CompuServe Thread

Imagine/DCTV-Good?

34 messages in this thread
#39208From: Jonathan SchmidtMay 11, 1992 11:56 PM
Hi, I am being talked into Imagine by my local dealer. I am new to 3D and although I have worked with Sculpt-A 4D before, I found it very difficult to use. I think that the 3 seperate windows threw me a curve. I know that Imagine works this way and that is why I am a little nervous about spending $300 on it. I am kind of leaning toward Caligari 2 because it seems much more user friendly. Can you talk me into Imagine some more and explain how easy it is to use and calm my nerves? I am also going to be using DCTV with this (whichever) program and I have 5 megs of RAM. Although I only am running at 14Mhz, speed is not important for now anyway. I work and go to school. I'm just trying to get my feet wet without drowning. Any help from you guys at Impulse? Also, I understand that JPEG is a very good compression format for graphics. Does Imagine 2.0 support this and if it does, do you know if DCTV does too? I am buying everything at once so I will certainly be overwhelmed at first but I think I am smart enough to be able to sort through it all. It just may take a while… 🙂 Thanks for any assistance you can provide! Jon
#39229From: R.SATOHMay 12, 1992 7:19 PM
Jonathan, DCTV is definitely a good start. You can do pretty neat stuff including nice painting & some animation. As for Jpeg, both Imagine & DCTV does not support it for now. You have to get a public domain converter or buy commercial product like Image Master & Art Department Pro. <-You can get information on both product here on CIS. 3D software is definitely a hard decision. I use Imagine & Real 3D for myself. Not many 3D softwares support method other than TRI-View (Caligari2 & Draw-4DPro are NONTRIVIEW), so you'll have to get use to it eventually. The strongest point of Imagine is its flexibility in all areas such as Object making, Cycle editting, and several rendering method and so on. Un-fortunately documentation on the manual is pretty bad, but this can certainly overcomed by vast majority of Imagine user's help here on CIS or go buy 'Understanding Imagine' by Steve Worley. But there is still a tough learning curve! As for Caligari2, it seem to be much easier and intuitive than any other package (except for LightWave). Both weak and strong point of Caligari2 is that its not a Raytracer. You can render an image pretty quick, but you will not get the same looks as other Ray Tracing package does. As a results, Caligari2 gives out a distinctive 'Computer image' that one may like or dislike. I hope this can be your help. – THANX R.SATOH ->via Whap!
#39231From: Jonathan SchmidtMay 12, 1992 7:48 PM
Yeah, you certainly helped out. I noticed that there are a lot of JPEG pix in the forums. I have ADPro (the first version) and altough I haven't checked, I think that only ADPro 2 supports JPEG. I don't have another $170 to buy the latest version. I'm pretty tapped out after all this other stuff I'm buying soon. You mentioned a program in the libraries to transfer to a format that can be read by CDTV? Can you tell me what it's called. I wasn't able to find one. Also, are there other types of compression that DCTV supports? I don't want to be taking up a full meg on my hard drive just for one picture. Although I have a 120 meg drive, it isn't bottomless. I would like to be able to store the pics on a floppy if possible. Any suggestions there? Do you like DCTV? What do you do with it all? I will certainly take a look at the book for Imagine as it will probably help a lot also. Any other information or suggestions you could give would be appreciated! Thanks, Jon
#39238From: R.SATOHMay 12, 1992 10:14 PM
Image Master from Black Belt Systems and Art Department Pro are the two commercial product that supports JPEG format. Both of the program also supports DCTV file (but you cannot load DCTV image in Art Department Pro). They are both very valuable and very essential in graphics environment, so definitely get it when you can afford it. For now, DCTV file format is small so you'll probably do just fine by just archiving it as DCTV file. One problem with JPEG and DCTV(especially) is, they are both Lossy format, it does not retain all the information that original image should have. So for the space you save, image quality is sacrificed. Actually, you should never use DCTV file for your master piece, if its important. You can get public domain JPEG<->IFF24 converter on CIS, I think its named AUGJPEG.lzh or OCTJPEG.lzh. And for IFF24->DCTV conversion, shareware utility name ADAM or REND24 will do a good job in batch conversion. – THANX R.SATOH ->via Whap!
#39239From: Jonathan SchmidtMay 12, 1992 10:18 PM
Thanks for the help! Jon
#39252From: Peter GreciMay 13, 1992 2:32 AM
I use DCTV alot mate and it is a GREAT LOW End Full Color Device I'm VERY happy with DCTV and use it's Digitizing features alot for Special FX on Pictures of People that I take with a Canon Xapshot Still Video Camera.I love Imagines Direct to DCTV rendering as well MIDGARD GRAPHICS, CREATORS OF QUALITY ANIMATION.
#39254From: Jonathan SchmidtMay 13, 1992 7:16 AM
Yep, I think it looks good. Does it use the 500 for power? Or, does it have its own power supply?
#39264From: Peter GreciMay 13, 1992 12:58 PM
DCTV Draws power from the 500 but since I have a Bodega Bay that is NO problem since the B Bay has a BIG power supply
#39272From: Jonathan SchmidtMay 13, 1992 1:38 PM
OUCH! I should probably get a BIG FOOT!
#39336From: Peter GreciMay 14, 1992 12:56 PM
ya might wanna look into that new Hi-Q Tower for the,it supposedly adds a CPU and Video Slot so ya can use ANY card for a 2000 So far it is still Vaporware tho
#39346From: Jonathan SchmidtMay 14, 1992 4:42 PM
Okay, I'll look into that!
#39251From: Peter GreciMay 13, 1992 2:30 AM
if yer looking for EASY Imagine will be a Nightmare for you,Caligari I don;t recommend simply because the modelor is TERRIBLE in my opinion DCTV somewhat supports JPEG with a nice little pd prg JPEG2DCTV but is 1 way only.Imagine has some of the BEST output available currently IMHO the Learning Curve is a bit steep for Imagine but the Possibilities Boggle The Mind.Ya might wanna get Steve Worleys Book Understanding Imagine 2.0 BEFORE deciding on a Raytrace pr,ya might also wanna try the PD DKB Trace to get yer feet wet first as well MIDGARD GRAPHICS, CREATORS OF QUALITY ANIMATION.
#39253From: Jonathan SchmidtMay 13, 1992 7:14 AM
Well, I have used Sculpt a fair amount. And, after hearing from everyone here, I will definately stick it out with Imagine. I will surely get that book and I think there are videos out, too! Thanks! Jon
#39265From: Peter GreciMay 13, 1992 12:59 PM
Yes there are quite a few Videos for Imagine,I believe Creative Computers included 1 with the purchase of Imagine as well
#39273From: Jonathan SchmidtMay 13, 1992 1:39 PM
Yeah, my local dealer has the same video. Hopefully, that will shed some light.
#39467From: Charles BlaquiereMay 17, 1992 12:38 AM
Jon, WARNING. I know of two Imagine videos on the market. One is by Centaur and is strictly an introductory how-to for pirates who don't have the manual. You'll outgrow that tape faster than you can rewind it, especially if you have Steve Worley's book. I got rid of that video as soon as I found someone who'd buy it from me. The second video was created by Rick Rodriguez for Impulse, and is titled "Imagine: the possibilities". It's a fast-moving assemblage of hints, tips, animated and still images, designes to help the user who has learned Imagine's basic operation. Some basic objects are created in a jiffy, showing some nifty modeler shortcuts. This video stresses smart _usage_ of the program's many functions. It's exactly what most people want from a tutorial: not a rehash of WHAT functions are available, but HOW to use them. I strongly recommend it. Blaq!
#39487From: Jonathan SchmidtMay 17, 1992 12:09 PM
Thanks! I'll look into that video.
#39490From: randy auschratMay 17, 1992 1:27 PM
This message is in reguards to Imagine: The possiblities. Is that tape for Imagine 2.0? Short but to the point. Randy.
#39510From: Charles BlaquiereMay 17, 1992 7:57 PM
Randy, the tape is for Imagine 1.1, so no 2.0-specific features are covered. It remains, however, an enjoyable tape to watch and learn from. Charles -via Fingers!
#39546From: randy auschratMay 18, 1992 3:40 PM
Well, I need all the help I can get. I'll definately have to have a look at it. Thanks…. Later. Randy.
#39306From: Paul ToalMay 13, 1992 10:19 PM
Lightwave is the prefered tool of choice for me, but it's got one heck of a dongle. –Paul Whappin' from the Wine Country
#39337From: Peter GreciMay 14, 1992 12:57 PM
Yup one Heck of an EXPENSIVE Dongle,I plan to eventually get a toaster just for Lightwave but for now Imagine is fine for me
#39586From: Bil SwartzMay 19, 1992 1:48 PM
I recently rendered a few pix with I2 for the gang down at our local cable access station to use and figgered we get the best display out of their DCTV devices, so I rendered to 24 bit ILBM and loaded it into DCTV via the digitize/ process facility. I was rather disappointed by the overall bluriness and lack of vibrance of the image when compared to rgb display. Is there anyway to better this? Should I have rendered directly to DCTV format (would it make a difference)? Any tips you could share would be appreciated as I was planning to buy a DCTV myself till I saw the output there!
#39600From: Peter GreciMay 19, 1992 10:54 PM
Well mae RGB will ALWAYSbe MUCH sharper than a composite signal,no way around that fact that I know of.Did you try using another prg for viewing? Only thing I can say is if yer NOT satisfied with DCTV output I recommend the Firecracker 24 from Impulse or the Rambrandt once it comes out.Remember the old saying about NTSC-Never the Same Color Twice a NTSC signal CAN NOT Match a RGB for color or Sharpness due to NTSC's limitations which ARE NOT imposed on many newer 24 bit color Boards But if yer Going to Video Eventually the point is not so important anymore IMHO DCTV is by no means THE BEST ya can get but is a good inexpensive Psuedo 24 bit frame buffer which acheives Excellent results MIDGARD GRAPHICS, CREATORS OF QUALITY ANIMATION.
#39627From: Bil SwartzMay 20, 1992 12:31 PM
Oh I am aware of the NTSC trials and tribulations, just was disappointed at how much detail was lost. I didn't know if loading in and converting a iff24 would be any different from rendering direct to DCTV format but I would think not. Yes, getting to video is ultimately desirable, but I need the crispness we see on some of these professional tape releases. Any ideas?
#39659From: Peter GreciMay 21, 1992 2:28 AM
Try rendering as I mentioned the pics ya got may have been Jpegged originally I'm pretty Happy with DCTV myself If You aren't I suggest look at Firecracker 24 or a Toaster for 24 bit Frame output
#39601From: Peter GreciMay 19, 1992 10:57 PM
BTW what is I2??????If it's Imagemaster from Black Belt Systems I've heard complaints from a few of my buddies that it Muddies up pictures a bit.since I have NEVER used this prg I'm simply passing on what I've been told Try to get a hold oa Regular 24 bit Pic off this BBs or generate one with yer Fave 3D software for a better idea of what can be acheived
#39628From: Bil SwartzMay 20, 1992 12:32 PM
Perter- I2=Imagine 2.0 in my limited online vocabulary. Sorry for any cornfusion!
#39660From: Peter GreciMay 21, 1992 2:31 AM
okey Dokey Mate I2=Imagine 2.0 didn't know that one,I use Imagine 2.0 and haven't had problems with DCTV Fuzziness except when I use Objects my Buddy Earl Creates on his Atari ST and I convert to Imagine use as he uses Saturated Colors too much and that mbe my fuzzy Factor I dunno mate other than go RGB and use a Film Recorder like Polaroid Ci-5000 with 35 mm Pin Registered Motion Picture Filmback for top Quality output MIDGARD GRAPHICS, CREATORS OF QUALITY ANIMATION.
#39767From: Karl SparklinMay 24, 1992 10:27 AM
Peter, A quibble: I enjoy reading your messages because of the experience you have with all that hardware you own, and expertise with Imagine and other software. But often, I'm not sure what you're trying to say since you use little or no punctuation. Please think about throwing a period in once in awhile to make sure we understand you. Thanks, Karl – via Whap!
#39784From: Peter GreciMay 25, 1992 12:06 AM
Ahoy Karl.I hate Periods and punctuation in Genereal.Just as a matter of Principle,Sorry if it makes my Msgs a bit hard to follow.It is a BIG problem of mine as I tend to hit an idea and create 1 looooooong Run on Sentence.Are you a English Teacher by any Chance??????? Later Dude and I'll try to curb my bad habits
#39795From: Karl SparklinMay 25, 1992 9:11 AM
<chuckle> No, not an English teacher. Just someone who is desperate to pick up all the good information on Imagine he can! I've been playing around with Cycleman recently, as well as this new Lissa program. Oh, to have a job where I could Imagine 10 hours a day; maybe I'd learn it all then! Karl – via Whap!
#39466From: Charles BlaquiereMay 17, 1992 12:38 AM
Jon, These days, there is no excuse for discounting Imagine based on its steep learning curve. Not when you have Steve Worley's "Understanding Imagine 2.0" book ($20 from Impulse), Louis Markoya's "Map Master" and "Texture Master" ($70 for both, from Impulse) and even Rick Rodriguez' "Introduction to Imagine" videotape (watched it again today — such a pleasure) Yes, in the old days, Imagine was a problematic proposition. But from what I hear, Caligari has severe limitations that outweigh its ease of use. And I honestly believe anyone can work with Imagine after reading Steve's book. It's astoundingly clear and complete. Blaq!
#39486From: Jonathan SchmidtMay 17, 1992 12:08 PM
Thanks! I am waiting for my local dealer to get it in. They should have it pretty soon. I know all that you said is true. That's why I got Imagine instead of Caligari. Thanks