CompuServe Thread

#Software Failure

34 messages in this thread
#77717From: Wesley HelmsMar 26, 1994 12:44 PM
Help!! I keep getting dumped out of Lightwave. I'm rendering a simple animation and my Amiga crashes after a few frames. Screen reads: red flash Software Failure Error: 8100 0005 Task: 0023ECD0 I'm new at this and don't know Amiga DOS that well. I have 13 meg and GVP '030 Thanks Wes
#77723From: BRENT W. MALNACKMar 26, 1994 2:28 PM
Wes, Describe the scene, the rendering mode, LW version, AmigaDos version, number of points and polygons (and objects). This should help someone determine the problem better. Brent
#77726From: Wesley HelmsMar 26, 1994 3:27 PM
Brent – my scence is simple but the problem has occured before. Here's the problem and my info…. Amiga crashes during rendering of an 8 text object rendering of 120 frames. free mem 5453 8 objects 2 images 1 fract refl. 1 framestore 1 light points 2185 polygons 1626 51088 poly. cap. Error Message 8100 0005 task: 0023ECD0 LW version 2.0 Hope this helps. Helps me that is…… wes
#77768From: Trent K. JohnsonMar 27, 1994 4:47 AM
Wes: That free memory figure bothers me. Does the crash happen on even simpler renderings? Try just rendering an empty scene. Make sure nothing else is running (Modeler, etc). This will give you the maximum amount of free RA free RAM. If okay, keep adding things and rendering (lowest resolution shou should be fine), so that the free mem drops in increments. If you near the edge of free memory and it starts crashing-it's time for some more GVP RAM. How much RAM do you have, incidentally? Hope this helps a bit… Trent Johnson ReAnimators
#77778From: Wesley HelmsMar 27, 1994 10:54 AM
Thanks Trent, I have 13 meg. Wes
#77847From: Trent K. JohnsonMar 28, 1994 4:11 AM
Good luck Wes. 13 MB shouldn't be a problem…hmm… TJ
#77852From: Wesley HelmsMar 28, 1994 8:22 AM
Trent I finally got the animation done. But almost ten tries and 2.5 days for 120 frames is a little too much. I will start from scratch and see if I can isolate the problem. If anyone out there has a brain storm I would love to hear it. Wes
#77858From: Wesley HelmsMar 28, 1994 10:03 AM
I just got off the phone with NEW TEK . They say I'm probably having a communication error between the Amiga/Toaster/Sanyo. They said to do two things. First- inactivate my fast ram on my GVP'030. Second- Save frames to Ram then send to tape and the single frame controler should delete the frame. I think I can handle the first thing but I have no idea how to do the second. Does anyone have any ideas? What do these answers look like? Thanks Wes
#77923From: Jim MccabeMar 28, 1994 11:38 PM
Wesley, Is the 13 megs of memory all 32-bit memory on the GVP board, or do you have some 16-bit memory on another board ? I had an almost identical problem recently until I got rid of my 16 bit memory and upgraded to all 32-bit memory.
#77955From: Wesley HelmsMar 29, 1994 10:55 AM
Jim I don't know. I'll check where the ram is. I bought this thing used and I assume that it is all on the GVP. All of the slots (I think) are open after my TBC. Wes
#77727From: Wesley HelmsMar 26, 1994 3:27 PM
p.s. High Res Rendering mode wes
#77737From: Kent S. LidkeMar 26, 1994 6:55 PM
Are you saving RGB or Frames? To disk or to tape? My toaster crashes regularly when rendering to tape or playing frames to tape. I don't think it likes talking to my BCD 2000A. Triggering record with the joystick works fine. Kent Lidke Helo Pilot on AutoPilot
#77777From: Wesley HelmsMar 27, 1994 10:52 AM
Kent- To tape. Sanyo to bw exact. I thought that might be the problem. I really hope that I wont have to trig every frame. I want this thing to do anims while I do other things like sleep. Wes
#77816From: Kent S. LidkeMar 27, 1994 8:44 PM
Yeah, I was afraid of that. I believe the sanyo has the BCD installed in it, so it may be the same problem I have. If your render times are fairly constant, you could set up a simple delay command, something like LOOP150;TIME180;APND1;LEND. The number after TIME is supposed be increments of .1 sec, but for me it was more like .25. This (sort of) worked when extracting JPEG files using pegger and rendering as a foreground sequence. The images came up roughly 40 sec apart, but the variance in deJPEG times was too big to be totally reliable. If you don't have Pegger, I strongly recommend getting it. It will vastly increase the number of frames you can save. I get about 26 RGBs per meg. This will at least allow you to sleep while you render, and reduce the amount of time you spend waiting to hit the joystick button. I have been meaning to follow this up with BCD, but my day job keeps interfering with my toaster-related activities. If I find a better answer, I'll let you know. You might also post an inquiry to Jonathan Hirschman 70274,2526. He is developing a single-framing utility for the Sanyo and BCD called GroVer. Last I heard, he was looking for beta testers. Best of luck, Kent Lidke Helo Pilot on AutoPilot
#77828From: Jonathan HirschmanMar 27, 1994 11:51 PM
Kent, Funny you should mention GroVeR 🙂 We had a lot of problems with Toaster support. We decided to start with the Toaster 2.0 software, which was a mistake. It seems that it just doesn't work the same way that the 3.x revisions do, at least when used with ADPro…despite what ASDG said in their manual and communications to us. Our 3.x trials start tomorrow. Hopefully, beta testing is not very far off now – maybe only a few days. And, GroVeR has a delay feature that might solve your problems. Jonathan
#77836From: Kent S. LidkeMar 28, 1994 12:55 AM
Any chance I can still beta test? I was in over my head for a while trying to get something in for the Amiga Gang tape. Needless to say, having to trigger the majority of frames with the joystick became tiresome. Any utility that would help, even a buggy beta one, would be a godsend for me. Anyway, if you still need a tester, I can send you my BCD directory list. Thanks. BTW, since I take it you do have a toaster now, does it crash when you do similar things? Sans GroVer, of course.<g> Kent Lidke Helo Pilot on AutoPilot
#77874From: Jonathan HirschmanMar 28, 1994 2:57 PM
Kent, You are still on the Beta list; things should start moving *really* soon…I mean it this time 🙂 No need for the BCD directory – BCD finally came through for us. In terms of crashing…why would I bother with sequencing out of LW when I have GroVeR 🙂 Jonathan
#77851From: Wesley HelmsMar 28, 1994 8:19 AM
Jonathan- Do you believe that the problem is a time or delay issue? I render to tape and I thought the record comand has a delay type feature to allow the machine to put the image on the tape? Thanks Wes
#77875From: Jonathan HirschmanMar 28, 1994 3:02 PM
Wesley, We will look into this a bit, but I have no answer now. GroVeR does the job OK, but requires ample disk space for your frames (unless you want to JPEG them, perhaps using the ASDG Sentry program), *and* Toaster 3.0 or better. Jonathan
#77850From: Wesley HelmsMar 28, 1994 8:16 AM
Kent Thanks Is there a resolution or quality dif between rgb and framestore. Also I have been rendering to tape not to my hd and then to tape. Does this cause problems? Thanks I will look into Pegger. Wes P.S. My day job gets in the way too. The nerve of this company………. 🙂
#77883From: Jim BroekMar 28, 1994 4:23 PM
Wesly, Does your Lightwave crash only when rendering to tape. How about when rendering framestores? Later, Jim
#77887From: Wesley HelmsMar 28, 1994 4:53 PM
Jim Nope never crashes on a framestore. Wes
#77914From: Kent S. LidkeMar 28, 1994 10:07 PM
Wes, There are folks around who know way more than me, but I'll go out on a limb here. My understanding is that RGB retains slightly higher quality because it hasn't been translated into an NTSC signal prior to storage. RGB files tend to be smaller than FSs, sometimes by a lot. FSs are usually about 700k, where my RGBs usually come in at about 330k before Pegging. The only problem with rendering to tape is wear on the deck. On my AG-7750, the wear ratio between the capstan (I think) and the heads was weird because I had been rendering to tape. Some components require replacement after a certain number of hours (on the AG). My dealer recommended rendering to disk, and then dumping frames so the deck wasn't sitting around waiting on LW to render. I don't know if this applies to the Sanyo. Note: the Pegger manual says extracting JPEGs to FS will show artifacting, though I didn't see any on tests JPEG'd at 85% quality. I didn't notice any artifacting on RGB at the same setting during 1 minute of animation. Lastly, Jim Broek suggested trying the Talk command to stop the serial port from talking back to the toaster. My BCD manual says TALK0 is the power up config, but that the software sets TALK1 when it is run. I'm going to try TALK0, TALK1, and TALK2 tonight. I'll let you know. Good Luck. Kent Lidke Helo Pilot on AutoPilot
#78093From: Stephen BaileyMar 30, 1994 10:52 PM
PMFJI, Framestores that are either compressed or saved under the 3.xx software are compressed, and now, in my experience, are much smaller than their twin IFFs (RGB). I have found some artifacting through my use of Pegger, even at 90-100 settings. Try rendering a frame with some kind of gradient background fog, so that a subtle range of color is generated in the image. JPEGing this and decompressing it will show some wierdness within the hue spread. Just wanted to offer whoever needs it some info from my experience 🙂 Stephen Bailey Sawyer & Bailey Film and Video CIS # 72773,2451
#78143From: Kent S. LidkeMar 31, 1994 2:02 PM
Stephen, Re: Framestores vs. RGB… Hmm, I tried it out and you're absolutely right. A LW image rgb saved came to 492k, and the FS was 344k. I started saving RGB only under 2.0 to save space, and didn't check it under 3.x til now. Thanks for the info. Re: JPEG Are you seeing artifacting in a still or a moving image, or both? I know there is artifacting, but I havent' noticed it to be a problem on an animation recorded on S-VHS. I do see it in the stills. Also, the Pegger manual says that decompressing a JPEG as a Framestore will show more artifacting than decomp'ing to RGB. I checked this, and it was noticibly true. I'm still in the hobbyist stage, not trying to make a living at it, so I suppose my standards are lower. Thanks for the post and the info. Kent Lidke Helo Pilot on AutoPilot
#78218From: Jim S. RoofApr 1, 1994 11:56 AM
Check out the Pegger update in lib10 of Amigaarts. This upgrade solves the framestore decompression problem quite nicely. Jim Roof
#78234From: Stephen BaileyApr 1, 1994 3:54 PM
Kent, RE: Artifacting Yes, I'm talking about viewing a still from an animation. To be honest, I haven't gotten too much use out of Pegger since I installed a PAR board. Just exchanging one type of compression for another, I suppose. I hope to set-up a way in which Pegger could start up and snoop my brush directories on boot-up. Then, my storage base (i.e. precious HD space) could be reduced, without having to constantly decompress brushes for use in Lightwave. You're right about JPEG–>FRAMESTORE. YUCK! I always generate full 24-bit IFFs. They hold up through the ringer. I think the thing about attaining the highest quality revolves around the amount of use the imagery will get. From editing, dubbing, processing, etc. Seeing a chunky CG in full BetaSP quality is a bummer. 🙂 Stephen Bailey Sawyer & Bailey Film and Video CIS # 72773,2451
#77929From: Kent S. LidkeMar 29, 1994 12:57 AM
Wes, Good news (so far)! The TALK2 command seems to fix my problem. So far I've run off 100 frames without a hitch. Just insert it in your setup string, e.g. TALK2;EDTP5;EDOTXXXX. Working like a charm. Hope it works for you. All thanks to Jim Broek, he had the answer. Kent Lidke Helo Pilot on AutoPilot
#77956From: Wesley HelmsMar 29, 1994 10:57 AM
Thanks Kent and Jim, I'll try that new string. Is Sanyo's version of bcd going to need any adjustments? Wes
#77882From: Jim BroekMar 28, 1994 4:18 PM
If you've got the Sanyo VTR with the built in BCD, make sure you turn the "TALK" off. 'TALK 2" I believe, the Toaster doesn't like to have info coming back up from the serial port. Later, Jim
#77913From: Kent S. LidkeMar 28, 1994 10:07 PM
Thanks, Jim. I'm going to give that a try. It really sounds right to me. I'll let you know. Kent Lidke Helo Pilot on AutoPilot
#77930From: Kent S. LidkeMar 29, 1994 12:57 AM
Jim, I tried out TALK2 and it seems to fix my problem. Thanks a bunch for the tip. I can't measure the amount of time you've saved me. Kent Lidke Helo Pilot on AutoPilot
#77981From: Jim BroekMar 29, 1994 5:31 PM
Kent, No Problemo…I kind of stumbled on that one in the manual. And started turning the "Talk" off, just in case it 'might' cause problems. So I've had it included in my Sanyo startup script since day one. I guess the BCD manual doesn't do as good a job at describing Toaster performance peculiarites as the Sanyo Version of the BCD. Later, Jim
#78012From: Kent S. LidkeMar 29, 1994 11:55 PM
Jim, I got my BCD in '91, and haven't upgraded the software since. (hanging head in shame). My manual only mentions the TALK command in an obscure place and doesn't even offer a "2" option, only TALK0 and TALK1. I guess it's just the manual, 'cause the command works. I suppose I should pursue an upgrade, but at least it's working now. Anyway, thanks again. Kent Lidke Helo Pilot on AutoPilot