3DS & WFW311
30 messages in this thread
We are contemplating upgrading to 3DS4. I understand that it will utilize
'network rendering'. We are using Windows for Workgroups with ethernet cards
as a peer to peer network only (no server and no Novell). Is it possible to to
use 'network rendering' with the WFW DOS Add-on (ie. NET command). If not, is
it possible to use Novell's various shells (even tho we don't have a server) to
get 'network rendering' to work? I'm inquiring about the Novell part cause we
already have IPX loaded to play DOOM.
thanx
Roland
Hi Roland!
We were able to get WFW and 3ds to work with network rendering and all.
However, it's just not worth it! |) (Way too slow.)
Instead we decided to use Novell Netware Lite 1.1 as the backbone and load WFW
on each machine without any of WFW network drivers. Novell Netware Lite works
very well as a peer to peer solution. (Sharing drives and resources.)
Netware Lite is a great inexpensive soloution and works with virtually any
NE2000 Compatable Network Card.
Hope this helps!
..Earl
Hi Earl!
Thanx for the info regarding Netware Lite. However, I don't think I'll be able
to justify purchasing another network software package. You stated that
getting 3ds and WFW was 'way too slow.' Do you mean slow in communicating with
the slave machines or were the slave machines slow in rendering? I really
don't have a choice, but to make this work now. We've ordered the upgrade now
to 3ds4 and it should be in our office by the end of the work or early next.
Any information on the steps you took to get up and running would be much
appreciated.
Roland
Roland,
WFW will work as a network, however there is a lot of additional memory and
overhad that just does not exist with other networking protocols. That is why a
lot of people might see some performance hits with WFW. Also, if you are
running 3DS in a DOS shell, you might see big performance hits.
What I recommend is having only one machine running Windows, and have your
other machines start the WFW network software from DOS with the 'net use'
command. That way those machines don't have to deal with Windows.
-Brian
Brian;
>> one machine running Windows,
I just purchased WFWG because I was told it worked very well as a peer to peer
system. After spending many hours attempting to get it to run in the DOS only
mode, I am believing that this is not possible. It seems that one MUST have at
least one machine running WFWG. Is this true, or is there a way to use it only
in DOS?
If I must run at least one of them in WFWG, IS THERE REALLY a way to get 3DS to
run in a DOS shell? I have been unable to do so.
Thanks,
Dennis
<< It seems that one MUST have at least one machine running WFWG. Is this
true, or is there a way to use it only in DOS?>>
This is true, at least one machine must be in Windows.
<<If I must run at least one of them in WFWG, IS THERE REALLY a way to get 3DS
to run in a DOS shell? >>
Sure, you can run 3DS in a DOS shell, no problem, it just has a bunch of memory
lost due to running Windows at the same time. Review pages 95-97 in the
installation guide, it details exactly how to set up under Windows.
-Brian
Brian;
>> Review pages 95-97
Thanks for your reply. I called Microsoft, and for a few bucks, you can get
"Workgroup, Add-on for DOS" which will allow one to network DOS machines. Had
I known this, I would have done it first and skipped WFWG's. I have gotten
them to network properly. Now I am reading the manual and 3DSNET.TXT to get
3DS set up correctly. I will also review pages 95-97 as you suggest.
Dennis
<< I have gotten them to network properly. Now I am reading the manual and
3DSNET.TXT to get 3DS set up correctly. I will also review pages 95-97 as you
suggest.>>
Well, If you are running with the DOS version of the WFW drivers, you don't
need to worry about the information on setting up 3DS in a DOS shell (p 95-97).
Of course, if any of your machines are going to run Windows, then you do.
Good luck setting up the network.
-brian
Sorry to jump in uninvited…I was under the impression that the DOS add-on for
W4WG was only a one way deal…. the DOS machine to a W4WG and not back.
If I'm wrong please let me know.
mkh/h3d
Michael;
>> Sorry to jump in uninvited….
No invitation needed here! Jump right in.
Well, I can get WFWG to work with one in Windows, and one in DOS. But not both
in DOS. I can also get "Workgroup, Add-on for DOS" to work both machines from
DOS. It will not work with Windows. Or at least I have not attempted it. I
really don't like Windows (except in UNIX).
So I am at present working through the manual on setting up the 3DS network. I
have been able to get both machines to network render at the same time once.
Since then, only one or the other. I believe it is something I am doing wrong.
That's all I know at this time.
Dennis
I've had great luck getting 3DS running under Windows on some systems -losing
only a few percent of render time. And some systems that I've never gotten to
run! But, you are right -one of your machines will need to be in Windows for
the net to work.
-Paul
PMJI,
I've got to jump in here just to remind you that if you are running 3D studio
in windows and have problems with graphics locking up, it may be due to the
fact that many of the new high powered Graphics Cards and Drivers combinations
make calls directly to the Card and skip the system bios, however the windows
drivers make the call thru the system bios so when you fire up 3D Studio in
Windows it confuses windows due to the seperate calls..bingo, things
lockup….the solution usually is to go to 3D studio and set it up ( 3ds Vibcfg
) to run in Non-Vibrant Drivers. Both VESA and the plane old VGA have solved
this problem for me in the past. So when you go back in to Windows, the
windows driver makes calls through the bios and when you fire-up 3D Studio so
does the VESA or VGA setting in 3DS. Everything works. Of course you have to
run 3D Studio in "Full Window".
I hope this helps!
Murph'
Paul;
>> I've had great luck getting 3DS running under Windows on some systems
Thanks for your reply. I will keep that in mind. I called Microsoft, and was
informed they have a "Workgroups, Add-on for DOS" that allows one to run DOS
machines. I have gotten it up and running. Now I will attempt to get 3DS
running on it.
Dennis
Paul, or anyone;
I have just recently gotten Microsoft Workgroups for DOS to run, and am
attempting to get 3DS to network render. I cannot seem to get two machines to
render the same sequence of frames together.
One will render or the other will render, but not both, unless I give them
separate rendering jobs. What I mean by this, if one is set to render frame
0-20, and the other to render 21-40, this will work, but in different areas of
the animation. If one finishes first, the second will not help the other.
This is with "ANY" on. If I tell both of them to render frames 0-20, only one
will work. Again, with "ANY" on.
I select "any" to render. The network queue will immediately come up with the
Workstation 3DS machine, and if I select "OK" before the slave arrives on the
queue, then set the workstation to slave, the workstation will render.
If I do the same thing, but wait for the network queue to find the slave, and
then press "OK", the slave will begin to render. Even if I then put the
workstation into slave mode, it will not start.
Both systems are in one "section" of the queue. In other words, they are
listed as "computer name", and "computer name" one above the other. Then there
is a line separating the jobs.
I hope I am explaining this ok.
Any help or suggestions are welcome.
It seems like it is only taking the first machine available, and forgetting to
check for any others that are available later. Like I checked "ALL" instead of
"ANY". I also completely stopped the one not rendering and restarted it in
slave mode. It doesn't start rendering as I thought it would.
Thanks,
Dennis
<<One will render or the other will render, but not both, unless I give them
separate rendering jobs. What I mean by this, if one is set to render frame
0-20, and the other to render 21-40, this will work, but in different areas of
the animation. >>
It sounds like you are trying to render FLC files. Only one machine can work
on an FLC file at one time…it is only one file. Set 3DS to render to GIF or
TGA files, and then process the GIFS into an FLC when you are done.
This is one of the tips in the 3DSNET.TXT paper. If you haven't
already…download it from the forum libraries.
-Brian
>> It sounds like you are trying to render FLC files.
Thank you Brian!
You are so right. I read the entire 3dsnet.txt at one time, but I have only
been searching it for what I thought I needed, and obviously missed that part.
I tried it and it works wonderfully! I also looked in the 3dsnet.txt file, and
sure enough it says you cannot do what I was trying to do. I thought maybe I
had a dated copy of 3dsnet.txt.
Thank you very much. It is so nice to be able to get help from people on the
forum.
Dennis
<<It is so nice to be able to get help from people on the forum.>>
Who me? I'm not people…I work here! <g>
Glad you are up and running.
-Brian
Dennis,
I've been offline for a couple of days and just got your message. I'm glad to
see you got everything straightened out with help from Brian -he's the expert
on these things.
Good luck, Paul
Paul;
Thanks for replying. While I have your ear (eyes) 🙂 , I have another
question. Since I am new to net rendering, I am discovering some things I
hadn't considered before. I have two machines and they are connected via
Microsoft's "Workgroup Add-on for MS-DOS" peer to peer, and they are working
fine. However, when one computer finishes rendering and begins to put it to
the "network" drive on the other machine, it takes about 45 seconds to transfer
the file over the network. The local computer (with the hard disk on it) only
takes about 4 seconds to save the file. It appears that the rendering on the
one receiving the file stops while the file is transferred to the HD. Is this
true?
I believe that if I rendered local, this problem would be temporarily solved,
but then I would have to transfer the files at the end anyway, so the net
result seems the same. Is this correct?
If I had a dedicated server(where all net rendered images were stored), would
that resolve my problem, or would I then be stopping two slaves from rendering
while the file was being transferred? Are there other items I am overlooking
in this?
All comments (from all people) on this are welcome.
Dennis
Dennis,
PMJI, I've been up for a while now with 5 machines net rendering 3DS and
WFW3.11. I've tried all of the different configs – I think what you're seeing
is just the fact that trying to render and save files is a computer resource
hog. You're not really stopping processing on the slave machine when another
slave is trying to save a file there, you're just asking it to do so much it
slows way down. On my network, I have my server in WFW all of the time – this
machine receives all of the network rendered files… Obviously, nothing is
going to be as fast as saving a file locally, but depending upon the speed of
your machines and network hardware, it won't be that long a wait. As far as
I'm concerned, anything beats going back after and copying files over…
Try routing your network path in 3DS to your server – you'll get better
performance from your slaves by not making them perform double duty of
rendering and saving files to each other…
Hope this helps!
Happy networking…
-Glen
Glen;
>> Try routing your network path in 3DS to your server – you'll get
>> better performance from your slaves by not making them perform double duty
>> of rendering and saving files to each other…
At this time, I only have two machines, so one must be a renderer, and also a
place to save the files. One saves locally, and the other saves over the
network. If I understand correctly, what you are saying is that if I have a
dedicated server things will go faster. Is that correct?
Can a dedicated server pull files off of the system faster than what I am
currently experiencing? About 40 seconds for one meg over the network vs 4
seconds direct to the HD. Will this time be 20 seconds or 10 maybe to a
dedicated server?
Thanks,
Dennis
Paul, or anyone;
Is it possible to remotely start 3ds on a "slave" from the "server" in a peer
to peer or even a server/slave environment? If I change to the 3ds directory
on the slave and type 3ds, it starts on the server, and then gets all confused
because I have a different video card in the server. I would like to be able
to remotely start and stop 3ds slave(s) from the server if possible.
Thanks,
Dennis
Hi Dennis,
I too have the DOS add-on. I can get several machines running in the DOS
workgroups. However, when I go to network rendering to select a waiting
computer, none can be found. Did you run into this problem? If so, how did
you go about solving it? All I get is ANY and that is it.
Thanx
Roland
Roland;
>> All I get is ANY and that is it.
That's what I got at first. I don't specifically remember what it was, but it
seems that you don't have your other computer set up to be looking in the
"network" directory in 3DSNET.SET. I just read the manual, and the 3DSNET.TXT
file I downloaded from the forum. It was a slow process, but it finally
worked. 3DSNET.SET is the key, and the network directory is also key. When
you do get there, don't render to "flics". Render to GIF's, or TARGA's. Flics
will only allow one machine to render at a time.
Dennis
Dennis
Well I appreciate you pointing me in the right direction. I'll re-read the
manual on 3dsnet.set and check out the "network" directory and see what
happens.
thanx for the info
Roland
*** Flics will only allow one machine to render at a time. ***
Though one can break up the net render jobs into FLIC segments of the total
then piece them together in ANI PRO.
bill
Bill;
>> Though one can break up the net render jobs into FLIC segments of the
>> total then piece them together in ANI PRO.
Right you are!
Dennis
Hi Dennis,
Dove right into looking up info on the 3dsnet.set at work today. I finally got
network rendering to work through WGAO. It actually works quite well, with
reasonable speed.
Many thanks on pointing me in the right direction!
Roland
Roland;
>> It actually works quite well, with reasonable speed.
I thought so too. I've only had this capability for a week myself.
Glad I could help.
Dennis
Way to slow…Meaning rendering time. There's another problem too and that's
the amount of memory WFW uses. You'll find your projects swapping to disk much
quicker in that enviroment…
Hopefully Gary and Co. will have an NT solution soon! (Rubbing hands together
in anticipation.)
..Earl