3ds for artists only?
31 messages in this thread
Just wondering who is using 3dstudio, and for what kinds of projects? Does
a user have to be an artist to get the most out of this program? Thanks
for any feedback…BCG
We do environmental simulations/communications and have been using 3DS
since it came out. We use it for animation and hi-res still rendering.
CADP tends to be a bit technical in its approach- we want to avoid too much
of a perception as "artists".
Our guys are definitely computer-oriented, and I do occasionally wish we
had a more free-form artist type to take advantage of all 3DS has to offer.
It is a very deep program (particularly R2), though, so despite where one
fits on the artistic spectrum, you will have to have some technical skills
to take it to the limit, I would think.
–Noah
Thanks for the feedback Noah. Can you tell me if you're using a Frame
Capture board? I'm not familiar with 3ds and I'm wondering to what extent
you can manipulate images that were brought into 3ds, say with a video
camera. Thanks again for the info….BCG
Bryan-
I haven't check in for messages in awhile and see you got much good
feedback from Kevin and Martin. I don't dispair that much of what you want
to do you could do excellently with 3DS, its just that you would have to be
very deliberate in your methods. And "painting" seems more attuned to
your needs.
We have a TARGA+ 64 and an older TARGA 16 frame buffer, and we use TIPS and
RIO (argggggh!) with them extenisively. But much of the image-editing we
do now with Photostyler and a Diamond SpeedStar in the windows environment.
Thats limiting you to the 15k color range, which you wouldn't be with the
TARGA+, but it is very practical. There are several other image-editing
programs for windows. TIPS is much livelier- I find working in Windows
very frustrating for brush-work and other stuff where you need immediate
response.
The images we use are almost exclusively scanned from a flat-bed scanner.
We'll capture from video in a pinch, since we don't have a scanner in
house. It's OK as long as it doesn't need to be too sharp.
–Noah
Noah,
Are you running Photostyler on the Targa+ @ 24-bit, or the higher
res @ only 16-bit? New Windows drivers are available as part of the latest
Targa+ setup software disks (3/10/92). Cost for the update is $35 from
your Truevision dealer or Truevision direct @ 800/933-8865 (VISA,
MasterCard, Discover).
Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
Kevin, what is the highest resolution a Targa+ can do 24 bits on? Also,
what is the minimum memory configuration to get it? And you say there are
Windows drivers? for 3.1?
Doug,
A Targa+ maxs out at 512×486 when at 24-bit color depth. You need a
Tarag+ 16/32 or Targa+ 64. All other resolutions are @ 16-bit color. I
doubt the new Windows driver is particularly built for Windows 3.1, but
probably has workarounds for Aldus' Pagemaker 4.0 problems.
Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
Why would one want a T64? Isn't 2 pages of 32bit color a little overkill?
Especially when two page animation is out of the question? Is it for field
rendering or something?
Doug,
A few things the Targa+ 64 lets you do: SNAP transitions of 32-bit
images; preview buffers; capture into the back buffer, while a different
image is on the display; frame pushes; luminance keying (with VideoMaker+,
for instance); 1024x768x16-bit resolution (interlaced, but non-recordable
to video); 32-bit real-time transitions with Inscriber; image-to-image
fades.
Well, that's 8 reasons, and there are probably more. We sell a lot fo
Targa+ 16/32s, but guess which one *I* have?
Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
And if someone would write a specific AAPRO driver for the TARGA 64+, the
double buffer could be used to eliminate page tear while recording
real-time to video tape. The time locked .FLC player in 3DS2 could allow
real-time recording of flics with pretty good results…….excellent for
previewing the animation for uncertain clients, before recording
single-frame/full color.
Hopefully more programs will take advantage of the T64.
-Jeff
Jeff,
Don't forget that Truevision does have an RCPADI driver for 3D
Studio. Give them a short time to test everything with 3DS R2 and you
might find them allowing .FLCs to playback from 3DS at the proper speed.
For non-broadcast use, expect similar results from the 1024-32.
Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
Thanks Kev. And what is the current price for a 64? (You can E-Mail me on
this if you want to keep low-key)
Kevin-
Actually, we never use the TARGA+ with PhotoStyler. We have 3 machines
with Diamond SpeedStar's w/ 32K color, and its easier to just use those.
Thanks for the word about the driver, though. Presumably it is for Windows
3.1?
–Noah
Wow, $35.00 for updated windows drivers? Can they be downloaded from the
truevision BBS?
-MM
Mike,
The $35 is for the entire accessories kit – manuals, new Targa+
drivers, for Windows & all the others.
Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
It will cost you more to download it from Truevisions BBS unless you live
in the same area code. Regards
Steve
I've read a little about Tempra Pro, and wonder if anyone's used it. Are
you familiar with it? If anyone else reads this are you familiar with it?
BCG
Bryan… Tempra pro reminds me of scaled down (or up version) of GSL's
Sable software. It's pretty handy for doing 8-bit image manipulation. There
is also a Hercules Graphics Station version and (if I recall correctly)
does full 24-bit at 512×482 on standard VGA monitors. It's AOK. (I've used
both versions, but it * has * been a while). – Greg
Bryan,
Tempra Pro is from Mathematica. AT&T GSL's Sable product (for
ATVista and Targa) was developed by Mathematica, and was the same as that
(previously) current version of Tempra (which was also offered for Vision
16 and other videographic cards). The latest version of Tempra Pro now
supports the Targa, and has scanner and printer support. The interface is
also now different than Sable (which is similar to the Truevision TIPS
package).
Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
Bryan,
3ds is being using for every type of simulation you can imagine plus
some you probably can't. I use it for corporate video product
visualization, character animation for commercials, architectural
visualization, logos, and anything anybody asks me to do. It is capable of
producing broadcast-quality animation and also very high resolution stills
for film, pre-press etc.
I am not an artist and I don't think the way you build objects is
similar to art techniques in the traditional sense. However, you should
have some visualization skills whereby you can adjust lights,cameras etc.
to get the "right look". If you are just doing mechanical or architectural
stuff and importing .dxf files from autocad you can easily do an acceptable
animation with no artistic skills at all. It just depends what kind of
stuff you want to do. The best images I've seen with 3ds were abstract
images done by people with formal art training, but this type of work while
beautiful my not have much commercial value and they are probably making a
living doing much more down-to-earth stuff.
Thanks for the reply Martin. I'm considering using 3ds as a preview to
before and after looks of all kinds. But I'm trying to decide if 3ds is
the way to go. I would like to be able to take frame captured images of
houses, cars, and anything else whose image can be altered, and change
those images to reflect whatever alterations the owner would like to
envision. To what extent can 3ds do this? Is it necessary to draw images
in Autocad first? or can I bring in the image via a VCR camera/camcorder.
Any info you could pass along would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
again….BCG
You can capture images with from any video source with various frame
grabbers, like the targa+ series (my choice), and then you can use the
resultant image file (.tga .tif .gif etc) as a texture map or background or
whatever, but to do serious "what-if" manipulations you will probably need
to convert your raster image (pixel based image) to vectors (geometry). 3ds
excels in manipulating geometry but I don't think it was meant as an tool
to manipulate raster images. You need to ask yourself how much do you need
to change the object. If you just want to change the colour of a car's
body, or apply different types of finish to a house's walls, roof, trim,
then you might be able to use an image processing/paint package. Anything
more than this and 3ds will probably fit the bill.
specifically Martin, I'm thinking of projects like adding a the picture of
an existing Deck onto someone's house without the need to Draft it. Simply
take video stills of the house and the Deck and put them together. I'm
also thinking of being able to add blinds, curtains, shelving, etc. into a
room and allow someone to be able to pan the room as though they were in it
to see the new decor. And how about "trying on" different kinds of siding
onto video images of someone's house? Or putting an article of clothing
onto someones' video image? The important thing I'm looking for in all
this Martin, is Broadcast quality. Everything must look real and the
textures must jump out at you. What do you think? Is 3ds my ticket?
Thanks for all your help….BCG
Bryan,
No way. Adding decks or landscaping, etc., can be accomplished
either through most raster-based paint packages, such as TIPS (Targa-based)
or even many Windows paint programs (PhotoStyler, Image-In, etc.). Most
useful program I've seen for this use is from New Image (of Woodland Hills,
California) – geared to Landscape design, interior decorating, etc.
Everything is 2-D, though, and certainly requires skill and an artist's
eye.
3D Studio would be more appropriate where you need to change camera angles,
walk-through a room, etc. In this instance, you need 3D geometry (created
in AutoCAD or directly in 3D Studio). You can then apply textures to
objects, change colors, fabrics, etc. This can be even more complex,
because you have to build the room and furnishings within the computer,
rather than just scanning flat artwork or photographs.
Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
It figures. Just when I thought I had a good idea Reality says different.
Thanks for the slap in the face. I needed that….BCG
I agree with Kevin Krell. For what you just described the paint package
will probably do it.
Thanks again Martin for all your help….BCG
Don't despair totally a 3D program can help with perspectives when you need
an accurate texture, especially at high resolution. Its a matter of
building a partial model and then rendering it over your background image.
Setting up the camera is fiddly but sometimes you will achieve things that
a paint package would leave looking fudged rather than accurate.
One point that can really throw you though is that architectural
photographs are very often taken with a rising back camera. This is almost
impossible to match with the computer camera.
(hows that for one on the wishlist Gary ( the only system I have seen this
on is Intergraph, and I don't know how well it works there)).
– Grahame
Interesting comment about using an architectural camera. I've played with
one of those and they are extremely cool. Totally adjustable perspective.
It's theoretically possible to simulate perspective distortions with an
.IXP application running inside of Video Post. We're going to make one
that simulates a fisheye lens this summer.
– G
And what is a rising back camera? Is this better than a camera and pc?
Thanks for the feedback Grahame…BCG