CompuServe Thread

#3DS and AutoArchitect

12 messages in this thread
#157137From: CLEMENTEMar 5, 1995 9:31 AM
Is anyone out there using Softdesk AutoArchitect and 3DS together…I am presently using both products but not together…I have not figured out how to render meshes created in AA without having the 2 sided option on…I am also not to thrilled with the translation of the DXF and how entities retain certain attributes…I haven't spent a lot time with it yet but if someone has any suggestions or recommendations I would greatly appreciate them… Thanx in Advance, pHred
#157388From: Jonas Ruikis [ADESK]Mar 6, 1995 4:25 PM
Hi Clemente, << .I have not figured out how to render meshes created in AA without having the 2 sided option on…I am also not to thrilled with the translation of the DXF and how entities retain certain attributes…>> To flip the face normals over and to reduce the number of faces created by outside applications, there is a great IPAS routine to help you out. Please check out the demo version of Optimize… File Info for OPTMIZ.ZIP Section: IPAS Usage Contributor: 76702,413 Size: 97681 Submitted: 5/1/94 Type: Binary Accesses: 306 Title: Yost Group IPAS Optimize real-time mesh reducer. Keys: YOST GROUP IPAS3 OPTIMIZE PXP REALTIME SHADED MESH REDUCTION DEMO This file contains a working version of Optimize pxp, but cannot write meshes back out to the 3D Editor. Optimize features real time shading, interactive flipping of visible surface normals, adaptive geometry reduction and tessellation, and text embedding. It also works with Meshres axp by embedding various resolutions within your object for extraction at render-time. From Yost Group IPAS Boutique Disk#7.
#157446From: CLEMENTEMar 6, 1995 9:30 PM
Jonas, thanx alot for the info on the IPAS routine available for a cleaner DXF translation into 3DS. Have you ever used Auto Architect? What can you tell me about how it works with 3DS. I think Auto Architect is great (aside from a few bugs), but I am just wondering if I should invest the time into using the two together. If you (or anyone else on the board) have any suggestions, recommendations, hints, or opinions, please let me know. Thanx in Advance, pHred
#157451From: Jonas Ruikis [ADESK]Mar 6, 1995 9:46 PM
Hi Clemente, << Have you ever used Auto Architect? What can you tell me about how it works with 3DS. >> I'm sorry but I don't have any experience with that product.
#157498From: Ted BoardmanMar 7, 1995 5:27 AM
Clemente I have used AutoArchitect quite extensively with 3DS and find that the more detailed your AA plans are, the more problems you'll have. Very often I'll save an intermediate file, say, before any windows/doors are in place, and map or boolean the windows/doors in 3DS. Also, many of the 3D blocks from AA must be rendered with 2-sided, just because there are so many flipped faces it's not cost effective to try to correct them. As Jonas mentioned, Optimize is VERY useful on AA models, not only to flip faces, but also to reduce the size of the meshes by optimizing the face count. I find myself creating more and more of the model in 3DS, because of the inherent problems. If the model is for presentation and not for working plans, I use all 3DS. Don't forget the option of importing the 2D outline of a facade or floor plan to the shaper and extruding the required thickness, check out Nancy Fulton's 3D Studio Applied book by Advancestar. Good luck TedB !^NavFont01F0006MGHHJa7DEC
#157617From: Johnson KnowlesMar 7, 1995 5:02 PM
Clemente, I have used AutoArchitect and 3D Studio together since 3DS R1; not really from choice, but because AutoArchitect is used by drafters at our firm. My experience has been very much the same as Ted Boardman. I end up recreating all of the "labor saving" 3D entities AA makes. You might look at FACADE by Eclipse for helping you to make 3D architectural models from AutoCad. I have found it to be easy, fast, and a bargain (approx. $189). I use Facade for large simple parts (walls, roofs, some windows and doors) and 3DS for the more complex bits. Regards, KJK
#157739From: Bob KeeferMar 8, 1995 7:58 AM
We use Softdesk products extensively in our office, but I tend to avoid AutoArchitect for my 3D Studio models because of the face normals problem. Some of their routines use thickness extrusions, and some use 3D faces, but none of them are optimized to work with 3DS. I have talked with their tech support people about it, and it is doubtful they will change anytime in the near future because of the programming headache of trying to draw the objects so that the normals are what one would want in 3DS. I generally cannot afford the overhead of rendering with 2-sided on, so I usually just build all the stuff myself. If you mainly need walls and such, there is a program called Facade (David Cohn can jump in and elaborate) that is good for an AutoCAD add-on that has correct face normals in 3D Studio. I am getting pretty good results these days with R12 DXF files, and I am looking forward to having the 3DSOUT option in AutoCAD R13. If there is anything else I can do, let me know! Bob Keefer, AIA
#157774From: Steve OrmondeMar 8, 1995 11:51 AM
Bob, >> I generally cannot afford the overhead of rendering with 2-sided on << You might want to try using 2-sided MATERIALS instead of the 2-sided button. Use these materials ONLY on the .DXF objects that are giving you face normal problems. The time you save by not modeling something twice (or by modeling with a faster modeling program) will usually more than make up for the time lost in rendering the 2-sided matl. – Steve Ormonde
#158172From: Bob KeeferMar 10, 1995 8:23 AM
Steve: Thanks for the suggestion – I was actually referring to using 2-sided materials as opposed to rendering everything with 2-sided on. I just wasn't very clear, and I agree with your idea. As I get more experienced, I find that I have less trouble with DXFing objects I create from scratch, but objects created with something like Auto-Architect require 2-sided materials if they are used at all. Bob Keefer
#157801From: CLEMENTEMar 8, 1995 2:00 PM
Bob, thanx for the reply. I kinda like Steve suggestions about having the 2sided option on only for the meshes that require it. I am thinking with the proper foresight and prototype drawings setup, many of the materials can be automatically placed onto the meshes by having the ACAD.mli loaded when starting a new 3DS session. The only thing that will be left to be done is to place mapping coordinates. Does having the two sided option really slow down the rendering time? I've tried a couple of tests and found only a difference of 5-15sec. Ted Boardmen had also mentioned FACADE. How does it work? What is primarily used for? Any additional info would be appreciated. This might not be the proper forum, but are you using the standard AutoArch doors and windows or do you have other manufactures? Pella/Hunt windows just sent our office their Designer Series cad files that are supposed to work in Auto Arch, I tried to install them but I could not get them to work. I haven't found time to fool around with them yet. One last note, does Softdesk have a Compuserve forum? Thanx again, pHred
#157984From: Steve OrmondeMar 9, 1995 10:44 AM
>> I am thinking with the proper foresight and prototype drawings setup, many of the materials can be automatically placed onto the meshes by having the ACAD.mli loaded when starting a new 3DS session. << You're on the right track! 🙂 – Steve Ormonde
#158173From: Bob KeeferMar 10, 1995 8:23 AM
pHred: Steve's technique of using 2-sided materials sparingly is a good one. I have suffered slower rendering with 2-sided materials, but I don't have any specific figures available. The number of faces using the materials will naturally affect the results, as will the complexity of the materials (texture maps, reflection maps, etc.). >>Ted Boardmen had also mentioned FACADE. How does it work? What is primarily used for?<< I have tried Facade, and it has some applications for walls, doors, windows, roofs, stairs, etc. The biggest advantage is that all objects are generated with correct face normals. The biggest drawback is that the faces are not efficient in some cases, although you might be able to use Optimize to correct that. >>are you using the standard AutoArch doors and windows or do you have other manufactures? I don't need residential 3D doors and windows, and I often just build the commercial ones I need if I need that level of detail. I haven't tried the Pella or similar products. >>One last note, does Softdesk have a Compuserve forum? They announced in October that they were going to have a forum, but I haven't heard of it yet. I might be able to find out – I'll let you know if I hear anything. Bob Keefer, AIA