CompuServe Thread

Ppage outdents be hanged

15 messages in this thread
#83600From: Jim VentolaJan 2, 1993 9:05 PM
I am having a major problem with the output of hanging paragraphs in Ppage. What I want is something with, say, a numeral and some text with the text lined up with itself. I have defined a paragraph tag to do this. But when my partner prints out the postscript from his Mac, he invariably finds that the text is not quite lined up. You need to use kerning to make the first letter of the text flush with the following lines. What I want: 1. text text text What I get: 1. text text text or some such. The first "text" is almost never quite right. Yet I am using the exact same number of spaces in the Article Editor and, of course, the same tag. What determines the microjustification in such cases? Is there a way to avoid fixing all this by hand? Thanks Ooops, formatting troubles above. In example 1, the "1. text" should be above the other lines. And in example 2, the amount of nonjustification is usually less than a whole letter—which is why I have to kern.
#83628From: Christopher TolmieJan 2, 1993 11:43 PM
Jim, Hanging indents can be an frustrating experience at first. I have found that using a TAB instead of a [space] makes all the difference in getting things lined up. Use a TAB to position the 1. then a second TAB between it and the text. [TAB]1.[TAB]text of the paragraph. The paragraph TAG I used before this reply to refresh things went like this. Margins: From Box unchecked for this one, and I set a right margin of .5 to make paragraph brought in tight in center of full page box which had a 1" border all around it. I had Hanging bulleted and .75 set in box to right of it. The Tabs: box was unchecked, and the TAB settings I used for test were 1. 0.50, 2. 0.75. The rest I left alone, since I only needed the two TABS. I then imported some text, NEWLOREM.TXT, into the page and set about hanging the indents on each paragraph. I set all tags at one time, went in to first line TAB over once typed 1.[TAB] and the paragraph body text all adjusted for me. I did each paragraph this way and it all lined up. The trick it seems is adjusting the TABS and staying away from using the space bar. Hope this helps some, Chris
#83689From: JAN SIMONJan 3, 1993 1:34 PM
Chris, Right on about using TABs, not character spaces for lining up columns, etc. Now wouldn't it be nice if PPage had Left, Right, Center and Decimal (or any character) tab algnment? In your example of [TAB]1.[TAB]text… If the first tab was right justified, you could number 1., 10., or more digits and sill have them all align. ie: 1. 10. etc. I like that and have needed that, but have no work around for it. Remember, the Amiga is not a typewriter! (My apologies to Robin Williams %-) ) Jan
#83709From: Christopher TolmieJan 3, 1993 4:00 PM
Jan, Yeah, and yes. It would be wonderful to have the TAB on left, right, center and decimal (or any character) tab alignment, like QuarkXpress, and Pagemaker. How about the TAB setting box that opens up? That is handy too! For the 1., 10., and right justify desired need, well how about adding a third tab and use the second TAB to move the single digit numbers over a bit to align with the period of the double-digit number? Using picas it is about 0.60 of one pica so the TABS would be 3.0 and 3.60 and 4.80 , or 0.50, 0.5833, and 0.7778, if the hanging was set to 0.7778. It isn't as clean a way to do it, but it seems to work. I also would like the ease those programs have for positioning guide lines by dragging them out of the rulers and the resetting of the rulers' 0 position by draging out the crosshairs from the upper left-hand corner. It would be nice if PPage's Block ON would allow for reversed (right to left, bottom to top) blocking of text too, instead of only left to right, top to bottom. The Article Editor allows for it. How about more standardization of keyboard equivalents between PPage, PDraw and AE? Well maybe version 4.0 will answer our cries. Although in my case I have to shell out another $75 buckeroos to find out if the QUIT bug is gone even though I'm only about a month short of the $25 buck upgrade path, AND had complained of the bug since upgrading to 3.0. Well, as long as GD is working on Amiga programs, I intend to give them the support. I would like them to provide a function genie that would strip carriage returns from selected blocks of paragraphs, instead of telling me I the user can write their own ARexx(geine). <sigh> Chris
#83899From: JAN SIMONJan 5, 1993 9:19 AM
Chris, Not sure I follow your ..adding a third tab and use the second TAB.. statement. Wouldn't that be font size and typestyle dependent? I would definitely like to see a PageMaker-like Tab ruler pop up over a selected box. I wonder if the PPage 4.0 upgrade includes a useful, completely new user's manual? When I ordered my upgrade I forgot to ask. It's nice(?) to be able to write your own genies, but how about a "record these mouse/keyboard acions" mode? Then Name, Save and play'em back? Jan ps — It's (PPage) still a decent, capable package for the price!
#83788From: Leonard AbbeyJan 4, 1993 4:41 AM
Jan I agree with your wish for additional tab options (maybe in 4.0????) If anyone has a good workaround for aligning a column of numbers please post it (a Genie would be fine). Regards Leonard
#83900From: JAN SIMONJan 5, 1993 9:20 AM
Leonard, If you can use non-proporttional fonts (courier?), you could align a column of numbers. Might play havoc with your design, though. Jan
#83776From: Jim VentolaJan 4, 1993 1:31 AM
Thanks, Chris. I had figured out about the tabs, but your posting helps a lot. Got any ideas on how to handle page numbers on long docs that are going to need revisions? What about non-symmetrical footers? –Jim
#83751From: Shane WestphalenJan 3, 1993 9:27 PM
Jim- Using PPage for some word processing tasks can prove to be quite challenging. As an example, Wordperfect has a special command, Indent (F4 I think), which automatically aligns text to a tab stop until a carriage return is received. Not so easyin the world of page layout. What I do for indented paragraphs is as follows: I type the number 1 followed immediately by the text I want indented. Then I define a paragraph tag that does NOT use box margins. Rather, I set a new left margin to correspond with the amount I want indented. It is then just a matter of highlighting only the text you want indented (not the number 1) and applying the paragraph tag to it. If it would be helpfull, I could send you a PPage document as an example. Good Luck! Bye- Shane – via Whap!
#83778From: Jim VentolaJan 4, 1993 1:39 AM
Thanks, Shane. I think the suggestions about TAB are even easier than your method. I made a paragraph tag with an outdent of 1.5 and told it to NOT use the box tabs but its own. Then I made the first tab 1.5. Then, in AE, I typed the number and a CTRL-T (for tab) and when I applied the tag it worked like a champ. Chris recommends a tab BEFORE the numeral. I am not sure why, yet. Will ponder it. Thanks again for the help. It HELPS! –Jim Ventola
#83874From: Shane WestphalenJan 5, 1993 12:40 AM
Jim, That sounds a little easier (and perhaps more flexible) to use the Paragraph Tag like you did. Wonderful! Bye, Shane – via Whap!
#83901From: Christopher TolmieJan 5, 1993 10:08 AM
Jim, The first TAB isn't needed if your using the box's margin and not indenting the pargargraph starting with the number. My example was for a paragraph which was indented with the above paragraph having the default margins of the page, you could also turn margins from box off and use other settings. You don't need to use the first TAB. Chris
#83986From: Jim VentolaJan 6, 1993 12:56 AM
Thanks, Chris. I have been experimenting with tabs and such. I never quite got the hang of them but I am getting there slowly. The paragrap tag gives you a lot of control.
#83787From: Leonard AbbeyJan 4, 1993 4:41 AM
Jim RE your question on Indents/Outdents in PPage. My suggestion is that you setup your Pagagraph Tag and use TAB stops to define the spacing. You will have no end of trouble keeping text aligned anyother way (as soon as you change fonts or sizes it will change for sure.) Enter your text as follows :- (tab) = use the Tab Key. 1.(tab)text (tab)Text (tab)Text etc… The new line tends to screw up the Paragraph tag but if you have your tab stops set correctly and use the paragraph tag over the whoe section it will work out fine (or at least it does for me!) Regards Leonard
#83985From: Jim VentolaJan 6, 1993 12:54 AM
Thanks very much for your help. I had been steered to the tab and pagenumbering codes and I knew about Don Cox's Genies. I got them out today and had a closer look. WOW. That is pretty impressive stuff. Of course, you make it sound as if *I* could write a GENIE. I think it takes at least a WIZARD to create a GENIE, no? I have decided on a symmetrical page (for now) with the page number in the middle bottom position. Updating should be easy. Then, I can add non-symmetrical stuff if needed. Still, it would be nice o have a genie to make it easy to add a verso or a recto as needed and have the others updated. Maybe someone who knows ARexx will take up the challenge? I hope more folks will upload Genie's. It makes the Amiga shine. Thanks again. Jim Ventola