Imagine 2.0 Blues
16 messages in this thread
Pete, Mind if I stray from the subject a bit to ask a couple of techie
questions about the project you described? Your applications sound
somewhat similar to mine and I'm wondering if you're always outputting to
Firecracker and, if so, how you get from there to NTSC or R-Y / B-Y (or
whatever). I've been going from Amiga RGB to component and am looking for
something better.
Bill, there are several ways to go FireCracker24 to video. I use the
DigiFex video encoder, which allows me to record in either regular video,
or S-VHS. Cost @ $100 or so. Results are good. Caveat: I've seen
messages that some DigiFex encoders will cause a color shift on the
FireCracker signal…. so you may want to try a specific unit on your
machine before you buy.
Any external genlock should also work. At least I've heard of others doing
it just fine.
Hmmmm….. Ben at Black Belt has been promoting another 24bit board
lately…. I wonder if it would take the FireCracker 24bit board as a video
source for genlocking?
–jp–seattle–
Have genlock, but obviously don't know anything about Firecracker, such as
that it'll work with an external genlock. Thanks for the info.
Bill,
It's not exactly standard. Fasten your seatbelt.
My Amiga has a SuperGen 2000S, and when I got it I retired my old Supergen
external unit to a closet. When I got the Firecracker I found that the
overlay section won't work with an internal genlock, though the board will
otherwise function. What to do. Then I found that the Firecracker runs
completely independently of the Amiga as far as timing is concerned; it's
possible to genlock the Amiga to one thing, and the Firecracker to
something else. So — the Amiga is genlocked to our house sync via the
SuperGen 2000S. The Firecracker is hooked up to the old SuperGen which is
also genlocked to house sync. Only problem there is that you can't adjust
the timing on the old external SuperGen, so I run house sync out to another
sync generator that has timing controls, and run the blackburst out of that
second sync generator to the SuperGen. That way I can time the Firecracker
in to the system. So far, that means the Amiga can appear to my switcher as
two separate sources — the Firecracker and the Amiga graphics. So I can
make a background on the Firecracker, say, and put graphics over it from
something like Broadcast Titler II. But that's all composite. The RGB loop
output from the SuperGen runs to a Panasonic UTP-2 transcoder, so if I'm
running straight to tape — like for single-framing animations — I can
transcode to YRB.
Whew! That's how it works.
Pete
Bet that took only 2 or 3 minutes to work out.<g> Sounds pretty clever,
and flexible. I use a post production house; no video equipment (or
engineering expertise) here. I do have an Omni-Gen external genlock and a
few S-VHS VCRs for client approvals and off-line editing — mostly live
action that originates on film or B'Cam with an occasional graphic here and
there. Once graphics are approved, I bring in a BVW-70 for a day and dump
them.
I take it the Firecracker has RGB output which the Omni-Gen could encode/
transcode/whatever to component video just like it does normal Amiga RGB,
so my only problem then would be dealing with single frame because with the
Firecracker the system's moving too much data to record animation in real
time, right?
Unfortunately you cannot animate the FireCracker24's display in real time.
It is a single frame display device, and takes a second or two to load an
image into it.
But at either 384×482 or 512×482 resolution it does offer two independent
buffers. You can display one while loading your next image into the other
buffer, and do page flipping for backgrounds that way.
Don't forget that it does allow the amiga screen to overlay the 24bit
buffer either. I know I mention this often, but regular amiga anims (ie.
HAM, 32color, etc) look pretty darn sharp when they are displayed over the
top of a full color background. Combine that with the ability to preload
the next 24bit background and page flip, and you have a pretty
sophisticated system. Easier to design the anim too, since it allows
(forces) you to seperate the background from the foreground imagery. I'll
shut up now 🙂
–jp–seattle–
Pete mentioned timing on FC24 was separate from Amiga overlay. Am I
correct in assuming you can do what you describe (overlaying Amiga anim on
FC24 background) thru a single external encoder and they will stay in
synch?
Yeah, you're correct. The encoder is attached to the output of the
FireCracker24. That output includes the 24bit buffer and the amiga
overlay. It's *no* different than just running the encoder off the regular
amiga RGB signal.
OTOH, there have been a few reports that the DigiFex encoder can cause a
color shift in the output. It looks fine when viewed as RGB on the
monitor, but not-so-good after the encoder gets through with it. My
encoder doesn't seem to have this problem, but you should be aware of it
anyway. Karl S. had this problem, and sent his encoder to Impulse to have
it modified to work better with the FR24. I don't know how it turned out.
Maybe he can say, if he is reading. Karl?
Finally, just remember that with a $100 video encoder you get what you pay
for. This is not the hottest video signal in the world 🙁 I've *heard*
that if you run it through a really good genlock, and view on a good NTSC
monitor, that it looks much better. But it looks good enough for my
purposes.
–jp–seattle–
John:
I also sent my Digifex encoder to Impulse, and it does now work better than
it did before, but still has a horrible color shift, there's almost no blue
in the picture at all (on the RGB, Composite, and S-Video outputs) I've
since decided that the Digifex isn't for me, and so I ordered a 23pin
switchbox from Redmond, and I'll use my A520 to encode the FC (the A520
seems to do a MUCH better job than the digifex, although it has no S-Video
output).
-Mike Schiller
In sunny Fort Lauderdale
Whoops, I got the wrong name Mike (not 'Karl'). Sorry! 🙂
–jp–seattle–
I'm using an Omni-Gen, which is a pretty good unit. The problem with
low-end encoders is not so much how they look on a monitor, but how the
signal holds up on tape, particularly as you go down multiple generations.
Monitors, except for the 6-thousand dollar ones, are more tolerant of
marginal signals. All this of course is relative: nobody'd ever mistake
NTSC for RGB, even if the encoding were perfect. Thanks for the advice;
it's really helpful.
Hi!
I appreciated the advice also!
Take Care!
BARRY – via Whap!
"Pro's from the Desert" Sierra Vista, AZ
John,
I just read your message about me sending an encoder to Impulse.
T'ain't true. Don't own one. Ya must have me confused with someone,
maybe Mr. Shiller?
I'm poor, ya know.
Karl
– via Whap!
Whoops, sorry. I get all you Imaginoids confused 🙂
–jp–seattle–
John:
Now you're really getting confused, I don't use Imagine at all (don't even
own a 3d program at all).
🙂
-Mike Schiller
In sunny Fort Lauderdale
Hey, we're in the Imagine section; that's all I meant. See you Joe. 🙂
–jp–seattle–