#CBU Takeover for REAL?
39 messages in this thread
I'm a little surprised to see nothing on this 'news story' up here on
the 'news and rumors' section tonight. FACT – Commodore stock trading
was halted today for about 1/2 hour due to takeover rumors. FACT –
Commodore won their IRS battle the other day. At that time the stock
was down to 13. It immediately gained up to 14 or so. FACT –
Commodore was today's most active issue (or nearly so) and climbed up
to 15.75 on the takeover rumor. RUMOR – The takeover suitor rumored
to be Nintendo. FACT – Commodore executives were unavailable for
comment. FACT – Ninentend is SWIMMING in cash. Commodore ain't doing
so bad either – at 13 to 15 its stock price must look awfully
attractive to a takeover planner. I occasionally watch the TV stock
exchange programs briefly during the day. Usually I can watch for
hours and not see CBU go flying by on the 15-minute delayed ticker
display. Today I turned it on and CBU went by every 10 or 20 seconds.
FACT – trading was resumed after sufficient supplies of shares became
available for making a market. FACT – CBU closed at 15.625 on
3/26/92.
Actually, I heard that one of the business networks was saying NEC was
the company rumored to be interested in taking over Commodore.
Which wouldn't be all that great, IMHO. NEC isn't exactly a bang-up
marketer in the US themselves. (Monitors, sure, and printers to some
degree; but not consumer products [TG-16], which is essentially what
the Amiga is.) And if it were NEC, their business and entertainment
divisions are separate, and I'd bet it would be the less successful
entertainment division.
Although a hand-held LCD Amiga game machine would be cool. 😉
(And if it's true, NEC sure beats PlaySkool.. 🙂
Still, I've been hearing takeover rumors since 1982…
I've also heard the earlier rumors about Sony and NEC. Nintendo does
make sense as they have no computer market presence and are
positively swimming in cash. If they could do for the Amiga what
they've done for home video game systems we might all be surprised at
the results. Whomever handles the Amiga in the future, I'll be
delighted if it can be made to grow faster and become a more
important presence in the market. The key may really be that the
Amiga is still the only 'video' computer. It is the first product
that ever integrated video into its design from the get-go. Some say
we'll all soon see the marriage of TV and computers – The Amiga
really was the pioneer in that. Perhaps others have noticed.
My prediction-
IF (note big letters) IF Nintendo takes over Commodore, they will dump the
Amiga computer line and sell only CDTV with special developer kits (HD and
key boards) to limited, hi-fee paying delvelopers.
wmc
> they will dump the Amiga computer line and sell only CDTV <
I suppose J.C. Whitny will have to open up an Amiga section in their
catalog.
Charlie – A Whapper! from Holland
Charlie,
more like Wag-Aero – they still have J-3 cub and Air-Knocker parts!
wmc
what makes you so negatively disposed towards nintendo? what makes you so
sure you know what they'd do with CBM? just jumping to conclusions?
I'm not negative to Ninetendo. I'm realistic. I am not jumping to
conclusions. I'm making wild-a** guesses (a la Bandito – do you get
upset with him too?) I believe I made that abundantly clear in the
message.
From the point of view of the Ninetendo executive. 1) My name is
established as the leader in electronic games. 2) the business I know
and make bundles in is games. 3) Small computers is a high overhead,
low profit, effort intensive business and I don't need the headaches
associated with a machine which has an established reputation as not
a serious computer, fit only for games. 4) I should take advantage of
the game reputation of the Amiga (remember, I'm thinking like a
Ninetendo executive, not an intelligent techno-nerd) and drop the
loosers (A2000 and up) and sell A500's at current price and CDTV at
about half current price (flood CD-I out before it becomes to big).
5) I might be Mr. nice guy and continue to license the chipset to
NewTek and the A2000 motherboard prints if they want to take over
production to sell only as fully configured Toaster Workstations. I
would not provide tech support for the hardware wonce produced or for
any software.
That is a plan I'm sure I could sell my board of directors on. With IBM,
Apple and clone makers, the small computer market is too crowded to make
any serious money in without expending more effort than we would for a
similar profit in the game arena.
wmc
interesting point of view. I give Nintendo more credit for
intelligence than you, though. I don't think Nintendo got where they
are by lacking nerve or vision. Precisely what are needed if they
were to take on the Amiga, CDTV, etc. line. Who knows, though. This
is probably all academic.
I think the 'Bandito' is best when reporting rumors of upcoming new
products worst when making commentary about CBM. First of all, it is
always at least 3 months out of date – which is a long time as CBM
changes faster than the weather in Chicago! I no longer have the
patience to deal with all the 'I'm down on Commodore' comments from
Amiga owners. It isn't my company – I own my own and that's where I
get to have my druthers. If 1 tenth of the people who want to see
Commodore 'do more marketing' or 'get their act together' or etc.
etc. would develope one great product instead of griping, their
impact would be much greater (and I mean an Amiga-related product).
Remember, the reason all those AppleII's were sold was because of
VisiCalc. And Lotus 123 sold IBMs when there was a lot of feeling
that the IBM would have a tough row to hoe against Apple. What we
need are more great Amiga programs and peripherals, not griping
moaners who can't have any say at CBM cause they don't own enough
stock to ever have a say.
CBM makes dough for its owners, that's what its purpose is – not to
please Amiga owners who think company policy ought to be dictated
from their arm-chairs and who have no financial stake in the outcome.
I have my own opinions about CBM also, and many coincide with the
gripers in some cases – I just think I'm better off working on new
Amiga products than taking the time to gripe in writing to some
publication about something which I have no control over. Obviously
I also like to expound in this forum from time to time. Thanks for
the thought-provoking reply!
Dan,
__NICELY__ said!!
thanks, Vic – what was it I said? Golly – a week has gone by and I've been
deeply stewed in a new version of NeuroPro. Whew – nifty but I lost the
train of though on CBM takeover. This new NPro is going to be a
powerhouse!
Your criticism (Let 'em develop better Amiga programs instead of whining)
makes sense only directed at the probably 1% of Amiga users who are also
developers. The vast majority of Amiga users are not programmers or
developers; they still have the right to complain about the direction, or
lack of same which Commodore takes. When you buy a computer, especially a
"cult" computer like the Amiga, you are sort of like a pseudo-stockholder
with an interest in how the company which produced your machine is doing.
Also. you'd be surprised at how many Amiga owners also actually own stock
in Commodore. I know quite a few Commodore share holders, both Amiga
owners and non-owners, none of whom is happy with the way Commodore runs
things. If users didn't make their views known, Commodore would have no
idea about their feelings, which should be important to anyone who runs a
company of any kind. This ignoring of the public is to a large extent
responsible for the problems which Commodore finds itself in.
Don
As D.T. Suzuki once said – There's room for both of us in this world.
Thanks for the counter-reply. I stand by my comments. I think I'm just
tired of hearing the endless drone of moaning and groaning about CBM. It
does absolutely no good whatsoever. Don't know how to program? Why not??
It's easy!
I didn't say I didn't know how to program – I do. As a matter of fact I've
earned my living at it at various times. That doesn't mean it's practical
for me to develop an epoch-making Amiga application as the only justifiable
means of criticising Commodore. As for the "endless drone of moaning and
groaning – it does absolutely no good whatsoever." – I think one can make
quite a case for it doing quite a bit of good – even Commodore has been
responsive to one degree or another to its customer's complaints, as any
business must if it is going to be successful. One can even say that any
of the positive changes Commodore has made (2.04, the development of a new
chip set, etc.) has been at least in part due to users' "moaning and
groaning."
Don
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I have a feeling Commodore
makes its advances in technology (2.04, new chip sets, etc.) regardless of
customer complaints! Nobody stands still in this business. I have a
feeling any customer who thinks CBM made 2.04 because they were responding
to customer complaints is like the rooster who thinks his morning cry is
what makes the sun rise. Somewhere up there in the lofty reaches of CBM
management, perhaps the faint din of dissatisfied customers eventually
reaches a decisionmaker, but … I think those guys at CBM are marching to
their own drummer most of the time. Regardless – if you can program,
please, PLEASE develope something GREAT for the Amiga. Don't hide your
light under a barrel! Thanks for the too and fro.
Why bother programming? For less money and less time, one can find better
applications on an inexpensive IBM clone. I think Amiga owners have the
right to complain. They pay more money for their machines than an
equivalent IBM clone platform and get sh*t for software. Of course I am
not speaking of video software for the Amiga. A lot of this software and
hardware is the best available on any platform. However, if you want to
compare spreadsheets, word processors, and databases, the Amiga doesn't
hold a candle to an IBM platform. Not even you could write software as
feature filled as what is already available for the PC unless you want to
spend the rest of your life writing software rather than getting things
done.
Tim
Timothy,
Ever USED much PC software? Sometimes I use Word for Windows on a PC. Sure,
it's got more features than most people ever need, but it's dog-slow
compared to even the pokey Amiga word processors. And the text-based PC
word processors, which are the only speedy ones, become massive kludges
when you get to the point of needing extra fonts or graphics inset in your
document.
The grass is always greener on the other side. Every computer has its
problems. I'll take sometimes-substandard apps any day for the pleasure of
running them on Amiga hardware under a fast, reliable multitasking OS.
I have to agree with Denny on wordproccessing. Of all of the millions of
features that are available in WP, I only use a small fraction. Of those
features, the vast majority are available in my amiga wordprocessor
(ProWrite).
Spreadsheets are another matter altogether.
Bill
– via Whap!
How is it then, that one of the best databases for the IBM/Windows platform
is also on the Amiga? (From which platform it originated…)
Regards, Whap!penned…
Pat @Oxxi (310) 427-1227
Timothy,
Excuse me, but Superbase Professional 4 is VERY close (and getting
closer, from what I hear) to Superbase 4 for Windows. If that isn't a
professional class quality database, then nothing is. Pro Calc seems to be
a pretty good spreadsheet package. As for word processors, I don't know.
I'm a programmer type, so I always just use a text editor :-).
Darin, SPC Superbase Technical Support
> Why bother programming? <
Because I enjoy programming. Because I think I can make a living at it.
Because the Amiga is, most of the time, a joy to program. I disagree on the
ability to write feature-filled software for the amiga; one thing the amiga
has that even a comparatively priced clone does not, is Arexx, as
implemented on the Amiga. With Arexx and a multitasking frame of mind,
software can be made to do things that _cannot_ be done on a monotasking
clone, even under Windows (I use 3.0). I've seen some incredible things
accomplished with almost no effort at all. The IBM personal line of
computers were originally designed around a 'business engine'; ie, software
that performed tasks associated with business (wordprocessing,
spreadsheets, databases). The Amiga was designed around a 'creative
engine'; ie, software that allowed the individual the power to create
(graphics, desktop _publishing_, presentation, communication). The tools to
do these things are not only more capable than their clone counterparts,
but usually much more affordable, as well. Whining about the Amiga not
having as good of databases, spreadsheets and wordprocessors (a subjective
comparison if ever there was one) is like saying that your pickup is better
than a ferrari because a ferrari can't carry as much manure.
–Eet–
That is one scenario, but what is it that would make CBM valuable to
Nintendo? If all they wanted to do was sell a slightly modified A500,
I'm sure they could work out a deal with CBM to do it much more
cheaply and with much less risk on their part.
The way I see it, the only thing that gives CBM value IS the A3000 and
the newer technology.
Just my opinion, but, depending on the buyer, C='s non-US distribution
network could be its most valuable asset.
Rob.
Good point. I only wish that it was it's US distribution that gave it
value.
Bill
– via Whap!
Wonder if Nintendo can afford to buy baseball teams as well as CBM?
But Bill,
You're a techno-nerd, not a marketdroid. Marketdroids look at numbers. How
big is the A3000 market let alone the A3000 game market. And Ninetendo
ain't stupid. Would a company with the reputation of THE Game company buy
a computer company with a reputation for making great game machines if they
were going to try to crack the seerious cpmputer market? That is, a market
hat is closed to all but PC clones, Macs and high priced Unix
workstaitions? Me thinks not!!
At best, they'd be looking for a hardware configuration to drive arcade
version virtual reality games, pssiblyu multi-player VR games.
Hmmm, that brings up and interesting concept – hand held VR games :^}
wmc
I look at Nintendo as a consumer electronics company rather than simply a
game machine maker. How many more game machines can one country buy? I
don't know, but I would bet that Nintendo has a good guess of when they
expect to hit that saturation point and they would like to get into new
ventures.
CBM has a good product at (until recently) a good price. Nintendo could
move into the CD ROM machine business and the home computer market very
easily. As far as dumping the higher end machines, I think that a 16bit
Nintendo can give an Amiga 500 a serious run for its money right now, as
far as game playing is concerned. Why would they sink truckloads of money
into old technology,.. technology that they obviously already have.
If they do want CBM for the ultimate game machine then the VR concept may
be valid. But VR demands much more than a 68000 at 7.14mhz.
Bill
– via Whap!
Gee, I have been hearing take over rumors since the early 80's
including people such as RCA (remember when they were in the computer
business). As much as I might like to see it happen, I will believe
it the day that it happens and even then it might take a couple of
weeks to sink in…
The main difference this time is that CBU stock *was* the most
actively traded NYSE stock, so it's not just a small group of
Amigoids doing the talking. I saw the Thursday Nightly Business
Report (PBS) who didn't specify the partner but did mention takeover
rumors driving the activity.
It is my understanding that no one can obtain a majority position in
CBU without Irving Gould selling some of his stock. I don't know if
he's willing to do that — at his age and salary, he certainly
doesn't need the cash.
A takeover of CBU would not necessarily be a good thing for Amiga
owners. I remember how excited the Atari world was with Tramiel took
Atari off Warner's hands.
quite right about the stock. I, like others, have heard takeover
rumors for awhile – but this seemed to ring more true. There are
other rumblings I won't go into. The merits of a takeover are
two-edged. Might be good, might not. Were it Nintendo trying to get
into the computer biz with a superb lower end 'game machine' (the
A500) to boot, they might do a super job marketing the whole Amiga
line (most of CBM's revenue these days). It would give them entre to
Europe computer market, too. Any company that can do what Nintendo
has done might be able to make CBM into a very formidable competitor.
Irving Gould is no kid any more. I don't know if he has heirs or if
they are interested in owning a controlling interest in CBM. He
might feel he's best off leaving cash behind instead of a
company/family quarrel. Interesting points to ponder. We'll all have
to wait and see.
If Nintendo does buy CBM, then you can start fighting the game
machine image all over again. We've almost got it conquered, and then
we'd be thrown backwards. Bad move, IMHO.
I hope no one buys CBM, and they wake up and start doing some decent
marketing. (Boy, there must be something in my drink! :-))
A rumor some time ago that I wish were true was that HP was going to
buy CBM. I have great respect for HP and with leadership they could
provide, Ami might really begin to fly. To bad it is not going to
happen.
It's living at those high altitudes, Darin — like breathing ether!
(chuckle)
darin – as far as game machine image goes, that wouldn't be much of a
change. they can't shake it now so nintendo wouldn't hurt any on that
point. i ain't holding my breath for CBM to change how it promotes
products in the USA.
If Nutendoe does buy CBM, I wonder if they will lock out 3rd party
developers like they have with their wiz bang brain sucking game
machine. I rather have CBM and their poor marketing and open
architecture than A zillion A500's at the local Toys R Us. Nitendo
is not known for their fair trade policies with retailers or
suppliers of software.
True — remember Galoob's Game Genie? All this product did was allow the
user to change the settings on a Nintendo game, effectively providing a
whole new "run" for the money. Nintendo sued Galoob.
(Galoob eventually won, BTW.)
Regards, Whap!penned…
Pat @Oxxi (310) 427-1227
I thought I was dreaming when I saw the tail end of that report. I'm
sure glad someone caught it. Thanks for letting us know the scoop!
thanks for the kind words, roger. I've done nothing but Amiga (book
and articles, product development, and now authorized dealer, too)
for over 6 years. I'm pretty interested in what's going on with
Amiga and CBM so I keep my finger pretty close to the pulse.
Remember, by the time you see so-called 'rumors' in the magazines
they are at least 3 months old. Also note that CBM seldom says
anything publicly so 'rumors' columns are often way way out in left
field – entertaining, but seldom accurate until after the fact. The
combination of facts and rumor which came up yesterday were more
interesting than all the 'rumors' column comments on CBM that I've
read in Amiga mags in years. Couldn't resist posting. We'll all
watch with interest. Stock closed lower today, but the whole market
and technology issues (CBM does have correlation with the technology
sector as a whole) were all down substantially.