CompuServe Thread

They always ask . . .

18 messages in this thread
#94355From: James Coulter[Mindscape]Mar 29, 1994 9:36 PM
Has anyone else noticed this phenomenon: You are talking with a new acquaintance or a prospective client and as soon as they hear that you do animation they ask . . . "Oh! What kind of computer do you use?!" I prefer to reply with "Whatever it takes to get the job done", but this usually does not suffice. So, I say "primarily PCs". At this point, the person says . . . "My freind has an Amiga. He/She does some really neat stuff with this program called Deluxe Paint . . ." At this point I am fighting to maintain my self-control and not ring the person's neck. Just wondering if anyone else shares these feelings.
#94388From: Ed KellermanMar 29, 1994 11:36 PM
<"My freind has an Amiga. He/She does some really neat stuff with this program called Deluxe Paint . . ." At this point I am fighting to maintain my self-control . . > The PC version of Deluxe paint is much less powerful than the Amiga version. But, it's a program I sometimes like betSADFsdagreet!4sdasd.,adafsad By the way, Deluxe paint is the program recommended to "Imagine" users (an Impulse 3D animation program) for creating bit maps (just like 3DS users use AniPro). I have an animation I like that I did with the 1989 release of Deluxe Paint for the PC. I wanted to create a similar animation with AniPro. After a lot of work I managed to do "Bugs!". Couldn't make it as nice as the DP animation. But out of about 100 animations I have contributed to ASOFT, it is the one that has been downloaded the most times! I did not bother redoing the animation that is currently the second most popular ("Space Tunnel"). What you see is the original, simply converted into a FLC (imported as an *.LBM picture). "CIM World" was also done in 1990 with DP. It has a rendering of the sun with the word "CIM" in it. It includes a very realistic representation of the sun surface (an animated texture). The word "CIM" was deformed into the shape of the sun using one of DP's six different fill types. You cannot do that with Animator, even today. You'd have to use "spherical surface mapping" in 3D Studio to do it! A few months ago I bought the upgrade to my 1989 version (about $20!). Electronic Arts had not added any new tools, just higher resolution, but it is still superior, in some respects, to asdgsafdh4ywq. I used it for two of my prettiest animations: KA109.zip 13 Meg of Gold! KA108.zip 13 Meg of Gold #2! You need a "Kaleidoscope" tool for those. In DP you can do color-cycling with most tools. And, you can see the animation running while you are working on it!!! So, like you <I am fighting to maintain my self-control and not wring the person's neck>. <G> When I asked Electronic Arts where to upload my animations, they said "animations?, we don't bother, try GO GRAPHICS!" The world is full of companies that don't know what their programs can do, or how to market them! Ed K
#94491From: Yost GroupMar 30, 1994 10:16 AM
Ed, did you know that Deluxe Paint was written by one of the two programmers who wrote 3DSr1/2/3? None other than Dan Silva. – G
#94501From: M. G. BATCHELORMar 30, 1994 10:39 AM
<< Ed, did you know that Deluxe Paint was written by one of the two programmers who wrote 3DSr1/2/3? None other than Dan Silva. >> I was wondering if Dan still worked with you, and if so when you were going to mention him WRT Deluxe Paint <g>. I've followed his work since the mid 80's. Great stuff. BILL
#94568From: Ed KellermanMar 30, 1994 2:26 PM
You're kidding! No wonder! Ed K
#94533From: James Coulter[Mindscape]Mar 30, 1994 12:01 PM
Ed, I hope you did not take offense to my statement. My point was that I often encounter a high degree of ignorance about animation in general and about what I can offer. As I said to John Foust, it is the talent behind the software that counts. Unfortunately, 2D graphics have received a bad rep. This is probably because of the great mass of poor work done in 2D both on PCs and the Amiga. And, conversly, relatively little high-quality such as your own. I suppose it can be expected that one will encounter ignorance whenever dealing with anything of an intracate nature — animation being no exception. — James — MAP —
#94632From: Ed KellermanMar 30, 1994 7:49 PM
<I hope you did not take offense to my statement> Of course not, like "Jose Jimenez" (a Latin American TV character in the 60's — the "Grindl," "Get Smart," "Love that Martian" era) would say: "just pushing your leg" (I have a Spanish accent also) but you were talking about Deluxe Paint, my first love affair with animation. Although, as you know, I found my true love later, I just can't forget the nights Deluxe Paint and I spend alone, in my bedroom, sharing my lap…top. ——- Chapter I I'll forgive you if you look at "CIM World" (LCIM.ZIP), one of the animations I am most proud of. I had to do it using only 16 colors.And, as if that weren't bad enough, the colors had to cycle (a color register that was yellow, in one "frame" could be orange in the next "frame"). View that FLC from the palette menu, and watch the first 16 colors while you advance from frame to frame. ——- Chapter II In a message I posted several months ago, I explained how Animator had helped me in my career with IBM. Deluxe Paint did so also. Want to hear the story? La diro, venite in torno a me: For years I had been trying to convince my management to move from mainframes to minicomputers. In early 1990 I was asked to make a presentation on ways to reduce Data Processing costs.Opportunity knocking! At the beginning, my presentation looked just like the ones they saw every day, which were created with a standard mainframe program. Slowly, things started to look different.The first "how did you do that!" came when I showed a "foil" that said: American Sterilizer Co. took the knife to its mainframe operation and grafted on a personal computer network that has become the lifeblood its business In that foil I had drawn a few drops of blood, dripping from "lifeblood" into a puddle. Just drawn, no animation (yet). After the last foil, which by then had birds flying all over, I explained that: – I had used a program that cost $90, – it took only a few days to learn the program – the program ran on a PC, just like the ones we used for terminals! – the PC response time was much better, and more consistent, than the mainframe's – there had been no DP Center Charges – no foils or paper supplies were used or needed – it was not necessary to give up color to reduce costs – we got animation for free – If someone in Europe needed a copy, he could have it in a few minutes by E-mail and see it in color and animated! I finished by showing how the presentation sequence was specified by dragging thumbnail sketches with the mouse. Did I have to show them that I could chose from a variety of transition effects? I don't think so! Did I get to play with more PC toys after that? Guess. Thanks Dan Silva! – ——- Chapter III It was shocking to get the upgrade, after four years, and find that there is still only one animation example: the same one that came with the program in '89! DP for the PC is not considered an animation program. In fact, Electronic Arts later produced "Deluxe Paint Animator." Ed K
#94865From: James Coulter[Mindscape]Mar 31, 1994 11:22 PM
> I'll forgive you if you look at "CIM World" (LCIM.ZIP) < OK, but it has to get in line with the rest of the files I have on my download list. I can only afford to get files once in a while! (I will give it a "1" priority). — James — MAP —
#94461From: ALAN IGLESIASMar 30, 1994 9:17 AM
Haven't heard that one on some time, James. What I have heard though, when talking about computer animation is "Oh, you're not one of people with one of those toaster things, are you?" (many broadcast folks are familiar with the tacky transistions and nasty composite output that characterize *some* toaster productions). I just shake my head and say "Nope. I use my toaster strictly for bagels. All animation is done on 486's!". -Alan
#94534From: James Coulter[Mindscape]Mar 30, 1994 12:01 PM
> "Oh, you're not one of people with one of those toaster things, are you?" < Yes, I get this one too. It goes right along with what I said to John Foust and Ed K. Between ignorance and bad PR regarding 2D animation and effects, it can be difficult to communicate what is really possible. It seems many people I meet think that Disney and ILM are the only ones who can do impressive work with animation. — James — MAP —
#94552From: SyndesisMar 30, 1994 1:04 PM
Well, you can hardly expect your clients to understand exactly what is possible. After all, you're the one in the video business, not them. Although I'm not in the video-making business, I think I'd devote at least one demo tape to showing a spectrum of what is possible. Maybe I'd even super the dollars/second value in the lower left corner.
#94704From: Alex KaramanoglouMar 31, 1994 6:35 AM
Hi John, I would like to know if you liked or used the meshes I submitted to you about three to four weeks ago? I thank you in advance. Alex Karamanoglou Network Graphics & Animations Miami, FL
#94715From: SyndesisMar 31, 1994 8:58 AM
We've had dozens of submissions. We're going to send everyone a postcard acknowledging that we're received their submission at the end of April, when the deadline arrives. After we've made a thumbs-up / down decision, we'll send another card.
#94866From: James Coulter[Mindscape]Mar 31, 1994 11:24 PM
Hey, I like that idea about the dollars per sec in the corner for various work. I will have to chalk that up for the next demo tape!! — James — MAP —
#94909From: SyndesisApr 1, 1994 8:35 AM
I think it's a good idea to acquaint the client with the cost of your work in a passive, oblique sort of way at first… this makes them more comfortable. As they see the different demos, at least they can begin to make the correlation between cost and quality that may be very apparent to your eye, but may not be to them.
#94470From: SyndesisMar 30, 1994 9:49 AM
Hey, you *can* do great animation with Deluxe Paint. Back in 1988 or so, someone had a Siggraph electronic theatre entry presented in 320 x 200, 32 colors, using an early Amiga version of what is now known as Animator Pro. Talk about getting the job done with whatever's around! It made it into the show because it had flair and creativity, and yes, rare as it is at Siggraph, a story line. And yes, these guys are doing "animation" just as much as you are! Some people can't seem to spend their money fast enough. They are hell-bent on using software that isn't out yet, new but unproven tape decks, computers and software that cost as much as their house, but they never realize they'd get better bang/buck by improving their *talents* as opposed to their hardware. There's probably a bell-shaped curve that describes animation pricing. At the thin left edge, there's a few clients demanding ultra-perfect video. In the middle, there's lots more clients demanding cheesy logos, special effects every ten frames, and they may not care that you rendered it by hand in Deluxe Paint.
#94532From: James Coulter[Mindscape]Mar 30, 1994 12:01 PM
You are right, John. Awesome things can be done with 2D animation software. Ed Kellerman is living proof. I think we all know it is the talent behind the software that counts. Moreover, I have nothing against the Amiga, Duluxe Paint, or any other such software. After all, SeaQuest effects are openly accepted as great work by many — myself included. I think what gets to me is when I am underestimated. I do not like to be associated with those "cheesy logos" and toaster effects often (and unfairly) associated with the Amiga. What is worse, many people think that PCs cannot "do animation" because they have only seen EGA graphics on one. As a result, I get relegated to sub-cheese level work before I even have a chance to run my demo. (And when they see it they say "Oh, you mean THAT kind of animation! — WOW!") These are just some observations I have made after noticing a pattern of responses from people. I was just curious if this is a localized phenomenon or if it happens everywhere. — James — MAP —
#94539From: SyndesisMar 30, 1994 12:21 PM
As 2D and 3D tools get more powerful, they're going to fall into the hands of more and more people. Five years from now, I'll bet that the top spreadsheet and/or presentation graphics products in the biggest personal computer market will have 3D engines that produce animations at the quality of present-day 3D Studio, controlled by pre-made, recommended motion paths. Flying logos? Even cheesier, flying bar charts and pie charts. 🙂