#NAB News
13 messages in this thread
Paul,
Minimum requirement stated by NewTek repeatedly (I know many people
develop mental blocks to this) are 2 1Gig HDs of the fast variety like
Maxtor AV series HDs) and I think they would prefer you to have two 3 gig
drives. Their compression is settable by the the user with suggested
levels for VHS, SVHS, and "D2 Lossless". The only unspoken gotcha is that
composite analog is still comming out the spigot.
Thier compression is the cleanest of the ones I observed there just from
an eyeball standpoint. Increasing the compression, instead of showing
artifacts, begins to look like stuff shot with a camcorderw tiht low SN or
with the gain up about 18 db.
wmc – via Autopilot!
>>Increasing the compression, instead of showing ??artifacts, begins
to look like stuff shot with a camcorderw tiht low SN or ??with the gain
up about 18 db.<<
WOW!
Paul
Jeesh! Do I really type that bad!! YIKES! Its a wonder you could
understand it.
Maybe it was just a noisy line, eh? :^}
wmc – via Autopilot!
The ??s are from PowerSnap, on my end, I think. I was just saying I was
happy that compression resulted in a grainy picture instead of
artifacting! <g>
Paul
Paul,
It was the spelling, not the ?? I was barfing on. I do this stuff late at
night, but didn't realize how many typing mistakes I let by…
wmc – via Autopilot!
>The only unspoken gotcha is that composite analog is still comming out
>the spigot.
You can still use any of the Y/C type component cards. The Flyer doesn't
use any of those connectors.
<<< Tony D. Tracer >>>
(Any render time >0 needs acceleration.)
Yes, Tony, that is true (or at least that is what they said). The only
reason I pointed that out was for the naysayers who will say that since
the signal out is composite analog it is not D2 and therefore NewTek's
claim of D2 quality is false.
I'm a little sensitive on that as there was a NewTek dealer who was at the
show standing at the back of the crowd with several people around him on
Wed, I believe it was. He was vociferously and angrily denouncing NewTek
as liars for saying it was D2 quality, saying that if they were honest
they would show a split screen with real D2 (or at least BetaCam) on one
side and Flyer on the other. Then, he contended, everyone would see what
a crock the Flyer was.
I then told him to go ask James (who was demoing at the time) to show him
just that. I believe they showed that in after-session "gather round"
discussions at the roll-out meeting on Sunday nite, except that it was on
side-by-side monitors instead, I believe.
Anyway, the guy didn't want to do it, but his buddies started to drag him
to the podium. Having instigated (quite nicely, I thought :^} I left. I
have no idea what the outcome was, or why the guy's patootie was so hot.
I was also trying to see the name on his badge, but all I could see was
that he was from Michigan. Older white guy with glasses, full beard and
mustache, about 5' 11, probably 180, brown hair. I wanted to pass his
name along to NewTek. Seems dealers like that should not be dealers at
all IMHO. I mean, before you start campaigning, get the facts, do the
tests. If the company is lying, then, being a moral person he should drop
his dealership arrangement and that will be that.
BTW, the Flyer includes two inputs. One composite and one Y/C, either of
wich require TBC feeds. It is not clear to me at this point if both can
be used (i.e. selectable input for compression to disk) or if you really
only have one input and it is selected via a DIP.
wmc – via Autopilot!
I thought D2 WAS composite video. D2 is the composite video signal stored
in digital form. This is what is stored in the Toaster's framebuffers.
The Toaster manipulates "D2" type data in it's buffers. To write an RGB
graphic to the Toaster's framebuffers, software calculates what the
waveform of the composite video would look like at that point. This is
why you get that 4 pixel (and line) chunky look with the Toaster DVE
effects. You have to work with 4 pixels at a time to get the color
correct in the composite video waveform. I think they now have a filter
(analog?) on the output which does a very good jog of smoothing out that
chunky look.
D2 defines a system for storing and transmitting a digitized composite
video signal. So there would be some generation loss converting between
say, the Flyer and other D2 equipment because you are transmitting an
analog signal instead of digital data. But nowhere near the kind of
generation loss you get from storing analog signals to video tape.
The Toaster and D2 make a very good match. Didn't Newtek make a true D2
digital connector option for the Toaster? The Toaster and Y/C is a
somewhat less perfect match. The Toaster and D1 is a bad match.
D1 defines a method for storing and transmitting the digital RGB data as 8
or 10 bits RGB plus an Alpha channel. I think Digital Betacam is similar
but uses 422 or 444 YUV data or something like that.
I could be completely wrong about everything above, but then again, I
might be right. <g>
-Jerry Thompson
D1 and Digital Betacam are the same as far as inputs and outputs go. The
difference (beside $50K!) is that Digital Betacam compresses and decompresses
between inputs and outputs, so the output isn't the same as the input
(identical to the eye, but not digitally the same).
Yes, D2 is composite video, but it is DIGITAL composite. Once you go back
to analog, some purists say it can no longer be referred to as D2, just
composite. I'm guessing, but I think NewTek's position is if it meets
chroma bandwidth and S/N specs of D2, even while in analog, then it is "D2
Quality" which is what they advertise. The complaint about them
misleading people was that since the signal from the spigot on the Toaster
is analog and not digital it is not D2. However, since they say D2
quality, they may be correct.
I personally don't care what it is called as long as it looks good enough
on tape to be paid a decent amount for the effort. So far that hasn't
been an issue.
wmc – via Autopilot!
The Flyer's STILL composite only? I guess this is because it still connects to
the Toaster in some way, right?
As for the compression info you gave, sounds great! I hope they sell a
zillion.
Paul,
As I understand it, it has composite and Y/C inputs plus two channels of
stereo audio input. Its outptus are two channels of composite that I
think (someone who knows for sure please confirm/correct) connect
internally to two channels of the video toaster board and two channels of
stereo output. Based on looking at the picture of the board and the vague
memory I have of my peak at the Flyer's backside at the show, I think the
"two channels of stereo…" are actually one left-right pair. I think the
Flyer board external connector configuration is (from top to bottom) 1 Y/C
4 pin mini DIN, 1 BNC, 4 RCA jacks. Internally there appear to be 3 SCSI
internal connectors (advertised to be SCSI-2) indicating 3 SCSI
controllers on the board (for up to 21 HDs to feed it) and four other
header type connectors at least 2 of which look to me like they cable over
to the Toaster board.
Note that they advise that a TBC is still necessary to feed it, and the
minimum config is said to require two 1 gig HDs not included in the cost
of the board. It also appears that the software will be delivered on
CD-ROM.
wmc – via Autopilot!