#Gamma
15 messages in this thread
Well, I'm jumping back on this thread because I'm afraid something's being
missed here. Even though I missed the beginning of this thread, I gather you
are very concerned about your gamma-matching indicator number, AND you are
using an SVGA display and/or an RGB monitor. If so, besides all that's been
said about gamma, if you're going out to tape – you shouldn't even be using the
SVGA/RGB monitor combo for evaluation in the first place…..you should be
using the framebuffer and an NTSC calibrated monitor. When I'm at the
appropriate stage in a project, I'll actually go out of the framebuffer,
through the format converter, and through the recorder itself in EE mode to the
NTSC monitor. That's the only way I can get an idea of what it's really going
to look like on tape. I'll even monitor the composite or Y/C3.58 video, even
though it's a component recorder, because that's what the end user is going to
see – even though it looks worse. No point in fooling yourself here by
monitoring a different or better looking signal than what's going to be on the
distibution tape. I may model & animate with SVGA/Multisync, or even start to
get close with the rendered images, but then switch over to the NTSC stuff to
finalize. Also, where I run my multisync at with an SVGA display, my
gamma-matching indicator says 2.46 ! Forget about it. Do the above.
I agree, too. If your output is to be video tape you must see the results as
you stated, however, I feel you should start from the beginning with a frame
buffer because it saves time. When setting up my materials I use the targa+
for test FB renders to the NTSC monitor. When I do editor tests I use the
targa+. When I start to keyframe I switch to the PAR with half frame for speed
and then finally at full res for output. I only render to the SVGA monitor if
I'm doing a still output for slides. I don't see a necessity for test
rendering through the VCR in EE since this ties up expensive equipment and if
the system is timed properly there should be no difference in the output of
your FB than with the VCR in the circuit in EE. Of course, my facility for
animation does not have any recorders. I must route the output from my PAR or
targa+ to the Video editing suite for recording.
Using an (interlaced) framebuffer from the get-go may save time, but it will
not save your eyesight ! <g> I too, used to always work on the Vista, until my
vision turned to mush from designing complex models on an interlaced display –
can't do it any more.
BILL
That's what's so great about 3DS… you can model and do all the work type
stuff on the non-interlaced computer monitor, then render to the video monitor,
which is the only way to know what it'll look like on TV. I remember the first
few things I did in 3DS, before I got a VTR and monitor – I transfered to tape
at a remote site – WOW was I disappointed in how crappy it all looked.
John Tissavary (LUNA cie)
Really. When I starting dabbling with 3DS is when I quit modeling & animating
with interlaced display on the PC. 3DS does make things very convienient.
>> That's what's so great about 3DS… <<
You can say that again, among other things. I used to do all my animation on a
long persistence monitor through the Targa. That was and is the setup for
Digital Arts. But that was before SVGA which really changed everything.
-JE
Maybe you misunderstood. I use the targa+ for rendering the color swatches in
the materials editor and the maping renders in the editor only. I use the Idek
5317 for the actual editor screen. Rendering to the SVGA monitor, IMO, is a
waste of time if the final output is for video.
I guess I did Don. <g> How do you like that IDEK ? I've used several for
several years, with outstanding performance.
BILL
>> How do you like that IDEK
I've used several monitors and the IDEK, I've kept because I can work at it for
hours without getting a headache. On the other end of the scale the Toaster
monitor gives me a headache in 4 seconds. <BG>
I bet it does <g>.
Don,
I agree that ideally you should have a framebuffer to render to for a variety
of reasons including saving time. Its also nice to have a rendered image on the
framebuffer or be able to call up an image to see what changes you want to make
and using it as a reference. This is impossible with a one monitor setup. (Well
not impossible, but I won't do it.)
-JE
I agree wholeheartedly! Unfortunately, at this point in time, I can't afford
to pick up a good NTSC monitor — I'm a bit overextended, just having bought
the PAR, and another computer. I realize that there is no substitute, but for
now, until I get a couple paying jobs, I have to make do and try to come up
with another reference. I'm working on my demo reel now, so I took a short
clip out to tape, and took it to "Incredible Universe", a huge electronics
store that happened to have an NTSC monitor in their high-end section, and
checked the output there. 2.0 looked pretty good, so I decided to stick with
that for my gamma output setting for now. I just wanted to get my SVGA to a
point where I could look at something and have a pretty good idea of what it
would look like on tape. Hence, this thread. Thanks again for all your help–
–John
You probably already have a good NTSC monitor, a TV set. Remember, your tapes
aren't likely to be ultimately viewed on $10,000 monitors – just plain old
TV's. So your effort should be put into making images look as good as possible
when viewed on plain old TV's. I'd be willing to bet that the monitor at an
electronics store is nowhere near accurately calibrated. Take a TV, and try to
rent a colorbar generator and get a book or some advice on adjusting the
display from the reference signal (by eye). This will get you close for little
money. Tape the knobs on the TV or whatever to make sure they stay at the
calibrated positions.
BILL
Yeah, I do have a TV/monitor that I have been using, but it' snot the best
quality – (K-Mart special about 7 years ago!) The PAR came with an NTSC
colorbars still that I used to calibrate to monitor. Works OK, but there is no
substitute for quality! Thanks again for all of your help —
–John
Sure thing.