#A4000 Anti-Flick Boards
17 messages in this thread
Will any of the commonly available "Flicker-Fixer" boards operate in
conjunction with an A4000?
Regards Tom (via Whap!)
Tom,
The C= display enhancer (2320 ?) will work in the 4000 (I have one in
mine), but it does not support all the AGA resolutions and doesn't pass
through all the full AGA color (BTW most 256 color pics seem to come
through pretty good). My current setup is as follows. I run a 640 x 400
NSTC interlace workbench with NO mode promotion. I run the output of the
2320 to my 1950. The 2320 does all the scan doubling and I get a rock
solid no flicker, no multisync switching display – just like the 3000. And
just like the 3000 everthing including self booting games are scan
doubled. Now I DON'T get full AGA color through this port but for 80% of
what I do (AutoPilot, Final Copy II, PageStream, etc that's fine. For the
20% of the time when I want to view full AGA color I have a 1084s
connected to the 4000's regular RGB port, so a glance to the left does it.
I also use the 1084s for DCTV work and watching TV. 🙂 Now if I do want to
use one of the higher rez AGA screen modes then I need to do some cable
swapping.
Now the REAL good news. C= will be releasing a special display enhancer
designed for the 4000. It WILL support all AGA modes, include a 24bit
frame buffer, and a host of other tricks! Denny knows alot about this
puppy, but he ain't tell'n! 😉 I've heard a release date of "3rd quarter
93" spoken. But then again we were supposed to have SCSI II by the "end of
the year" (that's 92!), so who knows?
…AutoPilot Engaged…
-Paul-
Paul:
Thanks for the news. If a 2320 pops up at a _real_ good price, I'll spring
for it and end the matter. Otherwise, I can wait awhile. (Like yourself, I've
been waiting for the SCSI II controller. AW notes there is a German outfit
that has one out there now, but says very little else about it. See May 1993,
page 12, bottom.)
As it happens, the two programs I mess with 90% of my time are AMOS Pro and
Caligari 24. Naturally, I must tolerate scan lines in both. 8-( Having been
weaned on an A2000 and a MicroWay Flicker Fixer, there is NO WAY I am willing
to tolerate scan lines again.
Thanks and regards.
Regards Tom (via Whap!)
I'm confused… I thought that the 4000 didn't need a "flicker fixer." What are
the 4000's flicker problems? I do remember reading something about the 4000
doing in software what the 3000 did with hardware, but I don't really
understand what the limitations of the 4000's video are (vs. the 3000's) in
regards to interlace/flicker. ===Scott
Scott:
The A4000 does in fact do delacing in software, so technically you don't
NEED a hardware delacer. However, the software delacer does use bandwidth
and so it can slow the machine somewhat, and a hardware delacer circuit
would speed up the machine by freeing up some of the bandwidth now used ny
the software delacer.
// -Mike Schiller
\X/ AMIGA! On AutoPilot in sunny Fort Lauderdale
Mike and Scott –
AGA also requires the operating system to be able to trap and promote
screen requests to do interlacing, which doesn't happen all the time, even
with things like DoubleX.
Also, does anyone know if there are (or will be) any hardware delacers for
the A1200? That don't take up the expansion slot? I'm thinking about
getting one of those Viper 1230 boards when they come out…
Paul
OK Scott I'll try to explain;
The 3000 knows nothing about reducing flicker. It produces the same
video output as a 2000 or 500. It DOES, at the flick of a switch, have
hardware (same as used in the 2320) that "flicker fixes" the signal on the
way out the door so to speak. That means that all 3000 output can be
passed through this hardware. To the end user the result is a consistent
environment. Interlace screens are "fixed", but so are non interlace
screens (scan lines removed), and even games that take over the system are
"fixed" since it is done with hardware as a last step before the signal
goes out to your monitor. Also since all screens come out as a constant
scan rate a simple VGA monitor can be used quite effectively with the
3000.
The 1200 & 4000's new AGA chips DO know about scan doubling. If the
software asks WB 3.0 for a flicker free display you get it. If it doesn't
– you don't! The system produces the type of output you get AT THE TIME IT
IS CREATED. That means that screens can come up either "fixed" or not and
at a variety of different scan rates (Which is why you may have heard
others talking about NEEDING a multisync monitor for the 1200 & 4000.).
Now you can turn on a system wedge called "Mode Promotion" which will
force most, but not all screens to come up as "fixed" even though the
software did not ask for it. This of course has no effect on self booting
games, since the system's "Mode Promotion" is never seen. What is wrong
with this approach?
Well IMHO:
1.) It presents the user with a confusing, multisync switching, "how
come my screen's not centered", nonconsistent environment.
2.) It requires multisync monitors with a wide scan range – few of
which are being produce outside C=.
3.) The system takes a performance hit when it is asked to produce a
"flicker free" display since it is doing extra work. The 4000 is so fast
that most users might not notice (I did 😉 ), but I don't know about the
1200.
It seems that C= also saw the these limitations since they are going to
produce a 4000 display enhancer that eliminates all these problems and
does even more! 🙂
When they designed to 4000 first they eliminated the 3000's SCSI
interface, and now have to put it back in. Then they eliminated the
display enhancement stuff, and they are going to put that back as well.
What were they thinking of? Oh well we can just blame it on that X PC
engineer – you know the one who designed the PC Jr.'s chicklet keyboard.
😉
…AutoPilot Engaged…
-Paul-
Not to mention that the current AGA machines' boot and 'guru' screens (yes
I know the 'guru' is technically gone 😉 come up at 15.75khz. This means
that a user who decides to go with a cheaper VGA only monitor not only
can't play self-booting games, but can't even see why their machine
crashes!
A rather simple answer to this would have been to make the scan rate a
boot option, similar to the boot disk option. Hold down right mouse
button on boot up for 31khz, leave it alone for 15.75. Or do like Apple
and let the user cycle through different screen modes with mouse clicks
until the right one is found. (This I've heard, but never tried).
Putting the initial screen mode under the control of the boot code would
be a great way to completely support cheaper single-scan monitors for
those that don't do video and don't need video scan rates. I'm sure this
is hurting AGA sales, since the expen$ive mutiltisync must be figured into
the total cost. Look how much it adds to the cost of a 1200!
The A4000 anti-flick boards are NOT going to be cheap, since they'll do a
lot more than flicker-fix, and they certainly won't help the 1200.
//
\X/ Amiga -Steve ——> On AutoPilot from Silicon Valley
"The A4000 anti-flick boards are NOT going to be cheap, since they'll do a
lot more than flicker-fix, and they certainly won't help the 1200."
What more? Tell me! Please!
But you're right, I'm sure – C= won't do much to help 1200 users. I'm
pissed at the documentation that came with mine – no Arexx and no AmigaDOS
docs. Where on earth did C= dig up their brains? These docs say one
thing – "GAME MACHINE" and "NOT SERIOUS" – (two things, actually) to the
world.
Paul
PMFJI,
In regards to Apple graphic/sync modes: I think you're talking about how a
Macintosh 3rd party video card will sync itself up to a monitor… It'll
automatically cycle through all the modes it knows until you tell it to
stop.
On those rare occasions, there's a very convoluted key combination that
will force the card to reinitialize itself.
Miguel ——– AP, AP, and away!
I ordered a scandoubler from a company here in germany a few weeks ago.
Aparenly it doubles the horizontal scanfrequency which willallow you to use any
Multisync monitor. (I have an Eizo 550i which doesnt sync at 15kHz)
It is not a 'Flickerfixer' it just doubles the scan-frequency. (Beats me how it
works, tho. All I know
is that it doen't buffer anything since there's no memory on board.)
If anyone is interested I'll tell you more about it once I have it.
— Quinten
Quinten:
Please let me know its product name, how you like it and wieviel Geld 😎
Meanwhile, I'll hang tight until I hear how much the CBM board for the A4000
will sell for. Scan doubling is all I need.
Regards.
Regards Tom (via Whap!)
Tom, the scandoubler is simplay called Scandoubler. It costs DM470,-.
I have no idea how much that is in dollars.
The company that makes them is called CompServ. (No, not CompuServe)
The address is:
CompServ
Muehlenstrasse 16
D-4790 Paderborn
Germany
Phone: (+49) 5251 24631.
Fax: (+49) 5251 26563
They are currently working on a 1200 board.
Quinten:
(I hope I'm not running up a mega-buck phone bill for you in the event you
are sitting in Germany.) Have you any experience in importing equipment from
the states? If so, has it been tolerable? I may check your source directly,
although it would be nice to find an American importer of German products. For
example, the May issue of AW on p. 12 mentions a high end SCSI II controller
for the A4000. I am interested in this item also. Hmmmmmn….. I wonder what
it would take to sneak the U.S. into the Euro Common Market? 😎
Regards Tom (via Whap!)
Quinten,
DM470 = 300 dollars (approx)
Pete Jones, Brussels, Belgium
flying on Autopilot
Does it plug into the video slot?
Elite MicroComputers – Flying high on AutoPilot
Dave:
yes, it plus into the video slot.