#EVO-9650
20 messages in this thread
I've decided to step up to 24bit rendering (if I can afford it — this is
STRICTLY a hobby) and I was eyeing the Sony EVO-9650 single frame recorder
which has the serial port built-in (and, so the press goes, no need for a
separate frame controller). Does 3DStudio support this machine? Or is support
in the works? If not, why not? And if not, are there any other (relatively)
low cost alternatives?
I have a Cardinal Snap-Plus card I've been using for output (that is, for
playing the FLCs and videotaping them) which supports hi-color (not true-color
but seems very adequate for the thing I have in mind. However, I suspect this
might not be enough even if the 9650 is supported. Do I need another video
card as well?
Finally, if anyone else wants to jump right on in here with suggestions I'd
love to hear them. I'm willing to spend 4 or 5K for a single frame solution,
but really nothing more (if it's more then I might as well wait for the coming
"revolution" when all this stuff will cost less than $100).
Mike,
I think I can get you into this a little less expensive or at least in your
budget. You will have to buy a V-LAN Animax Card for you controller but it
will benefit you in the long run. Plus if you can have the best and stay in
you budget it probably makes sense to go with it. The nice thing about using a
V-LAN controller or getting into a V-LAN system is that your not at a dead end
street when you buy. If you switch VTRs at any time your cotroller still works
with every VTR and you don't have to worry about whether or not the software
support you VTR or not. With the V-LAN you also have the ability to upgrade to
more machines at any time for rotoscoping or digitizing from multiple VTRs.
You also have the ability to get into Video tape editing when you want as well.
(I'm sure you would like to edit your animations at some point)
Why are you going Hi 8 for Animation? This is a terrible format for any
serious animation. To many problems with the tape itself. Drop outs, tape
stretching, tapes getting eaten. Pain in the ….
I would suggest Sony's new SVHS recorder the SVO 9600. You can get them for
$2099.00. Then you have to buy the 422 interface and Time Code option which
will cost you $1200.00 dollars. The V-LAN Animax ISA Card is $1250.00. The
V-LAN Alix external controller is 1695.00. This runs you about $4550.00. But
you have a much better deck plus a fully frame accurate and expanable
controller. Note on the EVO 9650, you can only use it for single frame
animation. You can't do edits any longer than about 15 seconds. It may not
seem like a big deal now but why invest in that limitation.
If you have any other questions let me know.
Larry, I haven't heard anything about the SVO 9600. Is this the system you're
using? I'm also in the market, and would like to know how these various
components are treating you.
It would seem to me this wouldn't be as elegant as a more integrated deck like
the EVO-9650, but that's just an opinion without any backing.
TIA M. Bman
Mathew,
I'm not quite sure what you mean by the EVO being "more integrated". They are
both vtrs that function identically for the most part. The main difference
between them is that one is 8mm (HI 8) and the other is SVHS and one can only
be used for animation and the other can be used for editing and animation. The
SVO is the newest deck from SONY. Both can be controlled by V-LAN identically.
The SVO can be used in more applications.
Larry,
When I spoke to a representative from Sony, he strongly recommended against
using the SVHS deck for single frame animation. It wasn't designed for that,
and that the 9650 was specifically designed for single frame
animation–tougher. Single frame animation is infinitely more rigorous on a
tape deck. So I would ultimately have the impression Sony has much more
confidence in the internals of the 9650. This isn't necessarily aimed at you.
I've just heard so many people debating this one.<g>
Roger D.
I purchased a Sony SVO 9600 to use as a player/backup editor in my system. I
was attracted to it for its price. I was a bit skeptical about it so I hedged
my bet and bought it thinking of using it only as a player and backup. I have
been very surprised. I have had less problems with it so far than my Panasonic
AG 7750. It is a lighter deck, and I would not recommend it in an industrial
abusive enviroment, but in my studio where I watch and take great care of
everything, I dont see any problems. I am not sure about its lon longevity for
doing animation, but for the price, it can sertainly get you off the ground.
I have dropped over 5 minutes of animation to it so far with out missing a
frame. I use Vlan controllers. OZ
Larry
On the subject of drop out, color framing, etc. can you throw any light on the
differences between NTSC and PAL for single frame recording. It has become
clear from conversations with VCR manufacturers that the two formats have
different capabilities and that a machine that color frames in NTSC may not
give the same result in PAL. I want to upgrade from S-VHS but have had some
very wide advice on what next.
BTW any response from VME on the 5 pin Panasonic testing.
Martin Bowring
Martin,
I wouldn't upgrade from SVHS to Hi 8 (nor would I call it an upgrade).
It depends on what your using now. The signal out of a Panasonic 7750 is
better than the signal coming out of a 1970 and they are both SVHS recorders.
If you are using the V-LAN to control your decks for animation it takes care of
the color framing problems automatically.
I haven't had a chance to talk to VME about testing. Have you called them?
Regards,
Larry
I would question your claim that V-LAN handles the colour framing. Most of my
initial problems were specifically related to dropped fields or frames. I now
have a stable system but have spent a lot of time and money getting there.
My question comes from comments made by manufacturers technical reps i.e
PAL requires a 6 frame colour edit, my machine performs a 3 frame edit and PAL
is completely different from NTSC. I have tried U-Matic SP which had problems
and Betacam which didn't.
Martin Bowring
Thanks for the reply — this is the kind of information I was looking for. I
wasn't (am not) married to Hi 8 — while I use this format for my video work in
terms of raw footage (which I then dub off onto SVHS for editing on a pair of
1960s) I just happened to read this review of the machine which looked like a
good alternative to spending a fortune on equipment which may be obsolete with
the advent of true digital editing on the PC (as those prices go down and
performance goes up).
I'm assuming the V-Lan Animax is the computer card — is this an output card?
Forgive my ignorance, but I'd rather ask now than be told that "Oh, and there's
just one more piece of equipment you need…"
Mike, I'm completely immersed in software issues right now, and can't even
think about hardware. I'll have to defer most questions to other folks on the
forum to help.
Thanks for understanding,
– G
Thanks — I saw that same response (from you) to someone else AFTER I had
uploaded my question, so I fully understand (and hope you forgive my intrusion
— I'm MUCH more interested in you getting Release 3 out!!!).
Speaking of which (no, I'm not going to ask the one you have to give the
standard answer to) — just in VERY general terms, can you say that this
release is as big a step forward as release 2 was from release 1? Whet our
appetites…
Gary's off for the next week getting his juices restored for the last big push.
As far as your second question, I think Gary's already answered that
elsewhere–affirmatively.
– Jack
Mike,
the EVO-9650 still needs software to control the deck. Diaquest has an RS-232
software controller for $995. If you are a decent programmer you may be able to
write your own controller software to run from the command line, I don't know I
haven't done it. The Sony people I talked to at NAB show in Vegas did not
recommend the new SVHS decks for animation because they aren't sufficiently
heavy-duty to stand up to it. Currently the EVO-9650 with a targa+, and
controller software is probably the cheapest way to go (about $6k / $7k
street/retail). Alternatively, you could find a used Panasonic AG7750, used
diaquest dq422, and a targa+ for your price range ($4-5k).
Mike,
The SVO 9600 will stand up for animation just as well as the EVO 9650 and you
won't be paying a higher price for a more limiting deck. The Video quality on
the 9650 may be a little better, but it's not better after 1 or 2 generations
and it is still a poor format for doing continuous single frame animation.
Sony doen't say it is frame accurate because they don't want to sell it into
that market. They want to sell the EVO. It costs more. (supposedly the
justification is that animation is specialized enough). Sony markets a
different deck for different purposes, they don't want you using the same deck
for multiple things when your only paying 3-5k for it.
Larry,
so you are saying that Sony is misleading me when they say the deck isn't tough
enough for single frame animation? I find that hard to believe and tend to take
them on their word. 3 or 4 seperate people told me this and one of them, in
particular, I trust quite a lot.
PMFJI, I have a pretty close working relationship with people at Sony and when
they got me in touch in engineers in the Professional video division I was also
told that the 9600 is _not_ a good choice for frame-accurate work.
John,
teehee, well I guess even at Sony everyone has a different opinion <g>. What
did they suggest was a good choice for "frame-accurate work"?
the 9650.
Well, I could certainly write the software (here, at least, is what I do for a
living) as long as I could figure out how to run it from within 3DS. I mean,
after 3DS renders a frame, then I'd have to run my routine to control the deck,
then I'd have to return to 3DS for next frame, etc. Alternatively, I could
render as many frames as I have hard disk space for, and THEN write them all
out, but this seems like a waste of hard disk space and a needless limitation
on what I could output.
Do I have to have a Targa+ board? I mean, suppose I have another card (like
the one I have, the Snapplus) which outputs Hi-color (fine for me) to SVHS?
Can't I just record off of this the way I do for my normal animations, or is
there something I'm missing?