CIM Discussion
29 messages in this thread
As the saying goes, I digress…
Here are my thoughts and reflections on the recent topic of CIM, and CIM
for the Amiga, etc.
I'd like to start by saying that I think a few of my comments about CIM,
and it's design were based on very little knowledge of just what the CIM
philosophy was all about. In the future, I'll try and stay away from topic
that I haven't researched fully before passing comments that don't hold a
great deal of fact.
Put simply, after reviewing CIM and it's design and function, I have found
it to be an incredible and snappy front end to CIS. It's obvious to me that
CIS's intention with CIM was to increase the ease of use and functionality
of CompuServe to it's users, and any comments I made in the past which may
have appeared to contravene this philosophy should be ignored. I now
realize that the entire CIM project is something that CompuServe has thing
that CompuServe has invested a great deal of resource into, solely for the
benefit of it's customers, and for this they deserve to be applauded.
What's more, after using CIM for the Mac, I can see quite easily that it is
a program that would be a highly desired tool for anyone using CompuServe
who desires an easy to use and powerful interface to the service. I for
one, would love to see an Amiga CIM. I would use such a product without
hesitation.
{I hope that people will encourage CompuServe to develop a version of CIM
for the Amiga so that Amiga users can also enjoy the benefits of what the
HMI structure offer the user.
I have removed a few previous messages posted by myself which contained
inaccuracies about CIM and CompuServe's intentions with CIM, since it would
be very counterproductive to keep that sort of misinformation online.
I apologize if any of these inaccuracies have caused any problems for
anyone on the service, and hope that my thoughts on the subject are now
clear to all involved in the discussion.
Thanks!
Jim
Don't feel bad about shooting your mouth off… that's not an uncommon
occurence on CIS, it's part of what makes it great. 🙂
As for CIM, maybe it's time to organize an official assault. Would it help
to make a concerted effort of requests to the powers that be?
I tried the Mac version of CIM – once or twice. I found it a bit
inconvenient to use, actually. You can't beat user-controlled action, but
I'd love to have a background task running a download, too.
John…
I think what makes CIM so special is that it offers quick and easy access
to the wide and varied choices of forums. Once that is done, you can build
an 'environment' that allows you to customize your CompuServe sessions.
I think that sending feedback and letting CIS know that you'd like to see
an Amiga CIM would be a good idea, as someone else pointed out. I know that
I'd use it, I too would like to have the ability to conference and download
simultaneously.
Jim
Well, the people who _read_ the feedback seem to like the Idea of an Amiga
CIM. I know we have a "few" developers reading this thread, if a developer
would be so kind as to get the "ball" back into CI$'s "court," all of us
would be eternally thankful.
Personally, I'd love to have CIM capability on my A3000 without buying a
bridgecard. I _already_ have IBM CIM and love using it at work, except
that I can't get any "work" done while I wait for the dern computer to do
its "thing." (Can't load Turbo Pascal while CIM's running, Large D/L's are
still "coffee break" time even @ 9600bps…)
brian
If you have any clues to a method which will get CIS to _recognize_ that
the ball is in their court, I'll be happy to deliver it
Well, messages from developers willing to develop such a product will be
willingly acceptd by the CI$ FEEDBACK people. Whether they _do_ anything
with the messages is another matter…..
Brian
Jim,
I dutifully sent a rather lengthy request to FEEDBACK yesterday almost
yelling for Amiga CIM development. I'd like to see everyone on line with
any interest in this at all to do the same, but perhaps you'd help us out
by letting us know what the most persuasive, informed and pertinent
comments to include in a request to the FEEDBACK folks.
.. Tim Trompeter…
Tim…
I think a genuine account of why you'd like to see CIM would be most
useful, offering some insight as to how CIM might help you. Mentioning that
you know of others using CIM on other platforms who are impressed with the
software couldn't hurt either. That was my main motivation for trying it in
Mac format in the first place, and I was certainly very impressed!
Just let 'em know you want it, and why! We'll keep our fingers crossed!
Jim
Heck, I regularly _use_ CIM on an IBM platform! So shoot me, I _work_ on
PC's — I _relax_ on an Amiga.
Anyway, I gently informed the FEEDBACK people that as an IBM CIM user I
would appreciate, use, and of course buy an Amiga CIM…
Brian.
Tim-
> sent a rather lengthy request to FEEDBACK yesterday almost yelling for
Amiga
> CIM development.
Why don't you post the request you wrote, so that others may use it?
Len Lekx
[73300,723]
"Form letters" aren't nearly as likely to be taken seriously as are
originals.
Especially when the transactions are already completely electronic…
I stuffed a message in the MCIMSUP forum suggestions section and
got a response that they were NOT considering transporting CIM but were
considering an HMI for the Amiga. HOWEVER, that is more encouraging in
many ways than a CIM port would be. CIM is not really designed for a true
multi-tasking machine and a pure CIM port would probably not be
particularly nice. However, WAPP! already exists and adding an HMI
interface might be helpful.
Max…
Good points, although CIM unto itself is pretty impressive, so I don't feel
a straight port of CIM to the Amiga would be a bad thing at all. I don't
know how much the multitasking of the Amiga would come into play anyways,
since you are using one modem, and one line. The multitasking element of
being online and in two places at once would likely have to be supported at
the HMI library level before it can be implemented in the software itself.
Then, if that's the case, all versions of CIM could 'multitask' while on
CompuServe, regardless of platform.
It's no secret than just about any platform can perform multitasking at the
communications level, especially if it's just a matter of keeping track of
communications packets and sorting them (one packet for a downloaded file,
the next packet for a COnference line, etc)
Jim
Jim,
I also did the comment to Feedback routine about the HMI library; I was
told that CIS has no plans to come out with any software for the Amiga at
this time. The rationale? Because most of their customers are PC and Mac
users. This is pretty retarded, in my opinion.
First of all: the reason why most of their customers are PC and Mac
users is because they are supported with custom software. How many Windows
users are there? Better question – how many NeXT users are there? Sun?
Hey…I think that there's a correlation here…
Second: How many professional Amiga users are out there, that would
love to have the files and support from other CIS users? In fact, since
Amiga users tend to be more isolated…how many "Toaster Workstation"
owners are out there that would love some help, some nice 3-D objects,
etc…IF ONLY THEY HAD SOME EASY TO USE SOFTWARE!!! I wonder how many
folks give up CIS before they learn of Whap!, or simply just give up…
I told this CIS flack (Jerry Mypunga) that his rationale was faulty, and
to get back to me when he had some real reasons…perhaps they simply don't
care about the needs of a segment of their customers. Sounds like it to
me.
Perhaps its time to organize some kind of protest….
Jonathan
– via Whap!
I'm sure the representative meant that most CIS users have PCs or Macs, not
the obvious tautology that most HMI users have PCs or Macs. I'm sure it's
a matter of dollars. They look at the time and effort they invested in
making the PC and Mac versions, and see a very large return for the effort.
They look at the price they'd need to pay to have someone work on an Amiga
version, or even just the cost of supporting a third platform from a
technical support and (one) developer standpoint, and they don't see as
great a return. I'd bet it would be profitable, but maybe the numbers
don't excite them.
John,
It's my understanding that the HMI library is written in C (tho probably
NOT ANSI…they ain't that smart), and that it could be simply moved to the
Amiga with practically no effort. The shame is…CIS doesn't have any
Amiga people…and apparently doesn't want to have any. I'm _still_
waiting for my (voice) call from some clown on that project (HMI).
Particularly easy from the Mac version, I suspect… Maybe you aren't
calling enough. 🙂
Vic,
The HMI library is written in ANSI C. Things are moving along on a
possible release of the Amiga version in the near future.
-sja
Steve,
Ok, I'll quit my griping. BTW, is 'near future' any closer than RSN?
How about RRSN?? <smmiiille>
Hmmm, well, in this case, define "near future" to mean before the end of
'92.
>>> "Things are moving along on a possible release of the Amiga version in
the near future." <<<
That's good news Steve!
I hope that everyone here will dorp a short note to FEEDBACK, politely
requesting an Amiga version of Compuserve Information Manager.
Michael
….from the north coast (go Cavs!)
John–
I still stand by my argument. Before HMI, I bet that CIS was a computer
melting pot. However, by offering CMI, CIS was able to attract MacHeads
(especially MacHeads…not a very technical bunch, to some degree). Now,
they tell me, they will do the same for Windows users.
Jonathan
– via Whap!
Heaven forbid we should ever break away from ASCII. Networking protocols
have been around for years and years, and personal computers have had the
horsepower to handle them for (arguably) five years, and even a 2400 baud
modem is fast enough to give the throughput to make it relatively
transparent, and the 9600 and greater modems make ASCII quite lame. I've
tried the Mac CIS software and after trying it a few times, I didn't want
to use it. Although I think I get around faster on this ASCII interface, I
can certainly imagine a command-line and GUI-based, packeted,
interruptable, customizable interface to major networks. Please, oh God of
Telecom, deliver it to me someday.
I'd also like a way to cross-index and file all the megabytes of online
transcripts I keep. Almost every byte online gets edited a bit, then filed
away on floppies.
John,
All of those things sound really terrific…somehow, I don't think that
we'll see them soon.
Wouldn't it be great if there was something like the WELL, but for Amiga
users? The installed base is large enough to support something like that,
but small enough so that users would be attracted to it for support
needs…yeah, I like this idea…
Jonathan
No, I don't think an Amiga-specific network would be a good idea. The size
of the market could not support it. The number of new users isn't enough
to keep it alive. A place like Compuserve, and these forums, benefits
greatly from having PC and Mac users around. Here's a simple test to
conduct: ask Amiga Forum users if they visit any other forums on
Compuserve, and why.
Jonathan…
CIS most likely has a much better handle on the feasability of doing CIM
than we do, based on the numbers of Amiga users that are registered as such
on the service, in comparison to Mac and PC users. I have no idea what the
numbers actually are.
I'm sure that CIS's reasoning is sincere, they wouldn't intentionally want
to lead us astray if there are indeed enough of us to make the project
worth doing. Who knows what will happen over the next little while. Your
points about greater support creating a more permanent and committed base
of users are good, no doubt.
I can't agree that CIS doesn't care about the needs of a segment of their
customers. We have four forums here dedicated to Amiga computers, we have a
file finder and a good chunk of CIS disk space. Sure, we pay for it, but
it's one of the best networks around for Amiga support, and we all play a
big part in making that happen. Without CIS, we'd have a hard time getting
together in this fashion.
Don't give up hope. I'm confident that if CIS gets enough feedback that
would entice them to do, at the very least, the HMI library for the Amiga,
that would lay the cornerstone for an Amiga CIM, or something like it. I'm
hoping that people are writing constructive feedback based on logical
arguments and opposed to the 'We're the poor underrecognized Amigans'
argument. That rarely gets any positive attention.
Jim
Jim,
One can only hope…
Jonathan
– via Whap!