#One Frame at a time
66 messages in this thread
Hey Thanks for the tip on Originating. I guess it's a failing of mine
to not completely read all instructions before operation of a
device. I'm of the type to refer to the instructions after
everything else goes wrong 🙂 I think S-VHS would be the way to go as
there would be no conversion necessary to a VHS format. If I'm clear
on this, each format would have it's different sized tapes – Right or
Wrong? Not really too clear though on which yields the best quality
or what you commonly sacrifice for the price. I'd like something I
could pop out of the SFR and plop into any average consumer VCR.
Single Framing is a totally new field for me, so I'm not real adept
at all the stats and considerations in buying my first one – what to
look for, so I guess it's best to talk with those that are more
experienced than me. For Right now, it's off to the Library for a
VIEW program…. You know..I just hate VCR's without a flying erase
head!!
-Rodney Massman * On AutoPilot in Beantown, The Buckeye State *
Lemme know if View 3.6 is in the LIBS. If not I'll send it up. it is in MY
opinion currently THE Anim Viewer of Choice
View 3.6 can't play anim 7's. That makes it useless for me. Anim7's pound
Anim8 into the ground.
–Paul < Motorola Inside >
ANIM7 is the best, right now. However, View 3.6 does a nice job increasing
the speeds of standard ANIM5's.
ViewTek is still my preferred ANIM and picture viewer.
Vance
Vance have you been able to get Viewtek and it's Anim-7 format to Play
Overscan 736*482 Rez anims CORRECTLY? If so how did ya do it and on what
machine? The Anim-7 go Haywire on my A3000 when I convert my 736*482 rez
DCTV anims to Anim-7 and Attempt to play via Viewtek. If you use ANOTHEr
Overscan setting please lemme know what itr is so I can do a test at that
rez and see what I'm missing in Anim-7 tho so far View 3.6 and DCTV have
not Disappointed me.
It's strange, because I've used 736×482 DCTV ANIM7's with ViewTek, and it
performed flawlessly. My machine is one of the first A3000T's to hit
Canada. I've been pretty lucky with my machines.
The first DCTV animation I made was of a Cylon fighter fly-in from stage
left-lower-back. When it comes onto the camera view, the deltas were huge
and to the eye, the animation didn't appear to slow down at all.
The current ViewTek not only uses jiffy's, but allows the user to set the
default FPS to lock the player at when running an animation.
I chose the Tower because I planned ahead for the Toaster, TBC, massive
storage, etc. The VT will keep me from losing my investment in this
machine.
Did you see the A4000T? It says that the machine has TWO video slots!
Vance
P.S. Almost forgot to mention that my DCTV anims are ALL done in 4
bitplane.
Thanx for the info Vance, Perhaps Viewtek/Anim-7 doesn't like 3 bit plane
DCTV anims? The few that I tried work FINE until the end then go haywire,
then when it loops to the beggining again it's fine ad infinitum.
I didn't really look that much at the 4000T tho one of the blokes I
was there with tells me that the 4000T DID have 2 Video Slots but the
second one was not connected.
I wouldn't think that 3-bitplane dctv anims would be a problem. I remember
having a looping problem like that when I used to have my A2000. I used a
util to compile the anim and played it back on another player. When
problems arose, I found the player didn't have a certain support feature
in its ANIM support. I think it was pre-ANIM5.
I don't think CBM bothered hooking up the second video slot until they got
FCC approval for the A4000T. Another reason might be that the A4000T
wasn't quite finished in conception.
Vance
I'll try a 3 bit plane Anim-7 again. I'll compile to Anim-5 via Adpro then
convert. I'll make SURE It is supposed to LOOP. If that don't work I'll
try a NON LOOPING anim. I'm perplexed here.
>The few that I tried work FINE until the end then go haywire, then when
>it loops to the beggining again it's fine ad infinitum.
I had one anim (anim7)that after it played once it had a little bit of
trash for about 10 frames, someone suggested I press the `c' key and
viola! no more trash.
<<< Tony D. Tracer >>>
Thanx for the "Key of C" tip for Viewtek, I'll try em tho like I said
before I'm amazed at View 3.6 and really DON'T need the anims to run any
faster. I did a anim of Viewpoints 32 Dodge object and it Zooms by so fast
I have to actually slow down playback
>Vance have you been able to get Viewtek and it's Anim-7 format to Play
>Overscan 736*482 Rez anims CORRECTLY?
Well I am not Vance but I have been able to convert Anim5s to Anim7
without any problems. I have a A3000 with 18 megs ram and DCTV. The
Overscan settings are 640*200 on both Text and Graphics.
>so far View 3.6 and DCTV have not Disappointed me.
I got View 3.6 yesterday, thanks for u/l'ing it, but it doesn't play
Anim5s any faster than any other player. It doesn't center the anims nor
does it fill the overscan area either (I changed the Overscan settings and
still had the same results) and the pointer is in the way.
Btw, All my anims are 736*482*3-bit plane DCTV.
<<< Tony D. Tracer >>>
WHAT????? It doesn't fill the Overscan Area????? It does on my 3000
and it plays CONSIDERABLY FASTER than view 3.2. I am starting to feel like
I'm in the Twilight Zone here Tony. "Enter a Man who gets View 3.6 to do
amazing things and yet those around him can't duplicate this feat"
This getting Weirder and Weirder
Perhaps for an AGA machine Anim7's are good but so far I've found Anim-7
USELESS so Anim-5 and Anim-8 Pound Anim-7 into tiny bits simply because
they actually WORK on my system ,something Anim-7 Refuses to do correctly.
If Anim-7 works for you thats GREAT, I still think ya might want to try
View 3.6 tho since as I said my "ANCIENT" A3000 25 mhz does 60 FPS at
736*482 REZ in it's 3 bit plane mode at least 60% of the anims I have done
already and this is with ANIM-5's I've yet to Convert any to Anim-8 tho I
kinda doubt it'll go any faster than 60 FPS
>my "ANCIENT" A3000 25 mhz does 60 FPS at 736*482 REZ in it's 3 bit plane
>mode at least 60% of the anims I have done already and this is with
>ANIM-5's
Is there a trick to get View 3.6 to play that fast? I have tried a few
anims and none playback any faster, even those with little deltas.
>so far I've found Anim-7 USELESS so Anim-5 and Anim-8 Pound Anim-7 into
>tiny bits simply because they actually WORK on my system ,something
>Anim-7 Refuses to do correctly.
I am REALLY confused, we are having the exact opposite results. What are
your overscan settings?
<<< Tony D. Tracer >>>
My Overscan Settings are BOX STOCK. I use No tricks other than the fact
that I always use LARGE amounts of frames. Also I do 90% SPACE Animation
so there's ALOT of Black onscreen along with a ton of Stars and rarely
more than 2 objects in motion at one time. Perhaps yer Anims are simply
more Complex than mine?
I'm going Cuckoo woo woo, here comes the Choo choo woo woo, once I knew a
thing or two now I'm a Buckaroo inky dinky parlez vouz vouz
I'm Perplexed here. My Current 32 Dodge Anim uses a Textured Ground object
along with a Starfield Background Picture with ALOT of Chrome Reflections
and Filtered Glass on the Dodge. It is the only Moving Model and it flies
by at 60 FPS
Maybe I'll Upload one of the smaller Anim-5's that I've gotten View 3.6 to
run at 60 FPS so ya can see what I mean?
>My Overscan Settings are BOX STOCK.
I can't remember if my settings are stock or if I changed the a little.
Could you go and find your Overscan Settings and post them here? I'd like
to know what causes 2 people with the same machine to have totally
opposite results.
>Perhaps yer Anims are simply more Complex than mine?
The first anim I converted to Anim7 is of the ST-TNG object, the WarpBee,
and the camera was VERY close-up so there was lots of deltas and it played
back twice as fast as View could play it back.
I did a test with a anim I did with Scenery Animator, and these are the
results:
Anim was 120 frames at 736*482 3-bit DCTV anim. Avg. Delta 76,900. Anim
size was 9.48 megs (Anim5) and 10.10 megs (Anim7).
Anim5/View3.6 Anim7/ViewTek
FPS 10.1694 30.00
View 3.2 and 3.6 both played back the anim at exactly the same speed. I
played it 5 times and timed it and figured out the FPS. View 3.6 said it
was 14.6 FPS but I figured it at 10.1694 FPS.
>Maybe I'll Upload one of the smaller Anim-5's that I've gotten View 3.6
>to run at 60 FPS so ya can see what I mean?
I don't think the problem is the anim but the anim players.
Are you looking at the FPS gauge that 3.6 puts up or are you calculating
it? Figure it out and see if it really is playing back at the speed it
says it is.
Btw, Have you tried doing any Anim8s since you got AD-PRO? I'd like to
know how it is.
<<< Tony D. Tracer >>>
Tony,
I just DL'ed View3.6, and my results on my 4000 are about what yours
are. Peter's just weird! <grin>
I have a 141-frame Scenery Animator animation that, as an anim5 is
about 6.5M and goes about 11 seconds for both Viewtek1.04a and View3.6. It
has very high deltas, as it plunges into the Grand Canyon, careens around
a bend, and then zooms up towards clouds. It's about 5 seconds as an
anim-7 under Viewtek. Viewtek is full-screen, while View3.6 opens this
dinky little window (uses roughly half the screen area) on my 1960. (I
have VGAOnly prefs set, though I don't know if this affects anything)
While I like View's interface better, the results are ghastly at the
moment. Hopefully, I'll find something I'm doing wrong.
And, yes, the ADPro upgrade is here, but I haven't installed and tested
it yet. But at the moment, I'm very happy with anim-7 and Viewtek. Maybe
anim8 will be even better!
Now I need a bigger HD,
Karl
Karl,
Ooo, Ooo, I've been lurking around this thread waiting for a 4000 user
to show up !
First my results are the same as yours and Tony's. View3.6 and anims5s
(have not yet tryed anim8s) are no big deal speed wise – VT1.04A flys! (Do
do do do <–Twilight Zone Theme, Peter 😉 )
But more importantly although VT is great IF I play non overscan anims.
I can't get it to play overscan anims (anim5 or anim7). The first frame
displays and then my system locks up tight! Have you gotten VT to play
overscan anims? If so exactly what is your screen/overscan prefs
settings?
…AutoPilot Engaged…
-Paul-
Paul,
Sorry you had to wait for a 4000 owner to show up on the thread! Do I
take it you have a 4000 as well?
I historically have restrained myself to doing stills, since I haven't
owned hardware to support the incredible appetite of animation software,
so I may misstep here, but I'll try to help.
I just checked the Scenery Animator "screen" setup, and I have it set
for 352×480. My Prefs are set for SuperHighRes-Interlaced. With the
VGAOnly pref in the drawer, that yields a report of 29.2kHz, 59Hz.
Do you have ViewTek 1.04 *a* ? The "a" release fixed a thing or two
and is worth your while to get, if you don't have it already.
Lemme know how it goes.
Karl
Karl,
Yes I have a 4000 and VT 1.04a. VT will display stills of any size
correctly. On my system it only has trouble with overscan anims. 352 x 480
is lorez overscan and I have not yet tryed that. All mine are hirez
736×482. I'll try a 352 x 480 anim and let you know. If you get a chance
try a 736×482 anim with VT on your system (it can be a quick Dpaint anim)
and see if it works for you.
…AutoPilot Engaged…
-Paul-
>I just DL'ed View3.6, and my results on my 4000 are about what yours are.
>Peter's just weird! <grin>
I am trying to figure it out since me and Peter have the same machine but
VERY different results, strange.
> Now I need a bigger HD,
I know what you mean!!!
>I'm very happy with anim-7 and Viewtek. Maybe anim8 will be even better!
We are having about the same results and hopefully Anim8 will make it even
better.
Are you the Karl Sparklin form the old COCO times?
<<< Tony D. Tracer >>>
Tony,
Peter must have something different with his setup that changes his
machine's operation. I can't Imagine what it is, but must affect
memory/display operations. He'll figure it out.
No, I never owned a CoCo, but in the old days, I built a computer that
used the same processor and graphics chips; maybe I butt'ed in on a CoCo
conference somewhere? Amiga was the first commercial computer that had
enough graphics power to suit me. I always, lamented, however, that OS9
didn't become more popular: very powerful.
Karl
> Peter must have something different with his setup
I think he got it fixed.
> No, I never owned a CoCo, but in the old days,
I just realized who I was thinking about, I think it is Kevin Darling.
I think.
<<< Tony D. Tracer >>>
Accordig to the Docs, A7!m7 is SUPPOSED to be FASTER than Anim8 longword
anims. Haven't tested this theory yet tho.
Yer not doing anything WRONG per se, it's just that I optimize to keep my
Delta's VERY Small in my animations, I think that is why my results are so
much better than most peoples. I've finally gotten Anim7's to work and it
is Considerably faster than anything I've gotten on View 3.6
Good point. The report on your View3.6 anim speeds didn't include info on
the content; I hadn't considered that they would be small delta. Glad to
hear that your experience with Anim7 is consistent with others' results. I
assume you were using Viewtek1.04a?
Karl
Yes I'm using 1.04a and it works and then it doesn't it seems to have a
problem with the Anim size I use of 736*482
>I've finally gotten Anim7's to work and it is Considerably faster than
>anything I've gotten on View 3.6
I told you! :^)
<<< Tony D. Tracer >>>
Sure sure, tho I just tried Another 736*482 DCTV anim and while it runs
right there is some artifacting in their that shouldn't be. This is when
converted to Anim-7 I converted that silly Anim I mentioned about the 2
Chrome Androids Fighting while the Troll stands by smiling and BD Girl
EXPLODES on the screen
Karl,
Where did you get ViewTek from?… Is it here on CIS?
Thanxs,
Jorge Escobar/MEGABYTE PRODUCTIONS (..and AutoPilot, of course!)
Jorge,
I thought I did, though I'm not sure. I think I got 1.04 off a local
Amiga BBS and the "a" version off CIS. I'd use the Amiga File Finder (just
outside these forums) to locate it.
Karl
VT104A.LHA is in library 14 here in AmigaArts.
Viewtek is here in Lib 14 I believe
EGADS MAN, I thoink we've stumbled on it, Most of my Superfast Anims have
INCREDIBLY SMALL Delt'as Averageing under 20k and some as low as 3k.
Methinks this is the Culprit. When I have tried High Delta Anims the
Results were still relatively acceptable at 12-18 FPS. I'll check my
Overscan settings, BTW I finally got an anim7 to work, when I converted
the 32 Dodge Anim to Anim7 it was Quite a Bit faster than the View 3.6
version in anim5 and no Garbage onscreen like my previous tests with
anim7
>I thoink we've stumbled on it, Most of my Superfast Anims have
>INCREDIBLY SMALL Delt'as Averageing under 20k and some as low as 3k.
That could be it since most of the anims I have done lately have 50k+
Deltas.
<<< Tony D. Tracer >>>
Must be. 50K Delta's EGADS, I get itchy when I see anything over 30K
Tho I've still gotten SMOOTH playback with anims upto 100K Delta's….Not
at 30 FPS tho.
Peter & Tony,
What are you using to get your measurement of anim deltas?
…AutoPilot Engaged…
-Paul-
So, the closer the object to the camera – the jerkier/less fluid the
animation runs?
I'd thought it might have something to do with the
camera/object/background moving all at the same time. A ram problem.
-Rodney Massman * On AutoPilot in Beantown, The Buckeye State *
Methinks the reason Tony says the closer the object is to the Camera the
jerkier it runs is simply because the closer the camera is the MORE SPACE
the Model(s) take up onscreen so the Larger the Delta's will probbaly be.
Just saw the New Upload notice, so that must be the answer – Shucks! and
right after I just got done downloading 3.2!! Eh, View didn't work at all
with the IFFs I saved to HD, wouldn't even take a look at 'em! I guess it
has a problem with 24bit IFFs. I need to find out how to run an anim made
from the Toaster and record it onto a VCR. From what I understand, to do
that, I've got to convert down to 16bit IFF's (I think) and then runhe
VIEW program (with some timely finger action on the VCR record button).
Now, here's where it gets hairy — to do that you have to convert it (the
IFF single frame stores) over to a DCTV format using IFFtoDCTV (whatever
that is..) then, the guy suggested buying Directory Opus to do this
automatically instead of typing in manually to convert each frame..uh, the
dollars seemo be being cranked up as our conversation had continued..
CH CHING…
I'll place bets you have to buy DCTV in order to convert images over to
DCTV format.. 😉
From wt I see in AmigaWorld DCTV runs at around $379.00 CH CHING!
-Rodney Massman * On AutoPilot in Beantown, The Buckeye State *
Rodney, IfftoDCTV will convert all the images with the same extention to DCTV
iff's. The command is EXECUTE SPAT IFFTODCTV DH0:RODNEY??? -D3 -ORAM: This
will take all the 24bit iff's that Lightwave produces ie…Rodney001,
Rodney002…etc. and convert them to Rondey001.dctv etc…in RAM or whatever
directory you wish. I've found that the 3 bitplanes (-d3) as opposed to 4
bitplanes -d4 makes a HUGE difference in the playback speeds of the animation
with very little loss in image quality. Then simply use an animation building
program such as Viewtek to assemble the DCTV pics to an anim5 or anim7 and
you're ready to lay down to tape directly from the video out on the DCTV.
Later, Jim
Don't forget ADAM does this and Automates the Process of converting IFF's
to DCTV images,allows ya to convert to 3 or 4 bit planes as well as
compiles the anim for you. It's PD or Shareware I forget which.
And don't forget ADPRO's Sentry, gives you more flexibility if you need to
make any imaging adjustments on each rendered frame.
–Paul < Motorola Inside >
Hmmm, I actually haven't TOUCHED the Sentry yet, I'll have to check that
out and READ my new manual.
Thanx for the info.
So, ADAM does the same as DCTV in converting the images to DCTV images?
Oh, lordy lordy me brains runneth over…
-Rodney Massman * On AutoPilot in Beantown, The Buckeye State *
ADAM is a CANDO Stack that converts yer IFF's to DCTV images and compiles
into an anim
This DCTV is a bit interesting. I've already got LightWave, but DCTV has
it's own video out while the toaster waits for a SFR. So many different
programs and boards out there it gets a little flustering.
From the sounds of it I am getting the impression I just can't live
without DCTV.
-Rodney Massman * On AutoPilot in Beantown, The Buckeye State *
DCTV images are USELESS without DCTV. Do you have an AGA machine? if so
use Ham8 which is supported in View 3.6
24 bit images are NOT supported in View 3.6, Dunno if they ever will
tho it'd be convenient. If you don't have DCTV or an AGA machine yer STUCK
with HAM animations.
BTW DCTV's were $289 at WOC this weekend. Digital Creations has dropped
the price. BTW When and IF you get a DCTV you will NOT need Dopus to do
the IFF2DCTV conversion since DCTV comes with a utility named ADAM to do
just that AND compile it into an anim automatically, it also allows you to
scale the anim down a bit as well as change the # of Bitplanes used.
Peter, regarding your problem with Viewtek and the ANIM-7 format, as I recall
the default for Viewtek is to play animations assuming it is a looping type
where the first two frames are added at the end (DPaint style). You have to
change tool type to fix that problem at the end of the anim. Its in the docs.
Hope this helps
John
Thanx John, I'l reread the manual for Viewtek.
Tho most of my Anims are of the looping type.
Yes, I'm running on an Amiga 2000 – non AGA and I don't have DCTV, so I'm
stuck with HAM animations.
But I thought this was what ADAM did, convert to a DCTV format with which
I can then compile with View 3.6 or Even better, ViewTek. Am I right on
that? And if ADAM is right here online wouldn't it be wise to then
download it?
I was a bit curious why my anims looked so cartoonish on 3.6, now I know
why they don't look like Allan's or Ron's work – ahem…
-Rodney Massman * On AutoPilot in Beantown, The Buckeye State *
YES you can convert to DCTV and Run/view with View 3.6 but as I said
before WITHOUT the DCTV Hardware all you'll see is Mish mosh
Right. I'll lock onto a DCTV then.
Sounds like your all getting some pretty good results from it speedwise.
-Rodney Massman * On AutoPilot in Beantown, The Buckeye State *
Hehehehehehe and Wildly DIFFERENT results.
>But I thought this was what ADAM did, convert to a DCTV format with which
>I can then compile with View 3.6 or Even better, ViewTek. Am I right on
>that?
Not exactly. Adam is a program for use ONLY for DCTV owners. It will
convert ANY iff picture INTO DCTV format and compile it into a anim. You
can then use View, ViewTek or any Anim player.
I don't think you fully understand what DCTV is exactly so I will try to
explain:
DCTV is a external black box that connects to the RGB out and passes the
RGB thru for the monitor and has a Video out for compsite (also has a
Video in for digitizing).
With a DCTV connected you will notice NO difference in th RGB display
unless you display a DCTV image/anim (with any viewer) and DCTV will then
instantly convert it and pass it thru the Video out line as a beautilfull
Million color image and/or Anim. On the monitor it will look like a grey
glob of garbage.
It also comes with a great Paint program and you can slow scan digitize
(about 10 sec) from a video input.
Neither View or ViewTek compile IFFs into Anims, these are simply anim
players. Although ViewTek 1.04 comes with a util to convert anim5 into
anim7, but this is seperate. With a A2000 you won't benefit from Anim7 so
don't worry about it.
<<< Tony D. Tracer >>>
Thanks for the facts on DCTV.
On the ViewTek compile I meant convert to Anim7, and I wasn't aware that
Anim7 did me little good. I thought it was faster.
-Rodney Massman * On AutoPilot in Beantown, The Buckeye State *
>and I wasn't aware that Anim7 did me little good. I thought it was
>faster.
It is but only for machines with 32-bit CHIP ram (as far as I have been
able to see) like the A1200,3000,4000.
None of the A500,1000,2×00, will benefit from Anim7.
(Again this is only as far as I can tell)
<<< Tony D. Tracer >>>
Anthony,
My accelerated A2000 benefits mightily from Anim7…much faster playback.
Jonathan, via AutoPilot // Entombed in ice
\\// and snow in Albany, NY
ANIM8 can be of benefit only on machines with 32 bit chip ram – which yours
does not have.
ASDG:
I understand that ANIM8 is for machines with 32-bit chip ram. I was
saying that, even though I have 16-bit chip ram, ANIM*7* has proven to be
a very fast animation format.
Jonathan, via AutoPilot // Entombed in ice
\\// and snow in Albany, NY
>My accelerated A2000 benefits mightily from Anim7…much faster
>playback.
What speed is it playing back at (FPS)? What did it playback at in Anim5?
What size are the Deltas?
Reason I ask is because I tried it on a friends A2500 (33 mhz) and it
hardly made any difference, if any. While on my A3000 it played back at
least twice as fast, one played back 3 times as fast (from 10 to 30 FPS).
Please let me know if there is anything special about your machine that
would make it playback so fast since I would love to have this speed on
the A2500 of my friend.
<<< Tony D. Tracer >>>
Anthony,
I have not measured anything, except for eyeballing it. I have not gotten
anything like a 3x speedup, although I would guesstimate that I have
gotten nearly double at times.
If you'd like, send me an animation to play with…my machine is an A2000,
8 megs 32-bit ram, GVP 28mhz '030 w/ 50mhz '882…nothing terribly
strange.
//Jonathan,
\\//via AutoPilot
>None of the A500,1000,2×00, will benefit from Anim7.
..unless you have an accelerator board!
>>None of the A500,1000,2×00, will benefit from Anim7.
>
>..unless you have an accelerator board!
I have a A3000 and notice a BIG improvement in playback speed but on a
friend's A2500 I didn't notice much of a improvement, if any. Therefore I
have come to the conclusion that 32-bit CHIP ram (A1200,3000,4000) is
required to gain any REAL improvement from Anim7.
<<< Tony D. Tracer >>>