buy it. Those who don't are unhappy because they
know they are not getting the full speed possible out of their 3DS. Those who
buy it can get upset at the stupid dongle, if not the cost. I am not convinced
that the 3DS wizards are so dense that THEY can't figure out how to speed up
the display: anyone with a virtual nose can smell the deal.
Don't get me wrong, I love the Vibrant drivers and what they have done to the
video compatibility problem, offloading the development so the Yosters can
concentrate on the real 3DS. A BIG plus for r3! I just wish they (Vibrant) had
been blessed with a little less greed and a little more vision.
The whole idea of a separate utility dongle for a captive dongled program is so
obtuse I expect to see in on Letterman's Stupid Corporate Tricks some evening.
On the other hand, I agree with the basis of locking 3DS because of the nature
of the software and size of the market.
Whoa! I quit now. Man, I must not be getting enough sleep. <g>
J K J
PS: BTW, I always mount dongles inside the case or inside a switch box, with
ribbon cables and strain relief where necessary. I keep the 9-mm handy on the
floor beside the computer. (literally)
I guess I'll have to watch Letterman for the list.
OK, Here's one:
Top 10 reasons there's gonna be a 3DS SGI slave/renderer:
10) ILM needs an excuse to buy 35 new PCs (they really wanna play "Doom").
9) 'Cause it'll "feel" good.
8) SGI wanted some software running on it's platform that actually comes with
usable documentation.
7) Too many MIPS processors sitting around with nothing to do.
6) Wavefront, Alias, and SoftImage have always wanted a "little brother".
5) Now there will be an actual use for the Indy in it's default state.
4) PC owners everywhere now have a use for that network of SGI boxes
gathering dust in the corner.
3) Gary Yost has learned that, in a suprise move, SGI will soon corner
the scuba diving and Hawaiian shirt industries.
2) The folks who program for SGI/MIPS all have PCs running 3DS at home and
need a faster way to render their stuff.
And the number one reason SGI's gonna have that 3DS renderer:
1) Both Silicon Graphics and Autodesk/3DS use the same shade of purple alot.
<g>
-Alan
Alan,
Great List! It's now on the wall here. I really enjoyed #3 and #1.
Paul
HA!
– G
Alan,
very funny, Alan. BTW, I have an Indy at the office gathering dust. I decided
to use 3ds on a 486/66 for the game track-building instead of the
Indy/Softimage for various reasons. 'Course, we are using Softimage for the
characters in the game.
<<top 10 list>>
ROFLMGO!!!
Bravo! Bravo! It's piercing industry speculation such as yours that makes
this forum an invaluable place.
<g>
John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
<< I just spent the whole afternoon debugging a dongle problem with my system
here. >>
Did HWLOCK.txt in section #9 help you? If not, what finally was your
cure?
jonas[adesk]
>>Did HWLOCK.txt in section #9 help you? If not, what finally was your
cure?
I'll have to check it out. Didn't know that file existed.
I ended up hardwiring the things in place inside a metal chassis. Soldered
connections is more reliable than plugins.
Not something I'd recommend to the casual user though.
Why not a serial lock, anyway? I use a program here at work that uses the
things, and I like it a lot better than the lpt lock. In my situation at work,
I have three programs with locks, two lpts, and one serial. The problem with
the lpt ports is that our trakker tape drive won't work with them on, and also
we are constantly changing between three different printers on a few of the
computers and it is a pain (even with the buffalo boxes and printer switchers).
The serial port doesn't see as much constant alteration and most computers have
two as opposed to one parallel port. Seems like a good idea to me.
When you have the source code to a 1 meg executable, it's easy to confound
dongle-crackers. Think about it: you could pepper the code with various
checks. You could make life a living hell for someone who actually tries to
*use* the program, by making the program die a million ways because the program
realizes that one of the million checks failed. The average pirate cracker
won't work the program hard enough to find each and every check. The casual
pirate will decide it's not worth it, and either stop using the cracked
program, or buy a regular copy.
>> You could make life a living hell for someone who actually tries to *use*
the program, by making the program die a million ways because the program
realizes that one of the million checks failed.
Yeah, like by generating straaange messages about Invalids and Normal Arrays
and such. Or even subtler, by popping up spurious Vertices here and there–the
possibilities are endless! <g>