#Genlock frustration
14 messages in this thread
I've used a SuperGen genlock for several years and now I have a Toaster. Apart
from all the neat things you can do with a Toaster, I was keen on getting a
better looking genlocked signal. But I find I am still frustrated with the
amount of flickering that goes on.
I know there are inherent limitations of NTSC; I know about legal colors and
keeping the levels below 12 etc.; I put an outline of black around type to
minimize color bleeding. I use gold tipped cables with an S-VHS systems and buy
the best quality tapes. But still my text shimmers and flickers.
Am I being too fussy or is this as good as it gets? I notice chequerboarding
and color bleed on titles on TV, but the images are usually motionless. What do
I need to do to get my genlocked images to stop leaping about?
Barbara.
Barbara,
First of all *use* the SuperGen, not the Toaster's genlock. It really is a
very bad genlock.
Second, check on any one-line height pixels on the graphics and make them
at least two-pixel of height.
Third, try out AdPro's "Broadcats_Limit" operator or other software's
similar operators to see if the image gets any better.
You can get gorgeous images from the Amiga with a good genlock and these
guidelines (and the others you noted about colors).
Jorge Escobar/MEGABYTE PRODUCTIONS (..and AutoPilot, of course!)
Thanks for your continuing input into my technical quests. I'll try out your
suggestions.
Barbara
Try running yer output THRU a TBC before going to the Tape Recorder. This
may help.
Thanks for the tip … I'll try it. Hey, I'll try anything!
Barbara
Glad to help tho I can't rememebr what I told you. hehehehe
Barbara,
I think most people would agree that the Toaster Genlock is the weakest
part of the TOaster system tne the CG ouput the second weakest part. From
what I've seen, just using "eyeball tests", at his point I think the
Toaster would have a hard time competing with the Supergen 2000s BroadCast
Titler combination for genlocking/titling.
Someone from NewTek or familiar with the Toaster's internal technology
explained why that is to me once but I forget what it was. I'm keeping my
fingers crossed hopint the next Toaster rev is much cleaner in the key, CG
and Genlock departments.
wmc – via Autopilot!
Wayne,
Pardon me for jumping in on the thread. I wholeheartedly agree with your
message. The first thing I bought for my Toaster was an A2000 with another
genlock so that I could contunue to run Broadcast Titler II downstream. The
good news is that Montage (from Innovision, will be shown at NAB and shipping
just after) will answer many of the CG issues for Toaster users. It won't have
most of the effects that I use in BT2, so I will continue to run it down the
line. BTW, the technical explanation for the Toaster's genlock performance with
other software is as follows: "Once something enters Toaster it becomes D-2
composite, Toaster is optimized to D-2 composite processing. Regular Amiga
graphics are processed as ANALOG rgb signals before encoding to the genlock.
The bottom line is..digital and analog graphics have different technical
requirements for reproduction at the encoder stage of the Toaster." This is the
explanation as given to me by Newtek 2 years ago, it sounds about right so I
guess I buy it.
Regards
Frank
Frank,
I've been curious about Montage. Have you seen/used it? What BT2 effects
will be missing?
Now the question remains, if Montage could clean up the Toaster CG ouptut,
why cant the Toaster CG do it? The NewTek explanation sound O.K., I
guess, but is sorta hints of, "we need to be a little smarter in the way
we endcode the analog RGB to D2". Or am I all wet?
wmc – via Autopilot!
Wayne,
I got a peek at Montage at a user group meeting and the screens were stunning.
I hope you didn't misunderstand my earlier post, but Montage isn't going to
offer any of the BT2 effects other than scroll. Essentially you must think of
it as an image compositing package that has fantastic text capabilities. The
framestore images it outputs can be manipulated with any Toaster effects and
"pre-sequenced" by Montage, but forget about line and page effects ala BT2.
Regarding the D-2 issue and analog RGB; The way it was explained to me is that
all the graphics in Toaster's CG are created in D-2 native composite, not
analog rgb. The crappy output from the Toaster's genlock on analog RGB images
has something to do with "rise times" and bandwidth issues that are more
complicated than just a couple of lines of code. All in all, I think Newtek has
done a fair job of providing the product they promised, which wasn't really
designed to give any consideration to the "other" graphics uses of the Amiga
platform. It's interesting however that InnoVision has figured a way to greatly
enhance Toaster's output through their software based NTSC filter. This should
send a wake up call to Newtek engineering about output quality and the supposed
"hardware barrier" they keep referring to.
Frank
Just wondering what is "BT2"?? I have seen it all over on the Amiga
Programming Net (FIDO) and have yet to fiqure it out! BTW Would like to
introduce myself, I am new to Compuserve, and own a Amiga 500 video
workstation, which I fiddle with on occasion. I also run a AMIGA BBS here
in Charleston SC = Broadcast BBS (803) 760-9630, and I am really
interested in learning on how to get more out of both my video work
centers (also have a DX2/66 which btw is what I run the BBS on why waste
multitasking when there's an IBM there?) …. I haven't really done
anything extensive or anything, but looking to get into more video work in
the future. Thanks
Jody Winningham
1:372/71@FIDO
Jody,
<Just wondering what is "BT2"??>
BT2 is Broadcast Titler II. A title package for the Amiga from InnoVision
Technology. The software has probably the most often requested text and page
transition effects that my clients expect from a professional prod house. Stuff
like typewriter line reveals, coin flip page transitions, as well as a host of
others. It has been around for quite a while and is available through most of
the major Amiga mail order outlets.
Frank
Hey dey Hidy Ho dere Jody, I've chatted with ye on the Amiga_Video Echo a
bit. Welcome Aboard. BT2 is Broadcast Titler 2 a Character Generator Prg.
I also have a A500 "Workstation" but have since added a A3000 with 14
megs and a CDTV for use as a CDROM
Frank,
I spoke with Innovision and they mentioned working on key page
capabilities, but wer unclear how such pages would be manipulated but
editors such as AmiLink. It will be interesting to see what is "dropped"
at NAB.
As for the Toaster Genlock/CG, I hope that some improvement is not too
far off.
wmc – via Autopilot!