#Imagine PC, questions
52 messages in this thread
I have three questions, help please!
My PC upgrade arrived today. I had a bit of a struggle to reconfigure my Dell
486/33 before it would run, getting rid of SmartCache etc:, but it seemed OK.
I had duplicated aand transferred several hundred objects from the Amiga and I
was in the Stage Editor when Imagine quit with a message " 1370728 bytes
allocated " and I was back at the prompt. I was using Dos 54MB and 0 XMS. Am I
short of memory or have I not configured the correctly?
Second Question. Do you release the file formats for Objects and Staging? We
have a real need to Import/Export objects/stages to and ficat Finally I am
considering a Videologic Rapier 24 with either an EIZO F560i or a Dell 17FS. Do
you know of any 'better' combination for Imagine PC? Do you know of any
compatibility problems or additional hardware constraints?
I've been a Silver/Imagine user for about 7 years now with the odd defection
from time to time. I've never found anything better than Imagi The PC version
and the headlined goodies of Ver 3 will really expand our efforts.
regards and thanks in anticipation
tony
Tony, the best bet is to call Impulse's tech support line and clearly describe
your system configuration and problems, particularly if they may be repeated.
Impulse also has a list of the video boards which they are certain work with
the program (not all VESA-compatible boards work alike).
Sorry I can't be of more help. Please direct operational questions this way.
–Rick Rodriguez
Rick
Thanks, I will, (I was just trying to save money calling the helpline from
England!)
Tony Batchelor
Hi,
I've just heard that Imagine is available for the PC, too. Finding this forum I
heard that there is a version 3.0 coming soon. Does this mean there will be a
version 3.0 for the PC, too, or will the PC version comming later?
-Does Imagine (PC) import .DXF files (objects)?
-Can you tell me a way to buy Imagine in Germnay?
TIA
-David
Imagine 3.0 will probably follow for the PC after the Amiga version. This
is probably due to the difficulties in getting Imagine to be compatible
with all of the display cards the PC's use. Leave a give Impulse a call to
find out more info.
-= Vance =-
Thanks for the info. I have never worked with an Amiga, but it always
seemed to be a "play computer" to me. I had to change my mind when I got
more infos about it.
Is the Amiga version faster than the PC version?
-David
I don't have a PC with Imagine to compare my Amiga Imagine to, so I can't
give you speed comparisons. I believe the Amiga has an edge because of the
custom chips. The Amiga also has the edge for setup time. On the Amiga,
you just decompress the software to the hard disk and start to explore. On
the PC, you must manually configure your system and take the risk that you
have something that Imagine doesn't like.
Imagine will quickly become one of your favourite renderers, in any case.
It is well thought out and v3.0 promises to give you MUCH more power for
your PC renderings, as well as many leading edge features to keep you in
bliss.
Back to speed comparisons, you might want to contact Impulse about that.
A big plus for the Amiga side, is the new generation of models such as the
A1200 and A4000. Both will allow Amiga Imagine 3.0 users to render,
display and playback 30-60 fps animations and pics with up to 262,144
colours displayable along with a built-in 24 bit palette. The graphics
equate to 18 bit, which is all of the colours you could possibly need for
broadcast television. The Amiga 1200/4000 also have NTSC video timing
built-in. You also get built-in stereo audio to lay down sound with your
animations.
So, in my opinion, if the PC Imagine renders are quicker, the Amiga would
still have the edge for cost-effective video work.
If you were interested in using both, I would recommend this: Use the PC's
to do the bulk rendering, because 486's are cheap enough to buy for this
purpose. Then transfer your work to either an A1200 or A4000's Imagine to
compile and dump your animations to video. The A4000 would be the
preferable of the two.
Alot of the "play computer" feeling came about because of the Amiga having
inherently better computer games. This proved to be a distraction from how
well suited the Amiga was/is for multi-media and video. Fortunately, more
people are fairly looking at more than one or two systems, as more users
are becoming more concerned with productivity than old alliances.
You'll probably be seeing all of the platforms becoming more and more
capable of readily exchanging data formats as time goes on. We've already
seen a great deal of this.
Anyhow, whatever you end up doing Imagine work on, Imagine is terrific!
-= Vance =-
Hi Vance,
thanks very much for your detailed answer. At the moment I don't have the
money to buy an Amiga4000, so my PC will have to do.
I'm sure Imagine will become my favorite renderer, but I will wait for
version 3.0.
Have you ever worked/tried 3D-Studio? How does it compare to Imagine? I know
there is a big difference in the price. 🙂
-David
You might consider an A1200 as a cheap way to get broadcast quality. But
that's future stuff to think about.
I never had the opportunity to use 3D-Studio, but I've heard mostly good
things about it.
The nice thing about Imagine is that it bridges users of different
platforms and allows them to share their work. You don't have to worry as
much about,"Uh, but are you using an Amiga or a PC?".
Although my answer was detailed, it could have been much more so. I just
didn't want to leave you with the feeling that I was trying to convey
Amiga superiority.
I'm looking forward to Imagine 3.0, too. *8)
-= Vance =-
Vance,
>> You might consider an A1200 as a cheap way to get broadcast quality. <<
I can get my animation on tape with the VideoMachine (from FAST) It can
make the complete animation on tape from the .TGA of .GIF files a raytracer
puts out, so that is not a problem.
Just heared from an Imageine PC user, that the documentation is not very
good and it is the same for the Amiga and the PC version 🙁
-David
Yes, most of the manual for Imagine is windbag city. Most Imagine users
have a book called:
Understanding Imagine 2.0 – A complete Imagine reference by STEVEN WORLEY
I have it and highly recommend it! It takes the pain out of learning to
use the program and it comes with a disk of things to use with the
program. It also includes an excellent JPEG pic of a bowling ball knocking
down the pins, called "Strike".
The book was written when only the Amiga Imagine was out, but 99% of the
information is relevant to PC users, also. It has around 200 pages and the
page size is around 8.5 x 11 inches.
Steve Worley also produced a package called Essence which has tremendous
textures to use with objects in Imagine. He produced it for the Amiga, but
you'll have to contact him if they will work with the PC version, or if
you can get a PC version.
-= Vance =-
If the Documnetation of the IBM version of Imagine is anything like the
docs for the Amiga version it's pretty BAD. Invest an extra $30 in APex's
Understanding Imagine 2.0 Book written by Steve Worley and you'll find
using Imagine MUCH EASIER.
I think Rick mentioned that his 486-33 rendered Imagine scenes in about
the same time that his 040 based machine took on the Amiga. I don';t
remember the Clock speed of the 040 he used.
I have had a chance to compare the two versions on a freinds machine ( I'm
still using turbo silver, but seriously considering moving up to 2.0). He has
an A2000 with an 040 accel at 33mhz and a 486dx 50, we rendered the same scene
on both machine in ray trace mode and for some reason the 486 beat the 040
version hands down!!! Now perhaps this was because he was using the floating
point version of imagine with his gvp board, I don't know. Both machines have
16 meg ram btw…
The amiga wins in out in that it currently has more tools available for imagine
than does the pc version.
James,
thanks for the info. I was just interested, I don't want to buy a computer
for Imagine. At the moment I have a small animation programm, with a slow
raytracer, and "only" a 386/40+387, but speed is not the problem, it's more
the disk space (I only have 230mb).
-David
Well, if drive space is a major concern then at least Imagine wont eat up tons
of space with it's program files alone. 3d studio eats up much much more space
than Imagine!
>> 3d studio eats up much much more space
>> than Imagine!
And it eats up much more money as well 🙂 3DS is out of reach for me at the
moment aynway…
-David
David, if you can find a SCSI Card for yer PC you might want to take a
look at the Syquest 88 meg REMOVEABLE HD. Now that I think of it, I
believe their NEW 105 meg Removeable is an IDE drive. When the Cartridge
Fills you simply put a NEW Blank cart in and get another 105 megs of
Space.
Peter,
I tought about the Syquest. I really need a medium to store all my
animations (not only the animation, but all the single pictures). OTOH the
Syquest is a bit expensive just using it for backups. I don't even have a
streamer <blush>
-David
David,
I did a test render last week. I created a scene with a sphere, tube and
torus (donut), in front of some grid walls with a touch of Pastella texture to
give them a dirty look. (But I'm rambling) Did a full 320 x 200 ray-trace with
ELDE = 0 (i.e. best render quality with full antialiasing).
Time on the 486/33 PC: 4.5 minutes
Time on my A3000/25: 18 minutes! That's *** 4 times longer! ***
Blaq!
>> Time on my A3000/25: 18 minutes! That's *** 4 times longer! *** <<
Thanks very much for that info! Looks like I'm on the right side <bg>
-David
EGAD's MAN, 4 times longer on a 3000/25 eh?
If he was talking 486 speed to A3000/25 speed, then of course it'll be 4
times longer. It would be the same with a top notch 68040 compared to a
68030/25.
If he's meaning 486 to 68040, then I don't buy that. The 486 and 68040 are
roughly in the same range.
-= Vance =-
Yes Vance, that's comparing a 486/33 with an 030/25.
Blaq!
Could you arrange a comparison between Imagine on a 486 and an 040-based
Amiga?
-= Vance =-
David, the plan is for the PC and Amiga 3.0 versions to be released
simultaneously sometime this summer. Imagine reads and writes DXF format
(Amiga version 3.0 will as well). Don't know about distribution in Germany.
–Rick Rodriguez
Rick,
thanks very much for the info. Good to hear that both version will come out
simultaneously. I know it's a difficult question, but can you tell my what
the price will be for version 3.0 for the PC?
If you hear anything about a distibuter in Germany please let me know.
thanks
-David
Egad's MAN, Don't I feel the fool. I just told David Hoffman that NO
VERSION of Imagine supports DXF's directly. oh well.
Will there also be a Loader in Imagine 3.0 for Lightwave Models? Hint hint
Nudge Nudge.
>> Egad's MAN, Don't I feel the fool. I just told David Hoffman that NO
>> VERSION of Imagine supports DXF's directly. oh well.
Peter,
never mind, I'm happy, that you are wrong and that Imagine 3.0 *does* read
and write .DXF 🙂
A lot of my objekts are in .DXF format, and I also have AutoCAD.
-David
I haven't examined the level of DXF support in Imagine PC, but chances are,
you'd still gain fidelity by using an add-on third-party conversion program
like InterChange Plus. For example, our DXF Converter lets you choose how to
interpret and/or export the information represented in DXF layers and DXF pens.
For example, you can convert that hierarchical Imagine object to a DXF file
that uses layers to represent sub-objects, or DXF pens to represent surfaces,
or vice-versa. The same is true for import. I doubt the built-in conversion in
any program can equal what we've piled into our DXF conversion.
Sounds interesting. At the moment I don't have Imagine at all, I'll wait for
version 3.0. .DXF import and export is very important, IMO. What formats
does you converter accepts? Can it also read the files from 3DS?
-David
We support a lot of formats, about two dozen. Which formats are important to
you? Yes, we read and write .3DS files as well as 3D Studio .MLI material
libraries, and we export .ASC files.
>> Which formats are important to you?
I think .DXF and .3DS are the only imortant for me so far, but I have to
admit, that I don't know too much about what other formats might be
interesting when working with Imagine.
But before we go on, I don't have Imagine! <embarrassed grin> I'll wait for
version 3. But I'll keep your ID in my "address book" (OzCIS).
thanks
-David
I just got Syndesis's 3D STudio Module. It both LOADS and SAVES 3D Studio
objects in ASC,3DS formats and also handle the Materials Libraries.
This is an ADDON and NOT part of the standard software. The 3D Studio
Module cost me $150
Peter,
This converter is sure a very good tool, but as long as I don't make
animation commercally the simple .dxf in and out has to be enough.
…unfortunately
-David
I'm ALSO glad that I was wrong. Hurray, Now I'm really Dying to get
Imagine 3.0
No version of Imnagine will import DXF's currently. You'll have to use a
Converter to get DXF's into Imagine. If there are no converters available
for the IBM/Clone to/from DXF then you might want to look into a cheap
used Amiga and Syndesis Interchange Plus Software with their optional DXF
conversion module or their 3D Studio conversion module.
David, the german distributor of Impulse is Memphis. Their address is
Memphis Computer Products GmbH
Max-Planck-Str. 9a
6382 Friedrichsdorf
The newsletter I received today is a bit outdated but hey, at least
I got one finally.
— Quinten
Hi Quinten,
Thanks very much! I'll contact them next week. Good to know there is a
dealer here in Germany. OTOH mostly the software is much more expensive in
Germany than in the US.
There won't be a german version, right?
thanks again,
-David
David, I doubt there ever will be a germam version of Imagine but it would
be nice if Impulse would prove me wrong.
— Quinten
Tony,
did you buy your copy of Imagine in England or did you get it my mail order
form the states? I'm asking because I'm wondering which way is the best to get
Imagine in Germany.
adTHANKSvance
-David
David,
Sorry about the delay replying to you but I've been travelling for a few days.
I bought my copy of Imagine PC direct from Impulse. I sent them a fax with
creditcard details and it arrived with 5 days.
I still havn't solved all the difficulties of running on my PC but when it runs
the results are superb.
Tony.
>> I still havn't solved all the difficulties of running on my PC but when
>> it runs the results are superb.
Oh, what does that mean? What problems do you have? I plan to buy version 3
when it's available. Maybe the problem will be solved (or there will be
others) in this version.
-David
The problem that stops my Dell is that Imagine suddenly quits with a message
like 1230174 bytes still allocated.
I have no problem on my Amstrad Alt 386SX except that I don't want to use it
for Imagine because it only has an LCD screen. To be fair to Impulse I havn't
given them all the details and there may be an easy fix, ( see my earlier
message to them ). I still run my Amiga version because my video output system
is driven by the Amiga so the problems havn't stopped me working.
Tony
Tony,
Are you using Imagine for commercial purpose, or do you have it "just for
fun"?
-David
David,
I use it commercially; our company is involved with deep drilling and mining
work worldwide and we use it to model deep wells/tunnels to show the
geology/structural features etc. We use it for two key purposes: firstly as a
very cost effective 3-d workstation to design the geometry of a structure and
secondly to make short animations to explain the project to
investors/regulators etc:. We use individual rendered frames as illustrations
in reports.
We have a major current project where 6 deviated holes must remain a certain
distance from each other and miss a series of tunnels by fixed margin yet still
intersect geological features of interest "seen" in the geophysics results. The
modelling tools in Imagine are just superb for this.
Incidentally, it looks like I've managed to get Imagine PC working but I have
to reconfigure the machine when I use other applications. Impluse gave me a few
clues to sort the problem out.
We work with a German drilling company Bohrgesellschaft Rhein Ruhr from Essen
and I was actually away from home showing them the animations on video when you
sent your first message.
Best wishes
Tony
Tony,
I don't know how much you have to reconfigure you system, but maybe a boot
manager like in DOS 6 will help you.
>> to make short animations to explain the project to
>> investors/regulators etc
That's the other big market for manimation besids of the entertainment
sector. People often don't think of that when they hear "animation".
BTW, if you make animation on video what resolution do you use? For PAL is
should be 786×576, but how about NTSC?
-David
Tony,
if display quality is what's stopping you from using Imagine on your
LCD-display Amstrad, pop over to the Preferences editor and change the various
colors to enable a clearer display.
Blaq!
Blaq!
Thanks, I have 'tweaked' most of the ones that matter, ie selected and picked,
and the Amstrad is certainly keeping us working while we try to sort out the
Dell; it is frustrating to see the end result in black and white initially!
Tony
Tony, just thought you might like to know, if ever you get the urge to import
pictures rendered on the PC version over to the Amiga (lets say you have all
your video stuff for the Amiga and use the PC to cut the render times in half),
you need to download a program called IMTRAN. It should be in this lib. If
not let me know. Imagine on the Amiga does not understand the color pallette
of the pics that the PC puts out. I wrote a little util to fix the file
(without loosing colors) and also copy the files and rename them for you
(because of the diff in naming conventions).
Regards,
Tony Pitman
Tony
Thanks for the tip. I had intended to do all the development work
on the PC and then take the whole Project back to the Amiga for
rendering and video output. I've got Image Alchemy ( the full version)
which I have been using to go IFF-TIFF and back. The other complication
is I use UNIRAS on our Vax with a homebrewed IFF driver to generate
some of the frames and I assemble the whole thing on the Amiga. IMTRAN
could be quite a help if I don't have to rerender.
Regards
Tony
/exit