#Video Toaster (again)
16 messages in this thread
[CONTINUED]
(sorry for the jump in Sections here. I'm still trying to figure out CS
Information Manager.)
Anyway, This all has to do with the toaster because, when it comes
out, we supposedly have the money ready and waiting for it. And, if all
our upgrades solve our errors, I will try to get the Amiga hooked up to our
good stuff. (The VHS class here barely understands CHaracter
generation–how can they deal with ray tracing?).
My only problem is I don't know what the toaster will *DO*. I've
heard about it. I've seen spec sheets. But no one has yet explained to me
what its actual function is to be. A Gen Lock? A Frame Store? An internal
or Downstream keyer? A SEG? I don't know. I've steeped myself in so much
Amigaspeak in the last month I think I'm suffering from Amiga overload.
So anyway, I hope this answers your question <and how!>. I don't
mean to dump all this on you, but I'm kinda lost in the Amiga world, but
I'm beginning to like it.
Let me know if you have any advice.
-SJK
Steve,
Pardon me for jumping in, but I saw the Toaster demo'ed at the World of
Amiga show in NY, so I can give you some idea of what it's supposed to be
all about.
First of all it's a four-input SEG (all composite, unfortunately, no
S-video). It's a dual frame store. (so that makes the SEG six inputs, two
of which are freeze frames). The frame store can store and retrieve
freezes from your hard disk.
It's a single-channel DVE with some attractive features like digital
trails. One limitation to note here is that although the moving effects
look nice, it does its image compression by trimming pixels out of the
image. So you couldn't use it to create an over-the-shoulder box for a
newscast, as the image would look like he ** …..
But flips an tumbles on and offscreen are nicely executed, and in that
respect the Toaster really shines.
It's also a character generator, supposedly with full 24-bit resolution.
They supply fonts and a utility that lets you make your own.
Finally, all of what it can do is software-based, since essentially the
board provides the capability, on a pixel-by-pixel basis, to determine
which of the four inputs appears where onscreen. So new software will mean
new capabilities.
Hope this gives you some of the answers you were looking for…
Pete
I'm using a Super Gen (SG-10) from Progressive Image Technologies.
Am I correct in assuming that since the Toaster is a SEG and all that it
will gen lock the Amiga and therefore I can throw my Super Gen away?
BTW, I'm sure glad you guys are around. I'm so relieved to have a resource
of which I can ask stupid questions instead of poring over the
documentation to find an answer that doesn't exist.
Steven –
Don't throw the SuperGen away if the equipment you are working with is
recent consumer-level stuff (camcorders, VCRs, etc.). According to Amazing
and a couple of other sources (including NewTek's online rep) you need
equipment with either time-base correctors (for VCRs) or a camera with
external synch. These features are not generally available on recent
consumer-level equipment, though the word is that some new machines (in the
$1000-$3000 range) are due which have these features.
Me, I'm buying a SuperGen, Frame Grabber, and whatever DVE software
looks good at the time. These all work with equipment I already own.
Harry
Harry,
Get the SuperGen 2000S. And keep your eyes out for some fancy additional
hardware for it that will knock your sox off (and will lock to
nonsynchronous sources…)
Pete
Does the Super Gen 2000S have S-video outputs? Does it look good?
And could you be more specific about that software?
The 2000S does indeed have S-video outputs. In addition, it is one of the
few units on the market that maintain signal separation throughout the
overlay process. Several other genlocks on the market are equipped with
S-video in and out ports but internally combine the signals, perform the
overlay in composite, then split them again. Which of course virtually
does away (what do I mean, 'virtually'?? It TOTALLY does away…) with the
advantages of S-video in the first place. The 2000S performs all of its
keying operations in Y/C, ensuring an exceptionally sharp, clean key. Yes,
it looks very good indeed. And no, I don't work for the manufacturer!!
And finally, no, I can't be more specific about things to come. Well, not
REAL specific. Except that part of the 2000S design includes an expansion
port for additional hardware to accept live or taped nonsynchronous (read:
no TBS's) inputs for realtime digital manipulation and DVE effects in
either composite or Y/C.
Incidentally, I freelance directed a remote production for a local cable
company last night involving their 4-camera production truck, which is
equipped with an ancient Chyron VP-1. The production, a live telecast of a
major hearing which was live on the air for seven and a half hours (yawn!),
required frequent graphics both as lower thirds to identify speakers and
the usual "LIVE" graphic telling channel-turners what they're watching. I
swapped the VP1 for my 2000S-equipped Amiga without telling the station
staff & have spent the day enjoying the effect. I keep fielding questions
about where I came up with a DVE for the truck! And at least one person
from a local production house who saw part of the program thought it was
done independently by a large facility with high-end equipment.
Pete
Pete,
<chuckle>
Congratulations on your "coup" with the "DVE". I LIVE for stories like
that!
<giggle>
Karl
Thanks, Karl. I got a REAL kick out of that one! If you've ever used the
VP-1, you can imagine the chaos at master control as they watched the
opening graphic spin in. The package I used was ProVideo Post. I saw it
demo'ed by Orin Sands at AmiExpo in DC and grabbed one as soon as they
shipped. Have you seen it yet? Their DVE stuff is amazing, even for the
Amiga. I'm talking about being able to flip and rotate a full hi-res
overscan screen with no jitter at all.
Pete
Groovy!
Tee, hee. I love those stories! <pulling off the the black canvas to
reveal….an Amiga!> Ta-dahhh! — Art
Pete –
I've been looking at the 2000S, but I'm not sure if my budget will
handle it. Do you have any hints about the "fancy additional hardware" that
might change my mind? (Food? Who needs it? 8^) ).
Harry
Harry,
Check out my message #33421 to Steve Koster on this subject. More
information would have to come from Progressive Image Technology.
I was disappointed about two things in the Toaster design. One is the
absence of S-video signals; since SVHS and ED Beta are very common formats
in the area NewTek is trying to cater to, that seems a serious omission.
Also the requirement for all synchronous signals is impractical unless you
want to use the thing in a "live" environment or you own a production
company with TBC-equipped VTR's. So even if I was planning on getting a
Toaster I'd be waiting for the Y/C version, which presumably they'll get
pressured into offering.
But I think the P/I/T product will beat a Y/C Toaster to market, and with
its ability to accept two nonsynchronous sources and manipulate them in
real time it may offer more to the small independent producer who can't
replace his playback decks or go out and buy TBC's.
Pete
Don't worry. I have no real intentions of throwing out my Super Gen.
But doesn't the Toaster gen lock the Amiga to an incoming video signal? If
it does, then it should be easy to integrate it into a cuts only editor. If
not, well…..that would be bad.
Not to fear, however. The system on which I hope to use the Amiga is
all industrial quality (i.e. two TBCs, four on-line VTRs, everything
gen-locked to a single source). If the Amiga doesn't gen-lock to my system,
I can gen-lock my system to the Amiga. But I would think an item as
bally-hooed as the Toaster would do a simple thing like gen-lock. Even my
SUper Gen does that.
Steven –
As far as I know, the Toaster does indeed genlock, as well as frame-grab
and a bunch of other stuff. But its inability to work with non-professional
equipment (ignoring for the moment the rumored high-end consumer stuff
supposedly being released) puts it off my list. My personal opinion, of
course. Your mileage may vary …
Harry
Steve,
I spoke directly with the NewTek folks about this. From what I can gather,
the Toaster is MUCH more sensitive to timebase error than a genlock,
possibly because it is processing the incoming video as data rather than
just syncing up to it and overlaying graphics. Thus, inputs must be either
directly from cameras or TBC's; no uncorrected hetrodyne VTR inputs. Also,
the first input is the "master" to which the others must be genlocked and
timed.
Pete