#RAM & Chip questions
13 messages in this thread
Ron,
I opened MAX: up today and gave him a good cleaning. I took the
opportunity to take a long hard look at everything. I still can't
figure out what makes this thing so heavy –sure wasn't the _dust_
making it weigh so much. <g>
The A2091 doesn't appear to have much in the way of possible spaces
for adding anything but it's so terribly close to the A2630 accelerator
board that I couldn't really tell. I'm wondering if these little
things that look like rabbit ears are the place one would add ram
chips. Only one of the stack of rabbit ears had what looked like a
rectangular hat on them (black plastic hat with tops of ears poking
through). The others were bare. Printed beneath this set of 4
rabbit ears were the words: memory size JP1.
Each of the 4 had a corresponding "name". Top was 2M; 2nd one down
was 1M; 3rd was 512K; and the last one was "OK" <—-only one wearing
hat.
A similar set of rabbit ears named "options" and labeled 1; 2; and 4
each wore half a hat (one ear was bare).
I am curious as to what these do and why the difference in hat
wearing style.
The A2630 was easier to see and after careful study I determined
that there was a place for adding chips but that they would indeed
have to be soldered in place after sticking their prongs through
the holes. Each place could accomodate a rectangle shaped piece
that had 20 prongs (2 rows of 10). It appears they should be
grouped in sets of 4. There is enough space for 16 of this kind
of chip. I have ordered 8. This should give MAX: 4 additional
megs of ram. <Whoopee!>
I sure hope I've made the correct assessment of what's needed here.
I think I'll cancel the thought of installing them myself and call
the person who helped me put in the rom chip.
Vicki …from the coffee cart at the mall
Vicki,
Those "rabbit ears" are jumper pins. The "hats" are jumpers. IF they
are on two pins, that jumper is selected. IF on one pin, then it's simply
storing the jumper block so if you need it…you don't have to go try to find
one.
So if you added memory to the A2091, you'd move the jumper to the
appropriate set of pins (0, 512K or 2 Meg) pins. Since you have no added RAM
on the board…the "hat" is on the 0 Meg setting.
Don
VJ >>I still can't figure out what makes this thing so heavy –sure wasn't
the _dust_ making it weigh so much. <g> <<
I think its the metal shielding that makes the machine so heavy. You need
to have a lot of shielding to block the 'radio interference' generated by
the electronics — or everyone on the block will see MAX: dancing on their
TV's. 🙂
—
VJ >>The A2091 doesn't appear to have much in the way of possible spaces
for adding anything […]<<
After re-checking my info, I believe the A2091 only allowed 2-megs of RAM
to be added to it.
—
VJ >>I'm wondering if these little things that look like rabbit ears are
[…] Printed beneath this set of 4rabbit ears were the words: memory
size JP1.
Sounds like you found the jumpers. Did they look like pins nailed into
the board, standing in pairs?
These pins are 'wires' sticking up. The black 'hat' is plastic, but
contains a metal wire inside. When the black box is plugged across a pair
of pins, a bridge is created that activates a feature or option.
Often, when a black box isn't being used, the box will be pushed down onto
only one of the pins.
—
VJ >>Each of the 4 had a corresponding "name". Top was 2M; 2nd one down
was 1M; 3rd was 512K; and the last one was "OK" <—-only one wearing
hat.<<
These jumpers let the A2091, know how much RAM you have plugged into it,
so that it doesn't mistake missing RAM for bad RAM chips. You can have
2-meg, 1-meg, 512K, or 0K (zero K) of RAM on the A2091.
Sounds like the A2091, is set to have 0K (zero K) of RAM activated. If
the A2091, uses '256k x 4' DRAMs, you could have upto 8 RAM chips plugged
into the board.
—
VJ >>A similar set of rabbit ears named "options" and labeled 1; 2; and 4
each wore half a hat (one ear was bare).<<
I assume you mean on the A2630 board. These are the jumpers that tell the
A2630 how much RAM is plugged into it. Either 1-meg, 2-megs, or 4-megs.
It apprears the A2630 allows for only 4-megs of RAM to be plugged into it.
—
VJ >> It appears they should be grouped in sets of 4. There is enough
space for 16 of this kind of chip.<<
Sorry, you need to add in sets of 8. And each 8 chips, gives only 1-meg
of memory.
Buying RAM chips, is like buying pizza by the slice. You can buy either
eight 1-bit slices to make a whole 8-bit pizza, or you can buy two 4-bit
slices to makes a whole 8-bit pizza.
Those '256k x 4' chips provide 4-bits of an 256K pizza. To make a whole
256K pizza, you need 8-bits — thus two '256K x 4' chips.
Also, the A2630 wants 32-bits at a time for it's RAM dinner, with each RAM
chip giving 4-bits, you need to add eight chips (8 x 4-bits = 32) at a
time.
—
We need to re-check the math, or the configuration of your Amiga. I
thought one of your origional messages said, that you had 4-megs of RAM in
your Amiga.
I re-read the message containing your ShowConfig. You mention only 1-meg
of CHIP, and 2-megs of FAST RAM.
*If* the A2091 is empty (0K), then the remaining memory is from the A2630
board. And the A2630 allows 4-megs, added in groups of 8 chips. If
sixteen sockets are empty, then 2-megs are filled.
Either you have only 3-megs of RAM, or there was a typo. Unless there is
1-meg on the A2091 card — not configured due to wrong jumper setting.
Ron.
– ap'ing with AP. (Eagles may fly, but weasels aren't sucked
into jet engines.)
>>Either you have only 3-megs of RAM, or there was a type. …<<
Ron,
I have a feeling you are correct. I don't believe there was a typo
but that 2 + 1 = 3. Indeed! ;^)
Of course, there is always the possibility that (as you said) they were
"not configured due to wrong jumper setting."
According to the spec sheet for my 2500, there is "1MB 16 bit RAM and
2MB 32 bit RAM standard." The same sheet continues, "internally
expandable up to an additional 6 MB (with AUTOCONFIG feature) -total
maximum 9 MB."
Up till now I have thought that MAX: had 4 MBs RAM. Being correct or
incorrect about that doesn't distress me nearly as much as not being
able to determine what is needed to obtain the additional RAM.
In the owner's manual I've found this paragraph under the subtitle
"Installing an Additional 2MB of Memory":
The A2630 support an additional 2 megabytes of memory.
(Memory type is 414256-10 ZIP-style package — 100ns.)
For this upgrad you'll need 16 memory chips and a soldering
iron. ….All references to the accelerator card assume that
the Motorol chips are up and to the left, the memory chips
are to the right, and the coprocesor slot connector edge
is down and to the left."
The first 2 sentences I understand, but the last means nothing to me.
Right, left, up, down — from what or where?
—————–
In another part of the manual (actually the same page, printed
above the previous quotes), under the subtitle "Memory Connectors"
it says: "There are two 64-pin connectors on the back of the
A263 board in locations CN300 and CN301. These connectors have
been provided for the future addition of 32-bit expansion memory.
At the time of this printing, such memory boards are not available."
How convenient for them. ;^( If the board were available there
would be no space in which to place it even though they've left
the sockets. The 2091 board is immediately next to it and there
is absolutely no room for another board between the two.
I do recall seeing two long white rectangles that could possibly
contain 2 rows of 16 holes (looked like sockets) but I didn't count
the holes. Is it possible that the 2091 board could be moved one
space over so as to accommodate the mentioned "32-bit expansion memory?"
———————
Even if I succeed in adding the 2MB of memory to the 2630 board,
that would only mean I'd have 5 MBs of RAM. Where might the other
4 (to get to the maximum of 9) be added? Would the correct answer
be to add ram to the 2091? The CMOS 256 x 4 DRAMs? (…and I'd
need how many of those –4?)
———————
Thanks for all your replies, they are very helpful.
Vicki …from the last hour of a too-long weekend
I don't have a A2500, nor have I had a A2630, or A2091 board. I've been
helping, but using the info you given me,and the info I found in old
magazines and text files. I'm starting to worry, that I may lead you a
stray — on what you need, and how you can add it. You may need to find
someone local, that has expanded A2630 boards, and have him look.
—
Vj >>According to the spec sheet for my 2500, there is "1MB 16 bit RAM
and 2MB 32 bit RAM standard." The same sheet continues, "internally
expandable up to an additional 6 MB (with AUTOCONFIG feature) -total
maximum 9 MB."<<
Ok, you can have upto a total of 9-megs of RAM, on your Amiga.
The first meg being CHIP, which you already have. This leaves room for
8-megs of FAST memory, added through the expansion slots.
You already have 2-megs of FAST on the A2630 board, leaving room for
6-megs of FAST.
Your A2630 can hold 2 more megs, and the A2091 can also hold two more
megs. If you fill the remaing space on both boards, that would be 4-megs
of RAM added — leaving room for a finally 2-megs.
1-meg CHIP, installed on motherboard
2-megs FAST, installed on A2630
2-megs FAST, that can still be added to A2630
2-megs FAST, that can still be added to A2091
——
7-megs total, allowing 2 more megs by adding third expansion board.
The A2091, using CMOS 256kx4 DRAMs, depending on the jumper setting could
allow for:
2048K (2-Meg) using 16 chips
1024K (1-Meg) using 8 chips
512K (512K) using 4 chips
—
VJ >>In the owner's manual I've found this paragraph under the subtitle
"Installing an Additional 2MB of Memory":<<
Ok, it appears you need RAM chips in the form of ZIPs, that the ZIPs are
added all at once — the whole 2-megs (16 chips). These are '256k x 4'
ZIP chips, refreshed at a speed of 100 nanoseconds.
The hard part is that they must be soldered.
—
VJ >> All references to the accelerator card assume that
the Motorol chips are up and to the left, the memory chips
are to the right, and the coprocesor slot connector edge
is down and to the left."
I simply means, that when you pull out the A2630 card and lay it down, in
front of you, that the directions assume you have layed in card down so
that:
– the big square 68030 CPU, and 68881 FPU chips are on the left-side,
and
– the spot were you are going to solder the RAM is on the card's
right-side.
– And that the part of the card that plugs into the computer slot, is
closer to you,
– while the top part of the card is farther away.
—
VJ >>under the subtitle "Memory Connectors" it says […] for the future
addition of 32-bit expansion memory. […] At the time of this printing,
such memory boards are not available." <<
I don't know if Commodore ever came out with the memory boards, but DKB
has a 112-meg expansion board designed for your A2630 — it also allows
for adding smaller amounts of RAM.
—
VJ >>Is it possible that the 2091 board could be moved one space over<<
The A2091, should work in *any* of the Zorro-II slots.
Ron.
– ap'ing with AP. (Eagles may fly, but weasels aren't sucked
into jet engines.)
Ron,
Akkk! I just noticed that we're in the Amiga Hardware section (11)
now and I've not set AP to pick up that section. (Will make the
change.) No wonder I've been missing messages that come up as
read waiting when I post and then come on later and can't see them
in the newbie section. <g> I'm always helping folk in the Crafts
Forum resolve that dilemma –how could I be so dumb! <e>
Please read the message I just posted in section 4 (to Richard).
Sorry, I don't know the number. Anyway, it'll probably get moved
in here.
As I was saying in that message… all the ram chip spaces on the
2091 are filled so it looks like I could/should have access to more
than the what jumper 1 is set for (0 kilobytes).
I can't figure out how they came to be filled as the owner manual
addresses the task of filling them if one wants to add ram. I wonder
why none of the tech people who've ever looked inside MAX: didn't notice
this and offer to move the jumper hat so that MAX: could use all the
ram available. <frown>
About finding local help… yes, I'm working on that too, but it's
a lot slower than the help I find here. When I called the two
Amiga dealers in my immediate area (neither of whom I have a favorable
impression) they put me off by saying they do not stock (won't even
order) the ram chips I need while blandly offering to install them
if I should locate them. <phooey on 'em> I wonder how they stay in
business with such an attitude toward customer service.
Vicki …from the Bocafax that I've renamed
Jokafax (joke-a-fax)
VJ >>I can't figure out how they came to be filled as the owner manual
addresses the task of filling them if one wants to add ram.<<
Perhaps the manual was for both a version with added RAM, and a version
without?
—
VJ >>I wonder why none of the tech people who've ever looked inside MAX:
didn't notice this and offer to move the jumper hat so that MAX: could use
all the ram available.<<
Maybe they assumed you set it that way on purpose, or never actually
examined the A2091 card.
Ron.
– ap'ing with AP. (Eagles may fly, but weasels aren't sucked
into jet engines.)
Ron,
I've moved the jumper pin setting from 0 to 2. When I boot I get
a red/brown screen entitled _System_Expansion_Board_Check_ that
contains 3 columns: Status; Manufacturer; Product.
Product "81" and "3" are "ok" but product "10" is *BAD*.
Each product is identified as "514" under the Manufacturer column.
Interesting. What does this mean?
When I click on a box named "continue" at the bottom of the screen
the system boots up just fine. No problems. <shrug>
ShowConfig in the tools drawer reports the additional 2 Meg of ram.
Any suggestions as to how to eliminate the red/brown screen?
Vicki
PS –I wrote this same message just a few minutes ago but when I
clicked on "save" I got a guru error. Yikes! I haven't had one of
those in ages. This is a bad sign.
<frown>
VJ >>entitled _System_Expansion_Board_Check_ that contains 3 columns:<<
The numbers listed, indentify:
– the maker of the board,
– which product model the board is — since a maker may make several
different kinds of boards and revised designs,
– and whether the board pasted tests it ran on itself, when the
Amiga powered up.
The '514' is Commodore's ID number. Any board that is made by Commodore,
will list '514' as being the manufacturer. Other companies will have
different ID numbers. (For example, a board made by GVP, would list 2017,
as the maker.)
Product number 3, is Commdore's product ID for the A2091.
I'm not sure what products have the 81, & 10 product ID. Perhaps, product
10 is the RAM expansion of the A2091.
Make sure all the boards are properly seated, also make sure all of the
RAM chips are properly seated, some the RAM chips in the A2091, may have
been lose or bad.
—
VJ >>ShowConfig in the tools drawer reports the additional 2 Meg of ram.
Any suggestions as to how to eliminate the red/brown screen?<<
Make sure the aditional RAM is listed by AVAIL, and the title bar of the
Workbaench screen. ShowConfig, may be listing what the board *claims* to
have, but not the what board has.
Also, a memory testing program may help. It could check the memory, to
see if any of the A2091's RAM is bad.
Ron.
– ap'ing with AP. (Eagles may fly, but weasels aren't sucked
into jet engines.)
Ron–
Thanks! More impressive information. 🙂
Gaads… I've been up so long I've lost track of what day it is and
what I've written where. I'm working two other bulletin boards in
addition to this forum in trying to get a handle on this ram problem.
Ok, I've figured out what the manufacturer and the product ID are.
I don't know exactly where product "10" is located but I'm sure it
has something to do with the ram chips on the 2091 because it wasn't
idetified before I moved the jumper pin.
In going back to the original owner's manual I've found that running
the old RAM TEST program will help me pinpoint a problem if there
is one. My system no longer has RAM TEST. I don't suppose it would
hurt to get it off the old floppies and try it out.
I've moved the jumper pin back to "0" for the time being and so
I'll move it back to "2" and test it out with the Ram Test program.
First I'll check out some other programs that folk have recommended
that might help me run a system check.
I don't feel so much pressure to resolve this particular ram problem
(the one with jumper pin being moved) since 16 chips for the 2630
have been ordered and should be here by Tuesday or earlier.
It's a strange sensation for me to say these numbers (ie 2091 and
2630, 514, 10, 3, 81, etc) and actually be able to make some sort of
info connection about them. It took me ages to learn the dif between
286, 288, 386 and 486 as I'm severely number impaired. <g>
Is there a conversion table around here for K to MB? If so, I'd
sure like to print it out.
Vicki …from an overcast day with threatening clouds.
VJ >>Is there a conversion table around here for K to MB? If so, I'd
sure like to print it out.<<
Sure. If you've ever worked with metrics, its easy.
The first number is the BIT, this is either 1 or 0. A bit is either ON or
OFF.
If you group 8 bits, you have a BYTE. Each bit, of a byte, may be refered
to as a NYBBLE of the whole byte.
Get it? A just bit, of a byte, is a nybble. 🙂
—
The BIT & the BYTE, are the base of number system used with computers.
A 'kilo' is a thousand, with 'mega' being 'thousand times a thousand' But
we are measuring in groups of 8, so a kilo becomes 1024, and mega becomes
1024*1024.
1 BIT = 1 BIT
8 BITs = 1 BYTE
1024 BITs = 1 Kilobit (Kb)
1024 Kb = 1 Megabit (Mb)
1024 Mb = 1 Gigabit (Gb)
1 BYTE = 1 BYTE = 8 bits
2 BYTEs = 1 WORD = 16 bits
4 BYTEs = 1 LONGWORD = 32 bits
The WORD & LONGWORD, are common to programs that work closely with the
hardware, and writing software.
—
A KiloByte (K or KB), is a thousand bytes, which is 1024 bytes. A
MegaByte is 1024*1204 bytes.
1024 BYTEs = 1 KiloByte (KB)
1024 KBs = 1 MegaByte (MB)
1024 MBs = 1 GigaByte (GB)
—
If it lists 4-megs, that is 4 times 1024 KB, equalling 4096 KB.
If an info box lists '33,554,432 bits', you can divide by 8, to convert it
into bytes, then divide by 1024, to convert to kilobytes. Then if
possible, you could divide again by 1024, the convert to megabytes.
33,554,432 bits /8 = 4,194,304 bytes
4,194,304 bytes /1024 = 4,096 kilobytes
4,096 KB /1024 = 4 megabytes
Ron.
– ap'ing with AP. (Eagles may fly, but weasels aren't sucked
into jet engines.)
I'm so glad Vicki is asking these question <G>. I'm a good mathematian but
I prefer your chart to using my poor brain, which needs to know so much to
run Ami.
Gracia, on AutoPilot from Cooleemee, NC
Good reply, but you need to go a tad further. We're into terabytes, now.
Robb