#Flicker drives me nuts
13 messages in this thread
All…
I recently purchased a used A1200 with GVP 030 40mzh accelerator. It also came
with a 1960 multisync monitor.
My problem is that in the higher resolutions there is some pretty bad flicker.
I would generally refer to it as "rolling flicker" in that it seems to go
banding down the monitor. It seems worse when there is some CPU activity
ongoing – such as the mouse moving, program opening etc.
There is a second problem in that many programs open on a lower resolution
screen, way to the left of the monitor. Some programs actually open with part
of the programs window off the left side of the monitor and unreachable.
Finally there is a screen in the background – found by pulling down the
workbench screen that is about 1/4 black and 3/4 grey. What is this? I can't
move it or do anything with it.
I am currently using Super72 interlace monitor driver with screen res set at
800×600.This has given me the least problem but
the flicker is driving me nuts. Is this related to the software deinterlacing
done on the A1200 as opposed to the hardware deinterlacing done on my A3000s?
Would a hardware deinterlacer work here and resolve this problem or am I just
not setting the monitor up correctly.
Thanks for any advice.
..Carl
Super72 800×600 is interlaced, even on AGA. It doesn't flicker as bad as NTSC
640×400 interlaced because it uses a 72-Hz refresh as opposed to a 60-Hz one.
To get a non-interlaced AGA display, you need to use DblNTSC or DblPAL. You
can also avoid flicker by using the non-interlaced resolutions of the other
modes. For example, Super72 800×300 is not interlaced. To totally avoid
flicker in all resolutions, a hardware de-interlacer is required.
You should download the latest version of MonEd. It'll allow you to tweak
sizes, positions, and frequencies of your monitor drivers. Also, see if you
can get a copy of the 1942 setup disk. Although you don't have a 1942, the new
monitor drivers, overscan prefs, and setpatch programs should help your
situation.
There is a fix on-line here for the vertical banding problem that some A1200's
and A4000's suffer. It's an easy fix that's applied to the 23 to 15 pin
adapter.
Wayne…
Thanks for the information. I have printed it out and will take it home
tonight and work with the A1200 and see what I can accomplish.
..Carl
CH >>My problem is that in the higher resolutions there is some pretty bad
flicker.<<
What monitor drivers are you using? You can have high resolutions with
both the NTSC & PAL drivers, BUT you need to use the Double-NTSC &
Double-PAL drivers to have a higher refresh rate.
The Double-NTSC, Double-PAL, Euro72, & Multiscan drivers, have a vertical
refresh rates almost twice that of the NTSC, PAL, & Euro36 drivers.
The Super72 driver, can generate a 800×300 screenmode with a vertical
refresh rate of ~24-kHz (higher that NTSC, but lower than Multiscan),
and a horizonal refresh rate of 72-Hz. The screen can be interlaced for a
resolution of 800×600.
—
If the screen isn't properly centered, try using the Overscan program,
located in the PREFS drawer. It will need to be used for each monitor
driver. If that doesn't help, look on local BBS's for either
"setp4014.lha" or "1942mon.lha", or "V39_update.lha", which contain
updated versions of the monitor drivers, Overscan, and the Setpatch.
—
Selecting the "mode promotion" option of Icontrol, will inform the system
that you want the Dbl-PAl & Dbl-NTSC drivers substituted for the PAL &
NTSC screens.
Icontrol doesn't work too well. Look in the Libraries for a program
called "PPrefs.LHA". This is a promoter that works with most screens &
resolutions, and it allows the user to select what screen types get
promoted and what mode to promote them into.
—
CH >>Is this related to the software deinterlacing done on the A1200 as
opposed to the hardware deinterlacing done on my A3000s?<<
Yes, and no.
In the past the hardware de-lacers for the Amiga, would convert ~15-kHz
NTSC & PAL screens into ~31-kHz VGA screens. They captured the video data
after the screen was generated, re-mixed it, and sent the video signal out
at a higher rate. The Amiga's output hadn't changed, it was simply
intercepted, and altered.
The de-lacers expected to find only ~15-kHz video signals, and resolutions
of 320 or 640 pixels wide, and 200 to 512 pixels tall.
The AGA (& ECS) now outputs ~15-kHz, ~24-kHZ, ~31-Khz, with resolutions
from 160 to 1280 wide, and 150 to 1024 pixels tall. De-lacing became a
little more complicated.
The A1200's (& A4000's) mode promotion feature attempts to identify what
screenmode is being used, see if there is a alternative listed, then
create that screenmode instead. There isn't any real de-lacing since the
promotion allows skipping the generation of the laced version of the
screen.
Promotion, would be better described as a screenmode/resolution cross
matching system for selecting one of many alternative screenmodes.
—
There are a few problems with the promotion.
First, the system has to signaled, that you want a screenmode promoted.
Programs that use a custom bootdisk, often will not include a way to
activate the promotion.
Second, the built-in promoter only bothers to promote a limited number of
resolutions. This can be fixed by a third party promotion software, such
as PPrefs.
Third, there are programs whose graphics bypass the OS, preventing the
promoter from substituting the requested screenmode for that program.
These programs may be system friendly in every other way, but the OS's
graphic system is blind to their existance.
Ron.
– ap'ing with AP. (Eagles may fly, but weasels aren't sucked
into jet engines.)
Ron…
Thanks for your very indepth response. I have printed it out and will be
taking it home with me to work on the A1200 tonight. The SYSOPs should save a
copy of your reply and save it in the library so that future requests for this
type of information can directed to this file and save you'll from having to
type so much.
Again thanks for taking so much time to respond in such detail.
..Carl
Carl..
Did you buy your amiga used? If so, then you are experiencing a problem
related to older a1200's. I have one of the early 1200's and experience the
exact symptoms you are describing. Even when running in 72Hz productivity mode
there is still "rolling flicker", especially when the cpu is busy or the drives
are accessed. I've heard different explanations for this problem but I have
never seen a hardware fix presented for it. Hopefully some techie out there
has an answer and can post it. I heard that commodore would fix it, but my
computer is no longer under warranty, and I'm not sure about leaving my system
with Commodore anyway in their present state. Try the Euro 72Hz mode to reduce
your flicker, but a true fix will require some kind of hardware mod.
– Ray
Ray…
You hit the nail on the head. I did purchase the A1200 used and it is a little
over a year old now. I hadn't heard about the pr problem previously thanks for
the information that it isn't something I am doing wrong. By the way I
obtained copies of the 1942 monitor drivers that some suggested might help and
they don't seem to have helped.
Now I have another problem in that I ran a new program and when I told it to
use the workbench screen it locked up the machine. Now when I boot up I have a
grey column (dark grey) on the left of the screen during bootup. After bootup
that same grey column remains and that portion of workbench or any loaded
program doesn't appear on screen. I had never believed that a program could
damage hardware but it sure looks as if this one did.
..Carl
Carl,
you didn't say what program it was. Perhaps someone with experience
with it can help. Also, did you make sure to completely remove it?
Lastly, you could try blowing away all the files in your ENVARC: directory
and recopying them from floppy (make a backup and restore from that if
this doesn't work). After the copy, wait a few seconds and reboot. See
if the column goes away.
Some programs monkey with the Preferences settings in your environment
and you can cure it this way.
Brian…
I didn't mention the program because I didn't want to start a flame thread when
I can't be positive it was that program that did the damage. If noone can
however come up with a hardware cause or fix I will name the program so that
others who might have it can give me some feedback on their experience.
I did try removing all of the ENVARC: files and replaced all of the monitor
devices. It didn't correct the problem. Since the dark grey column appears on
the first screen at bootup I am almost convinced it has to be a hardware
problem – though I will certainly try any other solutions suggested. By first
screen at bootup, above, I mean the light grey screen that comes up on the
monitor when I turn on the computer.
I have been told that the early production A1200s have a hardware problem that
causes a "rolling flicker" in the crt output. I don't know but mayby this
program did something that sent the faulty hardware over the edge. Have you
heard anything about a hardware problem with early A1200's and if so what the
solution is?
The computer is useless to me as it is since I can't get a full screen of any
program on the monitor at this time.
Thanks for your interest in helping me with this problem and if you think I
should name the program I will. It is a recent upgrade of an older program that
I have used about this time of year for several years.
..Carl
It's not just the first ones…. my A1200 does it as well… I though I
just might be running the monitor cable by two manner powercords.
Can I work this thing out with MONED?
Chris – Fast and Low on my '020!
…Is it significant that my spell checker doesn't know "Intel"?
Chris…
I have monkeyed around with Moned without beneficial results. My monitor cable
really doesn't run past that many power cables. I wish C= was in a good enough
state that they had customer support so that I could get a difinitive answer
whether this is a hardware problem or system setup problem. *B^(
I know people who have A1200s that don't have this problem so I feel it has to
be flakey hardware somewhere.
If you find out something please let me know and I'll do likewise.
..Carl
I didn't hold the older message… but are you suing the 1084?
How about the others who DON'T have the problem?
Just trying to sort out an answer….
Chris – Fast and Low on my '020!
…Is it significant that my spell checker doesn't know "Intel"?
Chris…
No I have a 1960 and a 1950 (monitors) that I have tried on the A1200. Both
have the problem/
..Carl