#Large vs. Small Carriers
7 messages in this thread
>>And as for carriers, I think that whole strategy is wrong headed. They're
huge targets. I've read arguments for fleets composed of large numbers of
mid-range and smaller ships that make a lot of sense.<<
While such an argument appears to make sense, it is not correct. The argument
goes something like this. With the advent of missle technology, there are now
extremely accurate weapons with a high probability of hitting their targets. It
is reasoned from here that because of the existence of these weapons, we
shouldn't put "all our eggs in one basket" and we should distribute our assets
on a larger number of ships. Some have gone so far as to say that missle
technology is making aviation warfare obsolete.
This last idea is easily countered. Missle technology has not made aviation
warfare obsolete because missles technology can be used by aircraft to counter
the missle technology of the enemy. In other words, no new weapon system is
going to make aircraft relatively more vunerable than other platforms if
aircraft themselves can use the technology. In contrast, consider directed
energy weapons. Current experimentation in directed energy weapons always seem
to require very large facilities. An Airforce experimental airborne chemical
laser weapon does (or did) exist, but it is my understanding that it could only
take enough chemical on board to allow a very few "shots". The Navy has worked
for some time on a chemical laser Fleet Air Defense ship concept. If it
continues to be true that directed energy weapons require rather large
installations, here is a technology that has a potential of impacting the
relative effectiveness of aircraft in warfare.
The problem with the "smaller carrier" line of reasoning is the tacit
assumption that if you have have 100 aircraft on a say 4 small carriers, they
will be as effective as 100 aircraft on one large carrier. This is not true
however. It turns out there is a certain economy of scale when in comes to
aircraft carriers. For instance, the installation of steam catapults and
arresting gear require large ammounts of space. That is why on the small
carriers of the US (in the gator Navy) and the Brits use VSTOL aircraft. But
these carriers, have a number of negative points with respect to the aircraft
on large carriers. These include:
1. Launch recovery rates. I forget the exact figures, but on a modern large
aircraft carrier you can launch and recover aircraft much faster than on a
small deck or even faster than on a number of small decks. Even with short
takeoff ramps, VSTOL jets require more deck space to takeoff than aircraft
catapulted off the deck. A large carrier using all four catapults can shoot
aircraft into the air much faster and this can be of tactical importance. Also,
on large carriers you can recover aircraft at a rate of about one every 55
seconds. It takes longer on a small deck because the aircraft have to land
vertically and this is a delicate thing that must be taken slowly.
2. VSTOL aircraft use too much fuel on takeoff and landing, dramatically
effecting the "legs" or combat operating range of the aircraft.
Another advantage of large carriers in the much larger storage spaces allow
them to operate for longer periods independent of resupply. Large carriers also
allow the operation of larger aircraft. For instance, an F-14 cannot be
effectively deployed off a small deck carrier. There is a dynamic envolving
deck surface area and the ability one has to suffle the aircraft arround the
deck that makes large flight decks important, especially for larger aircraft.
When I was on the USS Midway, we did not have F-14's in our airwing for just
this, and perhaps other, reasons. The F-14 is a very important asset for air
defence of the battle group and a group of small carriers would be without its
services, or the services of a future aircraft with similar capabilties.
As far as large carriers being vunerable, all of the above are factors that
make it less likely that a missle will get through the air defenses and strike
the ship. Let's say some get through anyway. It is a fact that in general,
large ships are more survivable than small ships. A large carrier is more
capable to take hits and keep on fighting, or at least remain sailing to be
repaired and fight another day. The kamakazi experience in WWII bears this out.
A modern missle is quite similar, in some respects, to a kamakazi in terms of
distructive power, when you factor in the relative size of carriers from WWII
to today. Not one of the fleet carriers hit by kamakazis were sunk, but a
number of the smaller "jeep" carriers were. Also, the fact that super carriers
are "huge targets" is not a more important factor due to missle technology. The
important thing about modern missles are their accuracy, ie there ability to
hit smaller and smaller targets. Missle technology actually makes smaller
carriers more venerable, not the larger ones.
I could go on and on, but let me just conclude by saying that even for regional
conflicts with small nations, a large carrier is much, much more effective and
also COST effective than a larger number of smaller carriers.
._ _ _ INTERNET: mshea@math.arizona.edu
| | |ichael _>hea COMPUSERVE: 76665,3360
Very well said!
-Karl
Ditto…
—Stephen—
===On AutoPilot 1.77–With Intel "All over my desk"===
Thank you for the explanation. I do think there's a weakness in your argument
in one spot, however.
You state that advances in missile technology don't significantly affect the
status of aviation warfare as long as said missile technology can be deployed
on aircraft. This is true as far as it goes, because aircraft can shoot down
other aircraft. In this way they defend themselves against missiles. However,
missile technology which is sufficient to knock down planes is not necessarily
sufficient to knock down missiles, which travel much faster than aircraft, and
thus preemptive strikes against other aircraft will not defend against missile
launches from other platforms such as land. Witness the difficulty with Star
Wars – and the reason so many people wanted to go with directed energy weapons
instead of anti-missile missiles like the Patriot system.
Mr. Zombie – now 76375,1776 – Warped again?
While your argument is well reasoned, there are some holes.
>However, missile technology which is sufficient to knock down >planes is not
necessarily sufficient to knock down missiles, which travel >much faster than
aircraft….
True in general, espeicially for small supersonic missles. Some of the Soviet
missles though were/are rather large. Some are almost the size of small fighter
jets and these can be dealt with pretty easily by aircraft with missles.
But some shipbased antimissle systems have a much better chance of shotting
down incoming missles, like the Aegis systems. These are designed to stop the
missles that get through the outer aircraft defenses. The carrier itself also
has some last minute self defense missles and guns (Phalanx), not to mention
electronic counter measures.
>… and thus preemptive strikes against other >aircraft will not defend
against missile launches from other platforms such >as land.
The hard to kill small, supersonic missles have on disadvantage. Relatively
short range. To go fast you have to burn fuel fast. The strategy of defending
the carrier the is to let no missle carrying platforms with so many hundred
miles of the ship, so many hundred depending on the maximum range of the
missles the platform can carry. Most people don't realize this, but even in
peace time, we would not let a soviet aircraft within several hundred miles of
the carrier without being escorted by an armed fighter. As far as land based
missles go, just stay far enough away from the beach. In the Persian Gulf I
imagine the Navy was more worried more about Iran than Iraq. Iran had silkworm
land to ship missles and at one time they were installed at the entrance to the
gulf. I am sure they moved them or our carriers would not have entered, but
they might have tried move them back in secret.
As per you reference to Star Wars, shooting down ballistic missles is much much
harder than shooting down antiship missles. I suppose it would be possible to
create ballistic missles that had smart, fast antiship missles as warheads and
this would be a credible threat. I don't think such weapons exist and I think
they would be hard to make.
._ _ _ INTERNET: mshea@math.arizona.edu
| | |ichael _>hea COMPUSERVE: 76665,3360
What it boils down to is the weighing of a number of highly complex factors,
many of which are based on guesses – which way will technology go, who will
invest in what, what will work, who will buy, etc. It's all hard to say.
However, it is possible, I think, to look at the world and form a rough measure
of present and foreseeable threats, and to come to the conclusion that we're
spending more than we need to. But that is a seperate issue, to a large
extent, from which kind of weapons and platforms are most cost effective and
effective period.
Mr. Zombie – now 76375,1776 – Warped again?
We can argue about this till the cows come home…But i trust the experts in
the pentagon a lot more that anyone in the White House or the Congress. After
all, they've done a fine job of protecting our country for the last 200+ years.
So they must be doing somthing right…:^)
—Stephen—
===On AutoPilot 1.77–With Intel "All over my desk"===