CompuServe Thread

#Flicker drives me nuts

13 messages in this thread
#138193From: Carl HansenApr 6, 1994 11:06 AM
All… I recently purchased a used A1200 with GVP 030 40mzh accelerator. It also came with a 1960 multisync monitor. My problem is that in the higher resolutions there is some pretty bad flicker. I would generally refer to it as "rolling flicker" in that it seems to go banding down the monitor. It seems worse when there is some CPU activity ongoing – such as the mouse moving, program opening etc. There is a second problem in that many programs open on a lower resolution screen, way to the left of the monitor. Some programs actually open with part of the programs window off the left side of the monitor and unreachable. Finally there is a screen in the background – found by pulling down the workbench screen that is about 1/4 black and 3/4 grey. What is this? I can't move it or do anything with it. I am currently using Super72 interlace monitor driver with screen res set at 800×600.This has given me the least problem but the flicker is driving me nuts. Is this related to the software deinterlacing done on the A1200 as opposed to the hardware deinterlacing done on my A3000s? Would a hardware deinterlacer work here and resolve this problem or am I just not setting the monitor up correctly. Thanks for any advice. ..Carl
#138196From: Wayne SteeleApr 6, 1994 12:16 PM
Super72 800×600 is interlaced, even on AGA. It doesn't flicker as bad as NTSC 640×400 interlaced because it uses a 72-Hz refresh as opposed to a 60-Hz one. To get a non-interlaced AGA display, you need to use DblNTSC or DblPAL. You can also avoid flicker by using the non-interlaced resolutions of the other modes. For example, Super72 800×300 is not interlaced. To totally avoid flicker in all resolutions, a hardware de-interlacer is required. You should download the latest version of MonEd. It'll allow you to tweak sizes, positions, and frequencies of your monitor drivers. Also, see if you can get a copy of the 1942 setup disk. Although you don't have a 1942, the new monitor drivers, overscan prefs, and setpatch programs should help your situation. There is a fix on-line here for the vertical banding problem that some A1200's and A4000's suffer. It's an easy fix that's applied to the 23 to 15 pin adapter.
#138347From: Carl HansenApr 7, 1994 11:28 AM
Wayne… Thanks for the information. I have printed it out and will take it home tonight and work with the A1200 and see what I can accomplish. ..Carl
#138285From: Ronald B. RomineApr 6, 1994 11:57 PM
CH >>My problem is that in the higher resolutions there is some pretty bad flicker.<< What monitor drivers are you using? You can have high resolutions with both the NTSC & PAL drivers, BUT you need to use the Double-NTSC & Double-PAL drivers to have a higher refresh rate. The Double-NTSC, Double-PAL, Euro72, & Multiscan drivers, have a vertical refresh rates almost twice that of the NTSC, PAL, & Euro36 drivers. The Super72 driver, can generate a 800×300 screenmode with a vertical refresh rate of ~24-kHz (higher that NTSC, but lower than Multiscan), and a horizonal refresh rate of 72-Hz. The screen can be interlaced for a resolution of 800×600. — If the screen isn't properly centered, try using the Overscan program, located in the PREFS drawer. It will need to be used for each monitor driver. If that doesn't help, look on local BBS's for either "setp4014.lha" or "1942mon.lha", or "V39_update.lha", which contain updated versions of the monitor drivers, Overscan, and the Setpatch. — Selecting the "mode promotion" option of Icontrol, will inform the system that you want the Dbl-PAl & Dbl-NTSC drivers substituted for the PAL & NTSC screens. Icontrol doesn't work too well. Look in the Libraries for a program called "PPrefs.LHA". This is a promoter that works with most screens & resolutions, and it allows the user to select what screen types get promoted and what mode to promote them into. — CH >>Is this related to the software deinterlacing done on the A1200 as opposed to the hardware deinterlacing done on my A3000s?<< Yes, and no. In the past the hardware de-lacers for the Amiga, would convert ~15-kHz NTSC & PAL screens into ~31-kHz VGA screens. They captured the video data after the screen was generated, re-mixed it, and sent the video signal out at a higher rate. The Amiga's output hadn't changed, it was simply intercepted, and altered. The de-lacers expected to find only ~15-kHz video signals, and resolutions of 320 or 640 pixels wide, and 200 to 512 pixels tall. The AGA (& ECS) now outputs ~15-kHz, ~24-kHZ, ~31-Khz, with resolutions from 160 to 1280 wide, and 150 to 1024 pixels tall. De-lacing became a little more complicated. The A1200's (& A4000's) mode promotion feature attempts to identify what screenmode is being used, see if there is a alternative listed, then create that screenmode instead. There isn't any real de-lacing since the promotion allows skipping the generation of the laced version of the screen. Promotion, would be better described as a screenmode/resolution cross matching system for selecting one of many alternative screenmodes. — There are a few problems with the promotion. First, the system has to signaled, that you want a screenmode promoted. Programs that use a custom bootdisk, often will not include a way to activate the promotion. Second, the built-in promoter only bothers to promote a limited number of resolutions. This can be fixed by a third party promotion software, such as PPrefs. Third, there are programs whose graphics bypass the OS, preventing the promoter from substituting the requested screenmode for that program. These programs may be system friendly in every other way, but the OS's graphic system is blind to their existance. Ron. – ap'ing with AP. (Eagles may fly, but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines.)
#138348From: Carl HansenApr 7, 1994 11:33 AM
Ron… Thanks for your very indepth response. I have printed it out and will be taking it home with me to work on the A1200 tonight. The SYSOPs should save a copy of your reply and save it in the library so that future requests for this type of information can directed to this file and save you'll from having to type so much. Again thanks for taking so much time to respond in such detail. ..Carl
#138824From: ray greenApr 11, 1994 11:07 PM
Carl.. Did you buy your amiga used? If so, then you are experiencing a problem related to older a1200's. I have one of the early 1200's and experience the exact symptoms you are describing. Even when running in 72Hz productivity mode there is still "rolling flicker", especially when the cpu is busy or the drives are accessed. I've heard different explanations for this problem but I have never seen a hardware fix presented for it. Hopefully some techie out there has an answer and can post it. I heard that commodore would fix it, but my computer is no longer under warranty, and I'm not sure about leaving my system with Commodore anyway in their present state. Try the Euro 72Hz mode to reduce your flicker, but a true fix will require some kind of hardware mod. – Ray
#138950From: Carl HansenApr 13, 1994 11:14 AM
Ray… You hit the nail on the head. I did purchase the A1200 used and it is a little over a year old now. I hadn't heard about the pr problem previously thanks for the information that it isn't something I am doing wrong. By the way I obtained copies of the 1942 monitor drivers that some suggested might help and they don't seem to have helped. Now I have another problem in that I ran a new program and when I told it to use the workbench screen it locked up the machine. Now when I boot up I have a grey column (dark grey) on the left of the screen during bootup. After bootup that same grey column remains and that portion of workbench or any loaded program doesn't appear on screen. I had never believed that a program could damage hardware but it sure looks as if this one did. ..Carl
#139105From: Brian BartlettApr 14, 1994 5:00 AM
Carl, you didn't say what program it was. Perhaps someone with experience with it can help. Also, did you make sure to completely remove it? Lastly, you could try blowing away all the files in your ENVARC: directory and recopying them from floppy (make a backup and restore from that if this doesn't work). After the copy, wait a few seconds and reboot. See if the column goes away. Some programs monkey with the Preferences settings in your environment and you can cure it this way.
#139118From: Carl HansenApr 14, 1994 6:54 AM
Brian… I didn't mention the program because I didn't want to start a flame thread when I can't be positive it was that program that did the damage. If noone can however come up with a hardware cause or fix I will name the program so that others who might have it can give me some feedback on their experience. I did try removing all of the ENVARC: files and replaced all of the monitor devices. It didn't correct the problem. Since the dark grey column appears on the first screen at bootup I am almost convinced it has to be a hardware problem – though I will certainly try any other solutions suggested. By first screen at bootup, above, I mean the light grey screen that comes up on the monitor when I turn on the computer. I have been told that the early production A1200s have a hardware problem that causes a "rolling flicker" in the crt output. I don't know but mayby this program did something that sent the faulty hardware over the edge. Have you heard anything about a hardware problem with early A1200's and if so what the solution is? The computer is useless to me as it is since I can't get a full screen of any program on the monitor at this time. Thanks for your interest in helping me with this problem and if you think I should name the program I will. It is a recent upgrade of an older program that I have used about this time of year for several years. ..Carl
#139200From: Chris LesterApr 14, 1994 9:42 PM
It's not just the first ones…. my A1200 does it as well… I though I just might be running the monitor cable by two manner powercords. Can I work this thing out with MONED? Chris – Fast and Low on my '020! …Is it significant that my spell checker doesn't know "Intel"?
#139272From: Carl HansenApr 15, 1994 8:15 AM
Chris… I have monkeyed around with Moned without beneficial results. My monitor cable really doesn't run past that many power cables. I wish C= was in a good enough state that they had customer support so that I could get a difinitive answer whether this is a hardware problem or system setup problem. *B^( I know people who have A1200s that don't have this problem so I feel it has to be flakey hardware somewhere. If you find out something please let me know and I'll do likewise. ..Carl
#139348From: Chris LesterApr 15, 1994 8:58 PM
I didn't hold the older message… but are you suing the 1084? How about the others who DON'T have the problem? Just trying to sort out an answer…. Chris – Fast and Low on my '020! …Is it significant that my spell checker doesn't know "Intel"?
#139626From: Carl HansenApr 18, 1994 7:29 AM
Chris… No I have a 1960 and a 1950 (monitors) that I have tried on the A1200. Both have the problem/ ..Carl