Daytona
23 messages in this thread
Fred,
On one level that's a scream! On another rather disturbing. <g>
How do you like NT? Was there a particular reason for having that OS?
Just curious.
-JE
John,
I guess the reason I am using NT is because I got it for "free", Great reason.
<g> When Microsoft started the "Developers Network," I signed up, because the
price was only $69. I do a little programming, but mostly have kept up the
products. So when the Win32 SDK arrived with NT on it I thought I would try
it. I was also having problems with our little network and WFWG. After I
cleaned and decompressed the HD, so it would fit, I found that it worked
wonderfully for the network features. Mind you I had only 8megs then so it ran
slowly. But after all of the trouble and the great network response, I kept at
it.
Since then I have gotten up to 16 megs and everything runs faster. 🙂
As someone else stated recently, it is faster then Win 3.1, especially when
loading programs. I guess that it is not alot quicker in running or loading
programs but it gives you control back almost instantly while it does the other
job in the background. So now I can continue to play games while Word is
loading. And, besides, it comes with a great game called Freecell. <G>
So I guess that I'll stay with it on my machine, but I still run WFWG on the
other machine(s). I do wish that more programs were specific to the OS,
although I guess that will happen. I also hope to run 3DS from within NT, as
always Pharlap is the culprit, not wanting to share. That is why I am hopeful
about Frontrunner. But as you speculated, I'll probably be disappointed. As
it stands now, I have two multiple configs for the computer. Nt or DOS and
then under DOS I have to choose from 3DS, AniPro or Tips. Don't ask! I think
there was a plot to get me in Jan. when this fragile beast we call advanced
technology, decided to take a temper tantrum and not work with anything in
concert. So I split them all up, just like kids.
As fars as high speed crashes, I have not had that problem, in fact it is
almost the opposite. Only twice have I not had the opportunity to bail out of
a stalled program. It is nice to not have to reboot and/or loose your work in
another program. <g>
Fred
Fred,
I've considered getting NT and OS/2, especially as I see the writing on the
wall, but as you pointed out there aren't alot of apps written for it yet, but
that is slowly changing as well. I expect that by the time R4 is released there
will be, but the question is which of these two will be predominant. Its a good
idea to get a jump on it I think, as I've heard there's a learning curve to it
as well. Not having the need, I haven't taken the plunge. Got plenty to manage
as it is. It never ends. <g>
-JE
I'll bet you large sums of money that NT will be more prevalent in the higher
end computing world than OS/2, especially where Autodesk is concerned. OS/2, I
think, is more in the Chicago race than the NT race.
John Tissavary (LUNA cie)
John,
OS/2 has currently the largest installed user base by far. I don't know what
you mean by higher end computing. Commericial banking software for instance is
being written and is running on OS/2, (which is a major change for the industry
BTW) and there is a very large installed Corporate base running IBM PC's and
OS/2. Also many more applications are currently available for OS/2 than NT.
As far as Autodesk is concerned that's another story. Autodesk may decide to
tie their fortunes with Microsoft and there are some good reasons for doing so.
How many other developers will follow suit is another question. The installed
Windows base is very large relatively speaking. Will Fractal Painter for
instance want to NT? I have no idea.
-JE
What do you mean with commercial banking software being written for OS/2? Do
you mean all the commercial banking software or just one of your banks <G>? I
was surprised to see that, in Europe, Barklays bank is running entirely on
Windows (?????) the same that Nations Bank, here in the states. I can't see how
anybody could build a reliable network of that size in Windoze. Well, maybe
they don't have to deal with soundcards <BG>
ana /krazy images
Ana,
>> Do you mean all the commercial banking software… <<
No there are several companies providing banking software, just like there are
several companies providing animation software. But for instance Chase Bank is
implementing a banking software developed by Lansa and Case tools for OS/2 and
the Bank of Canada is supposed to be following suit. There are several
off-shore banks as well, but Chase is the first big player with all the major
banks expected to follow suit.
>> I can't see how anybody could build a reliable network of that size in
Windoze… <<
Which is why Lansa on OS/2 is becoming very popular as banks downsize, and it
is compatible with the AS 400 which many banks already have installed. And I
suspect that sounds cards will be important as a "chat" feature between nodes.
<g>
-JE
OS/2 has been around longer than NT, and obviously has a good core following,
but I'm still putting my $$$ on Microsatan NT. What I meant by that silly,
cryptic, "high-end" computing statement was software that relies heavily on
32bit operating environment, client-server type apps, networking apps. I'm
sure OS/2 has its good points, but when more and more apps become available for
NT I think more people will go with it. It'll take some time for that to
happen, but MS has plenty of money/time to burn.
Also, I believe there are more copies of Windows 3.1 out there than OS/2 (I
know you knew that, but I couldn't resist) <g>. And there's my point. It's a
lot easier leap from Win3.1 to Chicago or NT than to OS/2. I've considered
OS/2, but I won't do it. I'm definitely holding out for NT.
John Tissavary (LUNA cie)
John,
As I mentioned to Ana, OS/2 server's are AS 400's in many cases. The whole
corporate IBM world, is a totally different world than the one we're accustom.
Commercial Banking / Financial analysis et al will rely heavily on 32 bit apps.
Which is why Commericial banking is now moving into this domain, now that the
power and speed is there.
Somebody with more specific facts could make a strong case that Silicon
Graphics with a client/server will be the graphics environment for the future.
That's really the high-end.
And I realise Autodesk is putting their weight behind NT. But what major
hardware manufacturer is? I don't have the insight to know the reasoning, but I
suspect it is for the reason that you mentioned and that is that there is a
much broader installed Windows user base. OS/2 and NT are dividing the camps
again. Kinda like IBM, Apple and the Klones. I've heard that recently Compaq is
now almost as large as Apple. I wonder if they're putting their chips on NT? Or
are instead following IBM as they traditionally have, and are going OS/2.
Anyway, I think you get my point. Something has to drive the support of NT.
Maybe companies like Autodesk will be the fuel. Obviously if a 3DS version goes
NT, NT will be what I get. But then maybe you'll have a choice, and if so, I'll
stay will DOS. 🙂
-JE
John,
<< And I realise Autodesk is putting their weight behind NT.. >>
Now this is speculation only, outside looking in. FWIW dept.
I don't think there has been ANY formal announcement regarding
platforms priorities or preferences by Autodesk.
jonas[trying_to_keep_the_facts_straight]
Jonas,
Actually there is evidence to support the comment I made as Autodesk is
supporting ACAD r13 with NT, and ACAD is the largest selling product Autodesk
produces. No?
-JE
P.S. I had to go back through my notes to confirm that I'd read this, to be
sure I knew where I got the idea from. FWIW.
<< Actually there is evidence to support the comment I made as
Autodesk is supporting ACAD r13 with NT, and ACAD is the largest
selling product Autodesk produces. No?>>
largest selling product.. yes 1,000,000 th. copy recently. ACAD r13
with NT……… sure, it was announced that NT would be the _first_
platform it would run on. Does this imply Adesk putting it's weight
behind it? ….they chose one O/S to start with. FWIW dept.
>> Does this imply Adesk putting it's weight behind it? … <<
Really poor choice of words, I apologise.
John,
Boy take twenty some hours off the forum and look what happens. <G>
<<But what major hardware manufacturer is?>
I'm not sure how you mean by this. The hardware manufactures, to some degree,
don't need to worry about what OS is going to run on them. Admittedly, this is
too broad a statement. But one of the attraction of NT is that there is a
large degree of hardware independence in that it will run across several
platforms. When you add "Plug-and-Play" technology, this becomes even more of
a no brainer for the user. Yea!
<<And I realise Autodesk is putting their weight behind NT.>>
I hope you are right on this one. You probably have more, (anything is
more<g>), sources for inside info from Adesk, but all I have seen is the
statndard disclaimer. Do you know this for a fact?
I talked to a D/Vision user yesterday and he said that they plan to port their
professional product to NT by the end of the year. This is good news for me,
because I will be getting D/Vision in the not too distant future.
On another realted front, I asked over on the Corel forum, and they gave the
pat answer also. I thought that since they are porting maniacs, (Windows, Mac,
OS/2), that they would be one of the first, but I guess not.
Microsoft, is certainly a disappointment. I really would like to see an NT
version of office 4.0, but get the impression that it is not a big priority
right now. You would think they would jump all over the opportunity to be the
first with basic apps for their new baby.
As I said before, right now it is wait and see, but NT is not causing any
problems and possibly less then windows, so I'll keep at it.
Fred
Fred,
<< <<And I realise Autodesk is putting their weight behind NT.>>
I hope you are right on this one. You probably have more, (anything is
more<g>), sources for inside info from Adesk, but all I have seen is the
statndard disclaimer. Do you know this for a fact? >>
I don' thin' so…
see my previous responce to John on this same thread,,
jonas[adesk]
Jonas,
How did I know this would be your response? <G>
Do they send you to school to learn this response? :-}
Fred
Fred,
>> Take twenty some hours off… and look what happens. <<
Never a dull moment. I really didn't expect to get into this stuff either. I
seem to be a magnet for it. <G>
I agree that hardware manufactures, generally don't have to worry about what OS
system is going to run on them but, some OS system needs to be installed on
them. Will Compaq continue to install DOS or Windows or will they decide to go
OS/2 or NT. Maybe this won't be as big a factor as I think, but I think it will
have an impact, in that if they bundle NT with their system, people will use
it. And if they bundle OS2 people will use it, in this regard the hardware
people may or can have a significant impact on the user base. IBM will continue
to bundle OS2, which will help build its user base. Many people will have to go
out and buy NT. IBM has been smart and is selling an OS/2 for Windows
by-passing the licensing agreement that they once paid to Microsoft to include
Windows. Egghead software, which is my barometer of software for the masses, is
selling OS/2 for Windows fairly briskley including a growing collection of OS/2
apps. So anyway, my speculation is that if someone like Compaq gets out front
and says we're supporting NT, that will be a big boost for developers as
they'll see a built in market. My main point being what's going to drive
development for the NT environment. Maybe the fact that MS is doing it is
enough. But we're really just now seeing the major transferrence of
applications from the DOS environment to the Windows environment, ie more apps
are coming out for Windows than DOS. What's going to push it into NT as opposed
to OS/2? I really have no idea except maybe the hardware manufactures bundleing
it with their platforms.
-JE
John,
<<some OS system needs to be installed on them. Will Compaq continue to install
DOS or Windows or will they decide to go OS/2 or NT.>>
I see where your coming from, but I don't think NT will ever be the OS loaded
on systems from the OEMs. NT is being positioned more as an enterprise system
and as such has little appeal to the masses buying a single computer for home
or office use. I have to agree with John T., Chicago is more of the rival for
OS/2 in the bundling market.
I stopped in the local CompUSA store last week and was not surprised to see
that OS/2 still has 1/3 of a row for the apps they carry, where as DOS has two
rows and Windows has four and 2/3's. Now the retailers I have done work for
always use self space as the indication of popularity and sells, so from that
stand point windows is much more entrenched than OS/2. What does that prove?
Well I think NT will to some degree ride on the coat tails of Windows. The UI
is the same and I would think that the port would be less painful.
But as I said, NT is not for the lite of heart. Nt is too expensive in cost
and HD real estate, it has far more security features then any individual would
need, or for that matter any small business. After all, I have to log on to my
computer every morning. Feels alot like UNIX in that respect. So I don't
think NT will ever have the popularity of Windows, but will it have the
popularity of UNIX? I think this is the war MS would like to win. OS/2 has had
several years advance start and has not done very well, so we will have to wait
and see how NT does.
Fred
Fred,
All good points, I guess only time will tell.
-JE
I think you're right on the mark with MS's desire to compete more on
the UNIX front than the personal computer front. NT is a
multi-platorm, protable OS, and will not appeal to most casual
computer users. I have a feeling, if MS pushes NT's development in
the right direction, that it'll beat OS/2 in heavy duty
applications. If 3DS ran under NT I'd make the switch real soon.
John,
<<as I've heard there's a learning curve to it as well.>>
I'm not sure there is anymore of a learning curve for NT then there is for
Windows. In fact MS has been taking it on the chin for using the same UI. I'm
torn on this issue.
Fred
Fred,
>>I'm not sure there is anymore of a learning curve fot NT then there is for
Windows. <<
I don't doubt that that is true. But if one is going to have to learn a new
environment be it OS/2 or NT, one will look at the available apps and decide
which direction things are going in. If there are more apps for OS/2 than many
people will choose to go that route as a result. But at best this is all
speculation, and buying trends since CP/M. With regard to ADESK and NT, read
Jonas remarks. Apparently, its all my intuition. <g> Gets me into more trouble
than you can imagine. 🙂
-JE