#Neo-Nazi's and Amigas
32 messages in this thread
I watched something different last night. On Prime Time Live, there
was a report on Neo-Nazi's and violence in Germany. It seems the KKK
is helping out, for profit. The interesting thing was that during a
part of the show, they showed some pro-Nazi computer games being
played. One was a Q&A type! They showed an Amiga 500 very
prominantly. I was even able to read AMIGA on the upper right of the
case. That is the kind of publicity that will never sell Amigas.
Commodore really needs to do something to counter that image. Why is
it the only news the Amiga can make is bad?
The news wasn't on the Amiga…it was on the Neo-Nazis.
Because they happened to use an Amiga does 0 plus or minus for the
Amiga's image. I mean these people eat food too…does that mean
that now food has a bad name?
On this one I must agree with you (nice for a change, huh?)… Had a
Macintsoh been pictured in the report, I'm sure many people would
have grimmaced…but, come on, how many folks out there have ever
HEARD of an Amiga, no less are familiar enough with it to recognize
one when they see it 🙂
You don't have to recognize it, just read the name off it. Then see it in
a store with the same name. It's called subliminal suggestion.
But how many people would even read the name of the computer? A quick
survey I carried out today suggests that the vast majority of people would
not be in the least interested in finding out what make of computer was
being used; and if they thought about it, they would assume it was an IBM.
Who but Amiga users would be more interested in discovering what computer
was being used, rather than in what it was being used for?
>Subliminal suggestion…
I've heard that this has been banned from advertising; I've also heard
that it doesn't work.
No, I'm not a nazi sympathiser – I switch off whenever I hear the word
'national' – National Socialist, National Front, whatever.
Shraddhan – via Whap! from Hertfordshire, UK
Sharddhan,
I appreciate your comments, Subliminal Suggestion as such was (I believe)
outlawed. I think because it was too effective! There are other forms of
subliminal suggestion however. What about the nice thin, tanned women and
men on the beach drinking their favorite "Light Beer"! Or the toothpaste
commercial that espouses smiles as being SEXY merely because they have
clean white teeth from using their product. And then driving the point
home by showing scantily clad people kiss passionately on camera. The
medium is the message.
Short note to you, Shraddhan, what is your last name. If the SYSOP hasn't
told you yet, we use full names on this and all Amiga Forums.
Rodger
– via Whap!
If you read the book "Subliminal Seduction", the author asserts that your
belief is widespread……and wrong. The author asserts that there are NO
LAWS anywhere in the United States of America against subliminal
advertising.
BROADCASTING of subliminal messages is illegal under FCC regulations. The
FCC implemented these regs after some political candidate tried subliminal
messages to get voters to vote for him (he lost).
Subliminal messages are used daily in malls and stores under the background
Muzak with messages like "Do not steal" and "Shoplifting is a crime". I am
not aware of State or Federal laws that prohibit subliminal messaging, but
that doesn't mean they don't exist.
There is a program here on CIS (at least there WAS) written by Khalid that
allows you to experiment with subliminal messages on your Amiga. It is a
primitive program, but it gives a nice example.
-Chas
Charles, The program you're speaking of wasn't written by Khalid but by
Steve Tibbett.
-sja
Like the broadcast or news media, I don't put alot of credance in just one
author's opinion. I would like to read the book if you can give me the
author's name and publisher. Is he a Psychologist/Psychiatrist or a flunky
of the Advertising Industry? The add industry wouldn't make as much money
as they do if the adds didn't work. What, by definition is "Subliminal
Suggestion?" I don't have a dictionary handy, but it should have something
to do with the attempt to direct, manipulate or cause to happen an action
which would not have occurred without the suggestion, without the person
being manipulated knowing the manipulation is occurring. How many times
have you been listening to the radio (but not really) and a tune seemed to
just appear on your whistle. Then, for the rest of the day, you whistled
that same tune until suddenly you realized everyone around you was
whistling the same tune. Maybe, you noticed it because one of your
co-workers asked you what that tune was.
Or how about watching TV and suddenly getting hungry or thirsty. Were
you really? How about the possibility that the last commercial you didn't
watch (Who really watches them anyway?) just happened to be a beer
commercial and the exact same drink you wanted was a beer. The point is
that the target has to be unaware of the suggestion, otherwise they think
it is what it is, an attempt by the advertiser to sell it's product.
My 40 years of life and experience tells me that there is something to
subliminal suggetion. That is why I want to read the book you mention and
see if the author has enough proof.
Rodger
– via Whap!
"Let's say you were thinking about shrimp, and then someone says, plate –
get it, shrimp plate…"
ah, repo man ! don't forget too, the strange pine tree car freshners, and
the refrigerator full of generic food…:) btw, i know this should be
posted over in your ven forum but… my brother may be doing some high end
modeling on an Indigo, using a program which exports wavefront format. We
would like to render these objects in Lightwave. I Is it true we can in 2.0
? are there any major limitations, conversion problems, etc. ? and will
Interchange also have this feature ? thanks, kevin
Rodger,
Boy, did YOU misread my message. I said the author asserts… that
not only are there NO laws AGAINST subliminal advertising, but… that the
practice is widespread. The title of the books is… "Subliminal
Seduction". I do not remember the author's name (I read… the book maybe
10 years ago). The book IS somewhere in the house, but… I don't think I
can find it quickly.
I think I'd put the "Quack" stamp on that book – its assertions are a
bit wacky. Recently, people were seeing the face of Christ in a pile
of spaghetti on a billboard. Naked bodies in ice cubes and fried
clam strips is stretching it, don't you think?
John,
Yes, it's stretching it. But given my opion of the advertising
industry, not unbelievable.
I'll say I misread it. I get the message clearly now.
Rodger
– via Whap!
Rodger,
The main theme of this book (if my memory hasn't totally gone) is that
advertisers embed sexual themes subliminally in ads to get you to act on
them. The author doesn't suggest (that I recall) that the reader/viewer
would be unaware (s)he was was looking at an ad.
Vic,
I think that is a rather limited view of Subliminal messages on the
author's part. The author probably blew it by concentrating on the Sexual
Sublimality (?) instead of mentioning them as one aspect of Subliminal
messages. The message could have been more in the line of a message in
just above or below the aural frequency range that kept repeating a message
such as "You're thirsty. You need a beer!" which could also have been
reinforced with a visual message being flashed every 120 micro-seconds.
Or more straight forward, a commercial advertising "Close-up tooth
Paste" where their slogan was keyed towards making the consumer buy the
tooth paste because they could be more sexy it they did. A more mental
message than a concealed one.
I guess my point is that like commercials on the tube, subliminal
messages can take many forms, Sub/super-aural, visual, mental, etc. They
can be just as blatant as a high pressure salesman trying to sell you a
cheap "diamond " ring by telling you that your mother would no longer love
you if you didn't buy the ring for her.
Rodger
– via Whap!
Rodger,
The title of the book "Subliminal Seduction" clearly limits the topic.
The premise of the book is that you are being seduced (sexually) by the
subliminal images/words in advertising.
If you read the book "Subliminal Seduction", the author asserts that your
belief is widespread……and wrong. The author asserts that there are NO
LAWS anywhere in the United States of America against subliminal
advertising.
My absolute last word on this issue is that I am mad that the only
broadcast media type exposure the Amiga has had that I have seen in the
past two years has been a negative one. I guess I just haven't had enough
time for the tube to see the advertising blitz that Commodore did and all
the Amiga magazines talked about. My intention in this thread wasn't to
cuase a controversy, it was to get it off my chest. Thanks to all that
helped me do so.
Rodger
– via Whap!
There are people that will base their decisions on what they see or
don't see on TV/News. Those people will not buy Amiga because they are
"Nazi" machines/tools. Granted, not all people would do that. I wouldn't.
I assume you wouldn't. Look at the number of people that buy clones or
IBMs because they don't know enough about the Amiga and they want a
computer NOW! My point isn't what I or you would do. It is what the
majority of consumers in the U.S. will do based on ignorance. I don't mean
that the U.S. population in general is ignorant, just uninformed about
computers and programmed by the news media to react based on their reports.
(I hope I am selling the population short!) But, I've been all over the
country and all around the world, and American's (God bless us all), for
the most part, have a very narrow view of the world, it's called TV. So if
it's on the tube it must be true!
I don't mean to step on toes, so if I have, I want to apologize ahead of
time. For the record, I've been labeled as a "liberal" by a local bulletin
board here in Oklahoma because I believe in letting everyone be responsible
for their own lives. What we sew, so shall we reap! (cliche)
I have to admit, that being in the military makes me a little bit more
informed about the international community and the trend in Germany and the
Ex-Soviet Bloc has me concerned. I know the German's well enough that if
the government is not behind the "Nazi" movement, it will be slowed, but
not stopped. It has lasted for over 60 years (probably longer.) What
concerns me isn't what we see on the news, it's what they aren't showing. I
was in Panama for a little known Exercise called (NIMROD Dancer) and saw
the real situation there after Enadara and Ford were beaten by Noriega's
PDF. The news media sensationalized that one, but they missed alot of the
real story until after "Just Cause."
That's pure paranoia. Just as many people will buy Amiga's
because these neo-nazi's had one as won't buy one because they had
one. And the sum total in either direction could be counted on one
hand I'm sure.
These people use the same types of things you and I
use…food, water, clothes, TV's, telephones, computers, etc. None
of them are classified as "Nazi" tools, they're just tools and/or
needs.
What people will see, and endorse or avoid…is certain forms
of behavior. If all the neo-nazis had a "N" tattooed on their
hand…then folks who wouldn't want to be associated with
them…wouldn't have that tattooed on their hand. Those that did
want to associate with them would.
The KKK wears sheets, and folks who don't want to be
associated with the KKK don't wear sheets…but that doesn't stop
them from buying sheets. And even if you could identify that the
sheets one of them wore were a particular brand…I assure you…that
wouldn't stop anyone from buying that particular brand.
What would hurt is if some company endorsed their actions by
donating product or by using them in an advertisement. That, of
course, is not being done by any company.
Don
Don, let's not forget that CBM's overwhelming marketing and advertising
hasn't exactly inflamed the public into a buying frenzy. Such meager
exposure for the Amiga, albeit in a poor context, is surely overwhlmed byt
eh good press it receives!
Michael
Yes Don,
I agree it is pure paranoia! That is (after all) part of my job. Anyone
associated with a military learns early on about the paranoia of
governments. It's only natural that it carries over after 20 years. (Time
to get retire.)
I se your point and understand everyone else's. After answering the
messages left in this thread I am done concerning this issue. I will only
stop buying Amiga when Commodore (or another Company) stops making them.
Rodger
– via Whap!
I think this thread is a little alarmist with respect to the public
identifying the Amiga with Nutzies. I saw the show, and when the
anouncer mentioned the Nazi computer games, I knew that an Amiga
would be shown. I had read about the game in one of the Amiga
magazines several months ago. Since I was primed, and already knew
what was coming, I recognized the Amiga. If I had not known of the
game before hand, and known that Amiga is one of the most popular
machines in Europe, I would not have even seen the Amiga. If you
took a poll of the people who saw the show who do not have an Amiga,
I will bet that 99% would name the computer used as an IBM PC or
clone. If more than a dozen recognized the Amiga (even with the name
visible for a second or two on screen) I would be supprised. The
Nazi's using an Amiga no more taints Amiga as a Nazi tool than the
seen which showed one of them driving a VW.
Bill Roberts in Ellettsville In. via Whap!
Bill,
Now that you mention it I read that somewhere also. I guess I'm just
too ticked off at the MSDOS crowd for thinking they "did it first" to see
reason (in the short term anyway.) You're right that the Amiga is one of
the most popular platforms in Europe, so it stands to reason it would be
the tool of choice.
Rodger
– via Whap!
Rodger–
A couple of comments…
First, I would love to know more about the Panama thing…love to get the
straight skinny from ordinary folks…don't trust the government or the
news media.
Second…what kind of machines were on the desks of execs at BCPI? Or
on Neil Bush's desk? Or, for that matter, probably most of the folks that
were involved with the Saving&Loan debacle? Probably PC's…of course,
most folks would never make that kind of connection…
Jonathan
– via Whap!
Jon,
Good point. I'll bet more blue collar crime has been committed with an
IBM or clone than any other computer platform to date.
As for more about Panama, the day I drove my 5 Ton Truck off the C-5A
onto the tarmac at Howard AFB, I reported to the 1st Sergeant that was in
charge of the Artillery Battery I'd be working with and was promptly asked
by the guy waht we were dressed for war for? He was dressed in cut-offs
(which I'd have traded for in a heart beat), a t-shirt and a baseball cap
and had atleast a six pack of bud under his belt. He remarked that after
the gang fight (that's what he called the attack on Endara and Ford)
nothing occurred.
It did get tense once when I went to a joint military post to the Class
VI (Package) Store to get some Panamian or Cuban Cigars for one of my
bosses on the Caribean side of the Isthmus. We drove by the PDF Barracks
(the one that had a hole the size of a 5 ton truck blown in it during
"Operation Just Cause") where Noriega was giving a party to his employees
(if they got drunk for free they wouldn't worry about their pay checks!)
The crowd saw us and some of them separated toward us. (We had no
bullets!) And started yelling "Viva Noriega!" We increased our speed and
got out of there to avoid an international incident (and a tail whipping!)
Rodger
– via Whap!
I think that consumer recognition of the Amiga is so low in the US that
probably the only ones who knew it was an Amiga were Amiga users.
Bill,
I certainly did!
Rodger
– via Whap!