PAR?
24 messages in this thread
Alan:
Of course I was there. You guys were great! Unfortunately, I "forgot" who made
it. Speaking of 3d Artist, "Where's the latest edition?" Mine is #13. The
magazine says "published UP TO 12 times a year." The last one was absolutely
incredible but it's been about 2 months.
I'm anxious to read your article and "win" the PAR door prize at the meeting
Thursday. <G>
See you there.
Jerry
Sheesh, don't start any rumours, Jerry!<g>
The next issue of 3DA is due any time, and probably being held up by the very
thing that will make this issue very different than any other to date. This is
what I am guessing, anyway, as I haven't spoken to BillA in a while.
See ya tommorrow night!
-Alan
Alan and all;
If you don't mind, I have some questions about the PAR.
If you get the PAR board and TBC 4, and a recommended HD, is there anything
else needed? Ok, a computer, 3DS, etc <g>. I mean would I need a special
monitor? Would I need a special VCR?
All input welcome,
Thanks,
Dennis
Dennis:
Nothing else is needed, any TV set will do, any VCR will do!
Greg Pyros
Like Greg said, a regular TV will display the PAR's output just fine, but if
you are going out to a high-level video format (like BetaSP) to be edited in a
professional suite, you may benefit from a high-end video monitor. At *least*
get yourself a newer, higher-res TV with a Y/C input.
Likewise, an everyday VCR will record your animations to VHS OK, but SVHS (with
the Y/C output) is MUCH cleaner, and not that expensive. Of course, if the
high-end is your likely output, BetaSP or MII is the way to go using the CAV
outputs from the PAR.
A video camera is nice for acquiring live footage for grabbing with the TBCIV,
but of course, any VCR works for this.
-Alan
Thanks Alan and Greg;
>> Like Greg said, a regular TV will display the PAR's output just fine,
Dennis
>> Like Greg said, a regular TV will display the PAR's output just fine…
Well sort of, but it really won't do the PAR's output quality justice. <g>
-JE
John;
>> >> Like Greg said, a regular TV will display the PAR's output just
>> fine… Well sort of, but it really won't do the PAR's output quality
>> justice. <g>
Thanks for replying John. From your messages on the forum, it sounds like you
are really happy with the PAR.
Could you make a recommendation on what type of "TV" or "monitor" would do the
PAR's output justice? Without costing too much- – -. <G> And then maybe even
some that do cost too much. I can always dream! <g>
At present, I only have a very crude TV, and an old VCR. I may eventually
purchase a SVHS VCR, and a new monitor, but I haven't any idea what would be
adequite for a device like the PAR.
Thanks,
Dennis
Dennis,
I think you're going about it the right way as anything you want your output to
have the best potential for the money. The Par indeed fits that category. Later
on when you've done some animations and put them out to Beta SP and wow'd a
client, you'll want a better monitor. The fact is however that unless you're
willing to cart your PAR to a facility that has a Beta SP deck with decent
monitors you're not going to be able to impress anybody. I'm sure you won't
mind, if you're committed, to doing that. The price of starting from the ground
up. Suffice it to say you won't be embarrassed by the PAR's output. And the
Beta tape you have in your hands when you walk out will be far better than any
of the alternatives for twice the price.
That being said a good Component monitor will run you about $1100. I've got a
couple but I'm really happy with my Panasonic BT-H1350y which displays 700
lines of resolution has RGB, Component, Composite and SVHS input. It also has
Cross bars and Blue Gun which is essential for setting up a monitor with Color
Bars. Its a no frills high resolution Broadcast monitor for a price that can't
be beat. Its got what you need including a audio monitor jack. I haven't seen
anything out there that even comes close. Sony has some good ones in the PVM
line also with which you can compare. I've learned in the last few months that
many people here have one though monitors aren't discussed here frequently.
Which means alot of people have come to the same conclusion with out speaking
with each other about it.
And yes I am very happy with the PAR. Its exceeded my highest expectations but
that's probably because I'm pretty skeptical about new technology. <g>
-JE
John;
>> I'm really happy with my Panasonic BT-H1350y which displays 700 lines
>> of resolution has RGB, Component, Composite and SVHS input.
Thanks for answering.
I know very, very little about video terms. I know that RGB means
Red, Green, Blue. I know that SVHS stands for Super VHS. As far as
which one is better and which is worse, I am not really sure. If you
could point me to a book that covers this, I would be grateful.
Or even a simple;
A= worst,
B= next to worst,
C= next to best,
D= best,
would be appreciated.
Also, if you don't mind some basic questions, I have been following the PAR
thread for a few months. I have saved everything that sounded important.
I just searched the file, and found that Don Landis talked about a
CAV option for the PAR board available soon.
1. What is CAV? It sounds like a good thing.
2. What is Y/C? Some kind of connection?
3. Does the monitor you mention have capabilities to use these features when
they are available?
Sorry for all the questions, but I've noticed you know a lot about
this.
I'm just trying to get the answers before I buy the wrong thing.
Thanks,
Dennis
I have the same monitor John E. mentioned (he suggested it to me, and after
checking the options I bought it).
CAV is component output/input. It is Y, Y-R, Y-B, or encoded R,G,B. This is
the signal you would use for Betacam SP. The PAR either comes with it, or has
it as an option (I don't have one, so I'm not sure which).
Y-C is a lower end component signal, same thing as S-video. It seprates
crominance from luminance, but there's still some disadvantages of carrying all
the color information on the same channel, so it's not as tight as CAV or RGB.
Y-C is what you would use for S-VHS, Hi-8, and also many 3/4" decks have it.
Composite is the lowest end, as it carries all information on the same channel
which means there's a lot of bleed, chroma crawl, and general instability of
the signal. This is used for VHS, and 3/4", typically.
The Panasonic BT-H1350Y can take all of these inputs, and can has buttons on
the front that let you have three different input channels to select from
without messing with cables in the back. I have button A set for Y-C, button B
set for composite, and the third button defaults at RGB or Y, Y-R, Y-B.
John Tissavary (LUNA cie)
I think that's another thing all the John's have in common, the H1350. I think
I remember JKJ mentioning he had one too. <g> Thanks for your help with the
answer to Dennis's questions. I think we got it covered. <G>
-JE
John;
>> I have the same monitor John E. mentioned (he suggested it to me, and
>> after checking the options I bought it).
Thanks for your explanations of video terminology. And for the further options
available for that particular monitor. It does sound like a good one.
Thanks,
Dennis
Good questions! It does get confusing which is which and what is what. <g>
In the recent past your basic choices where RGB, SVHS and Composite.
There are two types or RGB which confuses things further. In the computer world
RGB usually means SVGA _not to be confused with SVHS 🙁
In the video world RGB is a 15Khz output signal which outputs Red Green and
Blue. You need a low frequency monitor as opposed to SVGA which typically
requires a 60Khz and up monitor. So aside from your SVGA monitor you need
another Video monitor.
Ok. so you've got an SVGA display card already and then the question is what
kind of video output framebuffer are you going to be using.
As you know the PAR outputs Component or CAV, SVHS or Y/C and Composite. Of the
three Component is the best, followed by SVHS and finally composite. In your
situation with a standard T.V. you will (per Allen's recommendation) be using
SVHS. Which is not bad but doesn't have near the resolution of the Panasonic.
(400 lines as opposed to 700 with the Panasonic) Beta SP is Component output or
CAV and has the highest resolution potential.
Less than a year ago most people had framebuffers that output RGB, SVHS and
composite. Composite is a standard NTSC signal and is the dirtest output of the
bunch. This is because all the signals like Hue, Luminance and Saturation are
all mixed together. SVHS and Component seperate the signals. As does RGB which
also has a fourth signal Sync.
Examples of Framebuffers that output RGB,SVHS and Composite where boards like
the Targa 32/64. The original AT-Vista had RGB and Alpha only.
Recently there has been a shift to Component or CAV as opposed to RGB. RGB and
Component are easier on the eyes with a long persistence monitor, than
Composite or SVHS. Typically Broadcast monitors are not long persistence but
Component output doesn't flicker like Composite.
All this is moot if you plan to do painting in Windows which is really why
you'd have a dedicated frame-buffer or for outputing to tape, which you won't
need to do if you have the PAR.
There are advantages to having a dedicated framebuffer but I think for the time
being you don't need to concern yourself with this as getting a good video
monitor along with a good SVGA monitor for Windows along with a good 24 bit
display card for painting is what you'll need. You may already have these I
don't know.
I don't know of any good books to recommend, but there are many multi-media
magazine out now which explain these inter-related topics concerning video and
computers. "New Media", and "PC Graphics and Video" are two I'd recommend.
-JE
John E. & T.-
Thanks for the video info. Quicky classes like these are really invaluable for
me.
John;
Thanks for your very detailed explanations. It certainly helps. Also thanks
for explaining the difference between two types of RGB. It really gets
complicated. Now all it depends on is how much I want to spend. <g>
I am saving this and similar comments to re-read for when I am ready to
purchase.
I really appreciate your help.
Dennis
>>I just searched the file, and found that Don Landis talked about a
CAV option for the PAR board available soon.
The PAR comes with a breakout cable to output the CAV signals. The PAR has
output jacks the allow simultaneous composit, Y/C, and CAV cabling. The TBC
IV, which is required for inputing live video for rotoscoping with the PAR only
has the y/c signal and composite but I understand that a CAV input option card
is soon to be available. Check with Dave White, DPS here on the forum for
status. Currently I input with beta SP to the y/c input for best par/TBC IV
quality. I then output CAV from the PAR to beta SP, Y/C to SVHS, and composite
to all other media.
Don;
>> I then output CAV from the PAR to beta SP, Y/C to SVHS, and composite
>> to all other media.
Thanks for your added input on the monitor and PAR usage.
Dennis
John,
FYI, the appropriate Sony monitors with similar capabilities to your
Panasonic are the new PVM-1354Q (SMPTE C), or PVM-1351Q (P22 phosphors).
Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
I checked out the Sonys and they were excellent, too. I would have, normally,
gone with Sony, but they did not offer the 750 line of res like the Panasonic,
and I did notice the difference. If Sony had an equivalent monitor, even for a
bit more $$$, I probably would have bought it (sad, but true <g>).
John Tissavary (LUNA cie)
>> PVM-1354Q and the PVM-1351Q <<
Thanks Kevin, if pricing is comparable, I like the Sony PVM series very much,
and would also seriously consider them as an option. As an aesthetic thing, the
Panasonic goes well with my component Technics Pro Series audio gear. (A
personal consideration all else being equal.)
-JE
Dennis
I'm using a Sony PVM 1540 that I picked up for $850. It is only 450 lines of
resolution but it does have blue only mode and is a pretty good industrial
choice, IMHO.
TedB
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Ted the Sony PVM 1540 is another good choice but considering he'll probably
have the monitor around for quite awhile, I'd recommend spending the additional
$200 and have all the options. But it definitely is worth considering and
should be considered as an option.
Thanks,
-JE
Ted;
>> I'm using a Sony PVM 1540
Thanks for providing another possible option. I LOVE options! <G>
Dennis