CompuServe Thread

#Sea Levels?

4 messages in this thread
#126559From: Jim Bruton/AZMar 31, 1994 2:06 AM
Chris: If I may venture a reply – I've just joined the forum, so I hope I'm not off base here. Anyway, I like your attraction to off-beat ideas. To quote the late astronomer George Abell, "it's good to have an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out." It is hard to say where all that water would have gone to. Can we narrow the reasonable choices down to continental and sea ice, and atmospheric water vapor? Ice being a little less dense than water, that would necessitate a pretty tall pile of ice to empty a substantial part of the ocean. In fact, if most of it were in the form of continental ice that would possibly place the top of the ice cap in the stratosphere. Hard to get any snowfall in the stratosphere to build that icecap. And consider the 540 calories per gram required in the heat of fusion of water, in changing state from liquid to vapor and visa versa. That's a very great amount of energy required to have been absorbed and released. Where could it have come from? And can the atmosphere hold that much water vapor? I know you said, let's not discuss mechanisms, but these things seem to mainly fall in the category of evidence, seems to me. What evidence would be required to falsify the idea that that much water was relocated in the last 100,000 years? Anyone please comment. My field is astronomy, not geology, so don't be too hard on me, please!
#126580From: Chris TinsleyMar 31, 1994 6:12 AM
Dear Jim, I couldn't agree more! And what about the huge increase in ocean salinity? That would have killed everything! And the stratosphere would have been a mile or two lower, so that would make it even worse. Er, well, I *think* it would have been, sort of, if there were 10 miles or so of ice piled up on the continents. No, it makes no sense at all, it makes plate tectonics look quite tame by comparison. And if there is evidence of unbroken human habitation on the continents throughout the past 100k years, I think that would kill the idea dead. The problem of the canyons seems less easily resolved, but there could be a "wet" explanation obviously. To form an opinion, then in strict logic one must decide whether the deep dredgings and borings give evidence of surface or shallow water deposits formed in situ at the right time. Any idea of mechanism would have to wait for that. Of course I think your narrowing down of locations for all that water seem fair, but it IS strictly wrong to do that. Nothing whatever is relevant except any conclusive evidence for large areas of dry land where now there are miles of water. The chances of finding that are, I believe, effectively nil – the canyons are merely intriguing, they are not solid evidence. None of which will stop me going through those Glomar Challenger reports carefully in the hope of finding any clear evidence either way. I much prefer it in science if facts are presented clearly without causal hypotheses, when the only hypotheses are of the eyebrow-raising quality which seem to characterise the 'explanation' of some awkward results. If somebody says, "Sure, there ARE these canyons and at least one 'delta', sure they look as though the Atlantic was once nearly dry, but that's absurd for a dozen excellent reasons. So the best we can come up with is these turbidity ideas, which may not look too good but they are the best we have," then that's fine by me. I think awkward facts should be left sticking up where everyone can see them. That's not being 'open minded', that's just rationality. Chris
#126665From: Jim Bruton/AZMar 31, 1994 10:46 PM
Chris, OK, you're right about looking for "awkward" facts. This is how theories advance and get changed. It looks as if Occam's razor suggests the underwater mechanisms for carving ocean basin vallies would get first look. Any dry explanations would require extraordinary evidence. I was told in my undergrad oceanography course, a long time ago, that the Med was a dry basin at one period at least. It was fun to imagine the waterfall through the Strait of Gibraltar when the basin flooded – though it might have been a relatively tame event if protracted, I suppose. Can't find the source. Thanks for your reply.
#126679From: Todd FrankApr 1, 1994 12:39 AM
Tame, I heard one physicist make that statement that his calculations indicated, and i am not sure of the distance, but is, if a human would have been anywhere within a few miles of the falls breakout, that the noise of the water falling would have been so great along with the shock wave, they would have been rendered permanetly deaf.