#memory tweaking
35 messages in this thread
Steven and Ron,
I got HIDOS.SYS to work with Janus EMM.SYS. It got some memory. It
seems that attempting to relocate DOS to upper memory with /B=FFFF block
my system from reading drives.
EMM386.SYS will definitely block the bridgeboard with /B=FFFF and make
reboot of the entire system necessary to get back control.
/BDOS=NONE must also be used with HIDOS.SYS.
This memory tweaking has got to be an art and lots of luck on IBM
clones!
Sincerely,
(Mr.) Gayle Lee Fairless
'Perfessor Fearless' from the Rocket City!
DEVICE=C:\SYSTEM\EMM.SYS EXCLUDE=D000-DFFF FULLDISPLAY SHOWOPTIONS
REM DEVICE=C:\DRDOS\EMM386.SYS /F=NONE /K=0 /B=NONE /V /E=D000-DFFF
/R=AUTO DEVICE=C:\DRDOS\HIDOS.SYS /CHIPSET=NONE /BDOS=NONE
HIDOS=ON
DEVICE=\SSTORDRV.SYS
DEVICE=\DEVSWAP.COM
SHELL=C:\COMMAND.COM C:\ /P /E:512
BREAK=ON
HIBUFFERS=20
FILES=30
FCBS=4,4
FASTOPEN=256
LASTDRIVE=L
HISTORY=ON, 256, ON , OFF, OFF
COUNTRY=001,,C:\DRDOS\COUNTRY.SYS
HIDEVICE=C:\DRDOS\ANSI.SYS
Memory Type Total Bytes ( Kbytes ) Available
Conventional 655,360 ( 640K ) 467,824 ( 456K )
High 65,520 ( 64K ) 49,744 ( 48K )
Extended 4,194,304 ( 4,096K ) 0 ( 0K )
Extended via XMS N/A 3,065,856 ( 2,994K )
EMS 671,744 ( 656K ) 212,992 ( 208K )
via AutoPilot 1.03a
Gayle,
I'm puzzled why you are using HIDOS.SYS. EMM386.SYS will work with the
386 BB more effectively than HIDOS.SYS. Further, if you use EMM386.SYS and
need to have expanded memory, it will allocate it. /B=FFFF DOES work, because
that's what I use, so I know it works. What hard drive controller are you
using that is causing you a problem? Perhaps you need to change the interrupt
level or port so you don't conflict with one used by the BB. There's a chart
in the BB manual which lists the interrupts and ports used by the BB.
Steven: I suggest to Gayle he use HIDOS.SYS under DR DOS 6.0. I'm all ears
regarding suggestions to the contrary, but it works for me. HIDOS.SYS lets
me put system buffers and other stuff in high memory and seems to spare
some memory.
Ron,
EMM386.SYS will work just fine with the 386BB. It will put as much of
DOS as possible into himem using /B=FFFF option. With HIDOS=ON you can load
most everything else into the UMBs other than the area used by Janus and your
video card, if you use one. Because I don't use expanded memory, I don't
allocate a page frame with EMM386. My setup is:
DEVICE=C:\DRDOS\EMM386.SYS /F=NONE /K=0 /B=FFFF /R=AUTO /E=D000-D7FF
I have an additional excluded area in my /E because I happen to have a scsi
adapter card which uses memory at CA00-CBFF. I then turn HIDOS=ON and then
proceed with the rest of my config.sys. I think Gayle is having a problem
because he insists on loading the Janus EMM.SYS along with DRDOS's memory
manager. I don't seem to be able to get him to get rid of EMM.SYS because it
will interfere with DRDOS's memory management.
HIDOS.SYS is designed to be used mainly with 286 chips, which is why it isn't
needed with the 386BB. EMM386.SYS does all of the same things as HIDOS.SYS
does plus it provides expanded memory if you need it. However, if you plan to
run windows you don't want any expanded memory, and EMM386.SYS will be more
compatible with windows than HIDOS.SYS.
Ron, if you use a 386BB, get with EMM386.SYS with your DRDOS, rather than
HIDOS.SYS.
Thanks for the tip, Steven. Will give that a go. I, like Gayle, once tried
to use both the Janus EMM.SYS and the DR-DOS EMM386 drivers together and
had problems. Was told by another BB user a while back that I should stick
to the Janus driver so I dropped EMM386. Time for another look.
Ron,
EMM386.SYS would not have worked on the older 8088 and 80286
bridgeboards, but it works fine on the 386 BB. However, the main
reason for not using the Janus emm.sys is that it ONLY provides for
expanded memory. If you use windows or any newer DOS software, you
don't need expanded memory, you need extended memory (usually called
XMS memory.) If you set up both expanded and extended memory, then
you reduce the amount of memory available to windows or any other
program which needs extended memory. You aalso use up 64k of UMB
space for the expanded memory manager's page frame. That means you
can't load as many TSRs or other things that can locate in the UMB
and not take up conventional memory.
On the 386BB you can use EMM386.SYS from DRDOS to handle both
extended and/or expanded memory. If you don't want expanded memory,
then set the /F switch to NONE and the /K switch to 0. If you do
want to set up some expanded memory, then set the /F switch to AUTO
and the /K switch to the number of kbytes of expanded memory you want
to allocate. Otherwise emm386.sys will treat all of your memory
above himem as extended memory. That's what you want if you use
windows. No expanded and ALL extended memory. Also be sure to set
the /B=FFFF to locate BDOS into the himem area and not in the UMBs.
With the 386 BB there is no need to use DRDOS's HIDOS.SYS driver or
Janus's emm.sys driver. For your reference here's an abbreviated list of my
config.sys:
DEVICE=C:\DRDOS\EMM386.SYS /F=NONE /K=0 /B=FFFF /R=AUTO /E=D000-D7FF HIDOS=ON
SHELL=C:\COMMAND.COM C:/ \P /E:512 HIDEVICE=C:\DRDOS\ANSI.SYS INSTALL=SHARE.EXE
/L:500 HIBUFFERS=(put however many you want. I use 10 and a diskcache program)
BREAK=ON FILES=120
The rest of config.sys has stuff in it which DRDOS normally sets up. However,
if you find a FCBS line, you can delete that. DRDOS doesn't actually support
it, so it's really just a dummy command. I use Hyperdisk disk caching program,
so I don't allocate many disk buffers, but if you don't use a caching program,
then you want to allocate at least 30 buffers or more to help improve access
speed. The share.exe command is there for windows. If you don't need file
locking/sharing then you can delete that line. I also have some SETs in the
config.sys, but you can put in what you need for your system.
If you have other cards which use the UMB, you might need to add onto the /E
the addresses to exclude. I have excluded the Janus segment in the above
example. You don't need to explicitly exclude the segment your video card
uses, emm386.sys will auto skip over it.
Hope this is helpful, Ron.
I would prefer to use EMM386.SYS (and not Janus EMM.SYS) if I can
resolve the conflicts. At present I am using Janus EMM.SYS and
HIDOS.SYS just bcause they work. I'll try booting from a floppy to
see if the hardcard and BB are conflicting. It would be nice to free
up more memory.
Ah, thanks for clarifying. I did run EMM386 today and it worked fine.
I'm not using Windows, so never encountered any overt difficulties
with EMM.SYS. Once again, my CIS membership pays for itself.
BTW, today a notice came in the mail offering me the Novell DOS 7.0
upgrade from DR DOS 6.0 for $39.95. I'll probably pop for it, thus forcing
another round of memory tweaking!
Ron,
Gee, I guess I should see one show up in the not to distant
future. I'm real concerned, thought, with how compatible 7.0 will be
with the Janus stuff because 7.0 is supposed to be a true
multi-tasking OS and a complete departure from "ordinary" DOS. When
I tried OS/2 I found it completely incompatible with the Janus
system. AMOUSE, AREAD, AWRITE, JLINK, etc., none of that would
work. I wonder just how far DRDOS 7 will depart from 6.0. I also
would wonder if Novell was able to make it compatible with windows.
However, for $39.95 it will certainly be worth looking at it.
If it can make the PC environment worthwhile, perhaps it will be
worth the effort.
Novell DOS 7.0 sounds like an interesting level of complexity in
multi-tasking and multi-processing for us!
I've got to make a decision on Novell DOS since the $39.95 offer
expires end of March. I've heard mixed things about it and one friend
flatly told me not to get it. It is advertised as Windows and OS/2
ready. Several GeoWorks users have it up and running — some
successfully, others not. Novell told a couple of 'em there
definitely were bugs that affected GeoWorks, so this baby isn't
bulletproof as yet. e.g., GeoWorks multitasks internally but you
can't mulititask externally when running it under Novell DOS. Still,
that price is damned tempting. the Netware functionality alone would
be worth it to some people. Seems to me I recall some BB user
reporting how he had OS/2 up and running successfully, but the
details are vague in my mind.
Ron,
I sent my order in. For that price it's worth a try. I'm not
suprised there are problems with Geoworks. I would assume that when
you try to put one multi-tasking OS on top of another that there's
bound to be conflicts. But if it works with windows, that's fine. I
don't use Geoworks. I just hope that it makes windows work better.
OS/2 windows works nicely, as does OS/2. I've installed it without a
problem on the BB, but you really need the memory and horsepower of a
big dos box. OS/2 uses lots of RAM, but it works fine on the BB.
OS/2 just isn't really made for slow 386 systems and you lose the
real value of the 32 bit operating system on the SX machine without a
32 bit system buss. Perhaps DRDOS 7 will be a good compromise.
Yeah, w/ one of those new 486 piggyback chips (which some folks have
gotten to work with the A2386SX) OS/2 should perhaps function a tad more
efficiently. But it's a steep upgrade — several hundred bucks, I'm told.
And you'd still have the 16-bit bottleneck underneath.
I had heard Novell DOS 7.0 is shipping from the NDSG forum here on
CompuServe, but my notice has not come. What's it like? Until I get
my interrupt conflict resolved, your CONFIG.SYS works for me. Hmmm,
I guess I could ask over in that forum for software that lists
interrupts!
Gayle,
ask over in the IBM hardware forum, or better, use the IBMFF. There
are quite a few and they work fine.
I did and turned up only about a couple that I have yet to
explore. Also, a reply from the NDSG forum suggested IRQ 14 or 15
was being used. It seems another fellow had a similar problem with
his hardcard in an IBM clone! (So the trail to a solution is
warmer!) It's not solved yet because this fellow had a driver for
the hardcard that he could simply relocate in his CONFIG.SYS. But
there may be a jumper to move or something for me.
I don't have Novell DOS, just pondering over the offer. See my note to
Steve Kapplin on this for more.
PC Tools lists software and hardware interrrupts and is a generally very
handy application, especially at the street price of $49.95 or less.
Have you been over to the NDSG forum? I educated them about Amiga
bridgeboards a couple of years ago when DRDOS 6.0 came out. I had
the standard disclaimer about disavowal of Amiga knowledge so I
clarified it for them.
I was trying to install DRDOS 6.0 and had looked at the
autoexec.bat file that switched me over to a 2nd diskette on which I
tried to boot. Silly me! The 1st diskette was the bootable one! Oh
well, we all learned! The instructions did say to boot off the 1st
diskette!
Let us know what you think of Novell 7 if and when you get it.
What's the NDSG Forum?
I've decided to sit tight for now on NovellDOS 7.0. I don't think I need
most of its new features. It's only 40 bucks, but I'm more worried about
the upgrade/reconfig time. It took me awhile to tweak the LAST upgrade,
and I'm still at it! :}
40047 S16/Ramblings 11-Mar-94 15:32:38 Sb: #40004-cache/burst modes
Gayle,
Expanded memory is not longer the standard for the PC since
Windows. Because Windows as well as most newer PC programs use extended
memory, there isn't much need for expanded memory unless you have a
specific program you need to use which is old and only uses expanded
memory. Programs like Quattro for DOS, for example, will use either type
depending on what's available. Extended memory wasn't supported on the
older Intel processors, but the 386/486 both support extended memory.
Now if you activate EMM the expanded memory manager must
allocate a 64k page frame in the UMB. If you already lose UMB for
the video card, hd controller, the janus handler, and some TSRs,
there won't be a contiguous 64k chunk available. It's possible that
this is the root of the problem in that the page frame might take
memory up to the point where something else, which needs to located
in the UMB, can't find a contiguous chunk of memory.
Therefore, I'd suggest you try my setup or Ron's jsut to see if it
solves your problem.
135585 S12/Emulators 11-Mar-94 15:38:49Sb: #135534-#memory tweaking
Gayle,
I'm puzzled why you are using HIDOS.SYS. EMM386.SYS will work
with the 386 BB more effectively than HIDOS.SYS. Further, if you use
EMM386.SYS and need to have expanded memory, it will allocate it. /B=FFFF
DOES work, because that's what I use, so I know it works. What hard drive
controller are you using that is causing you a problem? Perhaps you need
to change the interrupt level or port so you don't conflict with one used
by the BB. There's a chart in the BB manual which lists the interrupts and
ports used by the BB.
Steve,
The interrupt sounds plausible, but I bought my hardcard used so I
don't know what it uses. The system is unable to read files off the
hardcard when EMM386.SYS has /B=FFFF; consequently, the boot process
cannot complete so you may have hit upon the cause. I could try
booting from a floppy with that setup. That would isolate the
problems to a conflict between the hardcard and EMM386.SYS with
/B=FFFF.
Sincerely,
(Mr.) Gayle Lee Fairless
'Perfessor Fearless' from the Rocket City!
via AutoPilot 1.03a
Gayle,
I think now that you tell me you have a hardcard, I may have a
clue to the problem. There were some older hardcards which were not
compatible with the BB and would not boot properly. You may have
just such an animal. I suggest that if the card has jumpered
interrupts and/or ports that you contact the manufacturer for a user
manual which may show you how to change these, if they are
changeable. I also assume you are using a video card. You may also
have a conflict there, as well. You need to check the card's
interrupt settings to be sure they don't conflict with any of those
in use or reserved by the BB. Again, check the video card's user
manual for that information. If you have any other peripheral cards
you may need to check them as well. Something is being loaded into
himem which is why you cannot relocate the bdos to himem.
Now, you also may wish to experiment with locating the bdos elsewhere
in the UMB using emm386.sys using the /B=AUTO. Also be sure that you have used
MEMMAX to disable UMBs after boot (MEMMAX -U in the autoexec.bat). Also, get
rid of EMM.SYS. You shouldn't have more than one memory manager running. You
also shouldn't use HIDOS.SYS because it is intended for use with 286 chips, not
386/486. If you must allocate expanded memory you can do so with EMM386.SYS
using /F=AUTO /K=nnnn, where "nnnn" is the number of kbytes of expanded memory
to be allocated. If you use eliminate the conflict with whatever is trying to
use himem, which is probably the hardcard.
Steve,
I tend to suspect the hardcard, too. I have the Supio
Multi-function card that Dave Cinege of Elite MicroComputers sells.
It works nicely with my NEC 1401P3A multi-sync. I remember checking
his short pamphlet manual and changing one jumper to preclude an
interrupt conflict with the parallel port.
Perhaps the guy who sold me the hardcard will be kind enough to dig out
the manual for me.
Thanks! I'll do some research!
Sincerely,
(Mr.) Gayle Lee Fairless
'Perfessor Fearless' from the Rocket City!
via AutoPilot 1.03a
Gayle,
Be sure you have also disabled the hard drive interface on the
super i/o card as well as disabling the floppy drive controller. If
both of them are enabled, even if you don't use them, you will have
problems. You cannot have two drive controllers running at the same
time withough causing some conflicts.
Steven,
I haven't enabled the IDE interface on the super i/o card. Now I am
using the A: drive connection on the bridgeboard (BB). The setup for the
BB has NONE for the hardcard drives which show as C: and D: (The BB
normally boots off C:). DF0: is a high-density drive shared with the BB
as B: drive.
The guy who sold me the hardcard also bought it used and didn't have
any documentation. As I told you in another message, I left a request for
information from Quantom.
Gayle,
If you only have one hard drive, why do you have two hard
drives enabled in the CMOS setup? Oh, nevermind, I see you have them
both set as NONE. I assume the hardcard is scsi, then, and not IDE.
That may be the source of the problem. Try excluding that memory
segment I mentioned in the previous message. The block between
C000-CFFF is probably where the hard card's controller lives. That
block is typically where most scsi controllers ROMs are placed. When
you say you are using the A: drive connection on the BB, do you mean
you are using an internal PC floppy drive? If you are using the BB
floppy controller, then be sure to disable the floppy drive
controller on the multi-i/o card. The default for this is that the
second set of jumpers is OPEN to disable the floppy controller on the
multi-i/o card. You should also be careful about the serial and
parallel port setups. The second serial port should be configured for
COM3. This is done by jumpering the seventh pair of jumpers on JP4
and removing the jumper on the sixth pair. You should also set JP5 to
use IRQ 5 for the parallel port and NOT IRQ 7 which can cause a
conflict. JP4 should be set up:
o o o o o-o o-o o o o o o-o o-o o o
JP5 should be set up:
o o-o
and JP6 as:
o-o o-o
These settings should disable the floppy and IDE controllers on the multi-i/o
card, switch the parallel port onto IRQ 5, and put the serial ports on IRQs 4
and 10.
I remember switching IRQ7 to IRQ5 on the multi-function card to take
care of the second parallel port. The BB floppy controller is used
for Drive A: and Flipper lets me use DF0: as Drive B: and C: & D: are
on the hardcard. E: is used by SuperStor. F: is the RAMDISK. G-J
belong to the Janus virtual drives.
Gayle,
Then just be sure you haven't enabled the floppy controller on
the multi-i/o. It normally comes unjumpered (OFF). Is the hardcard
SCSI or IDE? Usually if the drives are set to NONE in the CMOS
setup, that means SCSI. If so, you might try what I suggested:
/E=c000-cfff,d000-d7ff just to see if that helps. It appeard that
something was loaded into the c000-cfff blocks, and that's usually
where scsi adaptors locate their ROMs. It could be that emm386.sys
isn't detecting that and auto excluding it. That would be a possible
source of conflict.
Steven,
It looks as though the solution may be near. I'll try it out this
coming week.
96704 S3/NWDOS/DRDOS Memory 17-Mar-94 05:44:45
96688-interrupt conflict
Bill Hill, PCWW 70025,1621 Gayle Lee Fairless 71571,321
Friend Gayle,
The hard card should use either IRQ 14 or 15 (possibly settable
by jumper) and a piece of Upper memory for BIOS which should be
jumpered to c800 0 or higher if you're running VGA. All you then
need do is Exclude the BIOS address range in EMM (C800-????). Good
luck.
Bill.
via AutoPilot 1.03a
Steven,
Guess I'm going to have to look at this interrupt even more closely. I
was trying to avoid opening up my computer, but I may have to look at
possible jumpter positions on my hardcard. I tried the following line:
DEVICE=C:\DRDOS\EMM386.SYS /F=NONE /K=0 /B=NONE /V /E=C000-DFFF /R=AUTO
I also tried the /R=NONE and moving the line below the
DEVICE=SSTOR.SYS line. As soon as the EMM386.SYS became active,
access to the hardcard was lost. The error printout would be ' . . .
could not find <filename> . .' and so forth. It couldn't load the
COMMAND.COM file either. Now a bootable floppy would not have this
error. It would continue booting the BB system, but there would be
no access to the hardcard.
That's good advice to Gayle. I tried fruitlessly to have a hard card
and a hard drive off a separate HD controller in my BB system;
finally called a PC expert who just laughed at me. "Two controllers
in one system? Impossible! What made you think you could do that?"
"Well, I have two controllers on the Amiga side… ." :}
Actually it's possible to have an IDE controller and a SCSI
adaptor both on the PC side. I use the multi-i/o card's IDE
controller for the hard drive and the SCSI to chain onto the Amiga
chain to access the tape and cd-rom drives. They work fine
together. But, I don't think you can do that with two IDE
controllers, although it may be quite possible as long as they didn't
share the same interrupts. It would be possible with two SCSI
adaptors as long as you can set the card's scsi IDs.
Hi Gayle,
The hardcards that caused most of the problems were the early Plus Devt. ones
(pre- XL).
Marion
CROSSINGS
Newsletter for Amiga/PC/Mac compatibility
Marion,
It appears to be a Hardcard 40 for an XT slot. Quantum was quite
prompt in sending a manual. And I didn't even specify urgent on the
voicemail order. Wonder of Wonders! They even spelled my name
correctly!
The data on page A-2 says it takes BIOS address C8000H (CA000H for a
2nd one), DMA channel 3, IRQ5, and ports 320H-323H (324H-327H for a 2nd
one).
Only the EMM386.SYS memory driver is causing a problem. The rest runs
fine. Once EMM386.SYS loads access to the files on the hardcard is lost.
Consequently, I believe it to be an upper memory conflict of some kind.
I've called Novell tech support, and Tim has left the incident report
number open for me. I need to find my MSDOS 5.0 diskettes to try its
memory manager. Since I've ordered the Novell 7 upgrade, its manager may
work better.
If you have details, please let me know.
Sincerely,
(Mr.) Gayle Lee Fairless
'Perfessor Fearless' from the Rocket City!
via AutoPilot 1.03a
Gayle,
Yeah, nobody ever gets my name right, either.
I don't think your theory about EMM386.SYS holds water, unfortunately, because
people were having problems with Plus Hardcards and Bridgeboards right from the
start, with XT Bridgeboards. Let me know if you make any progress…
Marion
CROSSINGS
Newsletter for Amiga/PC/Mac compatibility
> I don't think your theory about EMM386.SYS holds water,
Sorry, Marion,
But your information as it pertains to my system is 'all wet!'
<g,d,&r>
Fortunately, I'm on high enough ground to escape the recent flooding
from all the bad weather.
The 386 bridgeboard (BB) replaced an XT BB. This particular hardcard
ran just fine with the XT BB! It is a Hardcard 40. Now the manual
Quantum sent me does mention a Hardcard 10 and a Hardcard 20. Your
information is probably about one or both of those earlier models.
The EMM386.SYS does cut off access to the hardcard files. Novell Tech
Support has assigned a open incident number to the problem for me.
None, either, or both of HIDOS.SYS and/or Janus EMM.SYS do work with
the 386 BB. HIDOS.SYS parameters have /CHIPSET=NONE and /BDOS=NONE.
Tim (Novell Tech Support) and I are hoping that the Novell 7 EMM386.SYS
driver will work. Once I locate the MSDOS 5.0 diskettes that came with
the 386 BB, I shall try that manager at Tim's suggestion.
Sincerely,
(Mr.) Gayle Lee Fairless
'Perfessor Fearless' from the Rocket City!
via AutoPilot 1.03a