Single Frame Anims
17 messages in this thread
I am single frame recording an animation with a movie camera directly off
the screen. What would give better results, Video Toaster output on NTSC
screen or FireCracker 24 on a multiSync?
Any ideas?
–Paul
–pt–not seattle– 😉
Paul,
Well I'm a little partial to the firecracker myself, it's what I do
most of my work on, and since it's RGB you have more latitude with your
color range. Resolution-wise I've compared images I've done side by side
on the Firecracker and the Toaster, and frankly was pretty impressed with
how good an image the Toaster puts out, considering it's NTSC composit.
Not having shot any film off the monitors myself I'm not sure how they
would compare due to scan rate and such, but suspect that color saturation
would be the crucial point, in which case the firecracker *should* be the
way to go. I've been looking into the film angle myself as a low cost
single frame solution, so I'm curious as to how your shoot goes. Did you
catch the article in AVID on shooting with a 16mm camera? Also contained
schematics on an AREX controlled relay for automatically advanceing the
frame.
good luck,
David
David,
Thanks for the comparison, I can't see a FireCracker before I buy. The
Avid article is what got me going but I can't get any information on the
device that is controlled by the Arexx script. It is some kind of motorized
frame advancer that nobody knows anything about.
I have left help messages in Photo Forum, Broadcast Professionals Forum,
Consumer Electronics Forum and an IBM one. I even tried a mega search thru
Iquest on every book in print and magazine article published. Nobody knows.
Is there another forum I can go to that might know? I can't even find a
magazine that caters to movie film users. I just bought a Bolex 16mm with a
huge animation lense that does single frame clicks with a button push. I am
wondering if I can just make a solenoid or actuator that toaster can fire
when ready. I can't get any docs for the camera either. I feel really lost.
I am going to stop by Industrial Light and Magic today.
Thanks for help,
–Paul
Whappin' from the Wine Country
Paul,
hmmm, not having specs makes things a little more complex. Is the
frame advance motorized or spring loaded? The idea of a solinoid doesn't
sound too technicaly difficult, a little kludgey maybe, but feasable. If
it's a motorized advance it should be possable to trigger it with a signal,
which I guess is what the article was refering to, a little careful wire
tracing might clue you in what kind of signal the actuator was looking for,
but not having played with a Bolex I'm not sure how involved it would be to
figure out. If I run across any information I'll let you know, meanwhile,
best of luck and keep us posted.
David
The Firecracker will display a better picture with more colors. The true
resolution is better. If your camera can record it then it will look
better. Did I say "better" enough times? The bandwidth of NTSC doesn't
truly allow more than a fraction of the colors displayed by an analog RGB
device like the FC24. This is especially true with composite output instead
of Y-C.
….Mark Sterling 74335,1677
Mark,
Thanks for the info. The movie film will be real happy with FireCracker.
After film I will copy to Super VHS so it still should be better than
Toaster to start, right?
–Paul
Whappin' from the Wine Country
It certainly has the potential to be better than composite NTSC. Execution
is everything. Did you say you were using 16mm? I wonder if such a system
is easy enough to set up. Is a suitable camera reasonably available. 16mm
film & processing ain't all that cheap. Should be less than the $7000
ticket for the right VTR to do single frame recording (a major stumbling
block for me). It doesn't erase as easy as video tape if I record a dud.
P^)
….Mark Sterling 74335,1677
Has anyone ever tried using one of those Zenith Flat Screen monitors to
eliminate the curvature distortion? (would the Zenith work with an FC?)
– via Whap!
Steve,
It would be cheaper, but not as much fun, to use a zoom lense which will
eliminate all traces of curvature distortion.
–Paul
Whappin' from the Wine Country
I think the Zenith only runs at 31.5kHz while the FC24 is a 15.75kHz
device. There is no apparent curvature visable if you use a decently long
lens like an 80mm or so.
….Mark Sterling 74335,1677
I think your right, the Zenith is a VGA-only monitor. My first thought was
reading that C= 1950 could be hooked up to FC, but later I read that it
will interlace in that configuration. I was thinking of being able to do
this in one's office/room and still be able to leave the lights on and walk
around by using a flat-screen monitor, short lens, and a make-shift
cardboard hood.
Hmmm… how about one of those 5 inch broadcast monitors?
– via Whap!
You might get closer with a smaller monitor. The picture might not be as
sharp when shown full size. I don't know if the average small broadcast
monitor has analog RGB inputs. The sync rate should be right.
….Mark Sterling 74335,1677
Mark,
I bought a complete Bolex 16mm outfit for $150, including a projector and
editor. The film is only about .02 cents a frame, compare that to $11,000
for a VTR and frame controller. I wouldn't mind messing up a whole bunch of
film for practice. Besides, that what FRED is for, looking at single frame
animations before commiting to tape.
I'll keep in touch,
–Paul
Whappin' from the Wine Country
Sounds like you got a good deal on that Bolex camera. I know where an old
16mm camera is available. Maybe I will scare it up and see if it works. I
remember it had a button for shooting single frames. I assume you bought
yours used.
I doen't quite cost $11000 to get an SVHS deck and controller but it is
expensive.
I wonder what the focal length is on your camera and the one I will be
hunting up.
….Mark Sterling 74335,1677
Mark, the Bolex comes with 3 lenses mounted on a turret 7, 10 and 25 mm. It
also came with a huge zoom/macro lens that goes from 17-85 mm. This lens
has a big cricket legged tube that you use to look thru the lens as the
film sees it.
I bought some film but can't figure out how to load it. Geez, I can't even
load it with the lights on 🙂
–Paul
Whappin' from the Wine Country
You in a heap of trouble, boy! I have no experience with a camera like
that. Might be a slow start to your project eh? It must be an impressive
machine with all those lenses hanging out. Maybe it will make some good
pictures.
….Mark Sterling 74335,1677