CompuServe Thread

#Power PC

12 messages in this thread
#103852From: James FranssenMay 25, 1994 3:25 AM
I am considering purchasing the new Power PC, or Power MAC, or whatever it is being called. As you can tell, I do not know much about its capabilities other than it is supposed to run 4 times faster than the fastest Mac. Since it is compatible with IBM, will I be able to use 3DSr3 on it effectively? How will 3DSr3 behave differently on the Power PC than my 486 32 meg ram PC I am running it on now? Also, what is so special about the Power PC? Is it faster than the Pentium? Or what? Thanks.
#103853From: Gus GrubbaMay 25, 1994 4:49 AM
No Power PC (so far) will run native x86 code. They can only do that through emulation which makes your zippy Power PC drag like a 8MHz 286. Note that I said 286, not even 386. That is because it cannot emulate protected mode 386/486 (much less Pentium) code. That makes it impossible to run 3D Studio. Also note that to be 4 times faster than the fastest Mac is only accomplished with applications generated specifically for it. Mac software running on Power PC isn't that fast. I'm not putting the Power PC down. Just pointing out the misconception about it (probably something done on purpose by Apple). If the stuff you use (other than 3D Studio) is available as Power PC applications, it will fly.
#103901From: Thomas O'DeaMay 25, 1994 11:17 AM
The first Power PC with an x86 instruction set native will be the 615. Originally, I'd heard the instruction set would be from a 486, but recently (in's at IBM) have hinted at a 586 instruction set, natively. This would allow the Power PC 615 to clock at essentially the same speed as a 100 mhz Pentium (this is not a fact, just an opinion) only with (from the early tests I've seen) much, much faster graphics capabilities… [GRIN!] More powerful than that however would be native Power PC 3D Studio… Some neat specs from Computer Shopper: Dell Omniplex 566 vs. Power Mac 7100/66 Dell Mac Adobe Photoshop, open 10.5 meg Tiff: 100.7s 16.7 (Mac figures are PowerPC Beta version) F.D. Painter, Apply Lighting: 367s 167s -YG: Any thoughts on Power PC's?
#104483From: JMH CommunicationsMay 27, 1994 11:27 PM
I run on both platforms. I have a PPC and a 486 dx2 66. I use the dos platform to run 3d programing, of course 3DS. The PPC is FAST, very fast. The trick is the native software. But Apple screwed itself when it tried to beat the pent. and release the PPC way to early. The operating sys (7) does not work well on the PPC. The correct sys. is Number 8 and that should be coming out soon. I use the Mac for almost everything except 3D. (electric Image is such a Joke, boy I will make a lot of friends for saying that) So, don't by a PPC to run DOS software stick to the enviorment it was written in. And by the way, emulation on the 8100 is not at 286. With soft windows I am able to keep up with or 386 machine with no problem. Jerry Housand
#104957From: krazy imagesMay 31, 1994 4:21 PM
>The trick is the native software. Of course it is! Do you think that PMacs were designed to run Intel and 68K apps? 🙂 >The operating sys (7) does not work well on the PPC. One thing is that it is not fully optimized or that the MacOS is not the right OS for a so advanced chip and other thing is to say that the PPC doesn't run OK with System 7. I am in the same situation as you, running to DEC XL with 64megs of RAM each for 3DS and an 8100/80 with 40Megs for 2D stuff. With all its flaws, the MacOS is a GREAT OS. It doesn't have preemptive multitasking and a microkernel (which is not needed and is always slower than a hardwired OS) but have such a great level of integration of the different components in the system that Windows, NT or OS/2 are JOKES compared to it (well, NT is not a good example to compare with). I really hope that Chicago will change a few things about this, though. What the Intel platform really needs in an real OS and not a fancy icon editor on top of a disk manager. ana /krazy images
#105051From: Thomas O'DeaJun 1, 1994 7:43 AM
Definitely not! I wouldn't buy a PPC until either A) AutoDesk announced full support, or B) Motorola came through with their hints of a perfect 586/PPC hybrid in the 615. Right now the Power PC is weak, although it seems to be more cooperative with the PCI bus than an Intel processor… I know how weak the emulator is… I sort of giggle when I hear it. But the hype I've heard is that soon it won't be so weak… hmm…
#105683From: krazy imagesJun 3, 1994 8:19 PM
Thomas, >Right now the Power PC is weak, Wow, that's a good one. Specially since in all our floating point tests, the PowerPC have beat the 90MHz Pentium with speeds nearly the 100% faster (with real applications not low level benchmarks). In interger operations… there is a mix of results, with the PowerPC 80MHz winning by a few seconds 60% of the time. BTW, I find stupid to buy a PowerMac or Power Personal computer to run Intel apps. If I want to run Intel apps I will run them in Intel chips (that's what I have DECs for 3DS). I understand that most people can't afford simultaneous platforms, though. However, I will never run Windows at 386/20MHz speed (not again! 🙂 Anyone has check prices comparing a good PC with one the 8100? Are we going to see a Compaq Pentium at 90MHz for $4000 (ethernet, 16bit sound, 1280×1024 24 bits accelerated video and all the stuff that you can find in the PowerMacs or the future Power Personals). I only will say one thing: I am dying for the Alpha version of 3DS because I want these Pentium prototypes (=Pentium 60MHz) out of my DEC boxes ASAP! ana /krazy (for leaving intel land) images
#105995From: Thomas O'DeaJun 6, 1994 8:25 AM
Re: Power PC is weak… I'm referring to it's extraordinary youth, and implying that three years from now you'll laugh at the 8100. I don't want to get tied up in PowerPC until it's "ready". (Don't ask what that means, that's why I put it in quotes.)
#104956From: krazy imagesMay 31, 1994 4:21 PM
Don't trust the rumors about the 615. According to everybody at the Power Personal Division it is just a Dvorak's dream. I don't trust them either <g> Seriously, I can't see the utility of buying a PPC system for running Intel apps. IMHO, of course 🙂 And it will be stupid to buy a Pmac to run apps in 68K emulation. The PMacs are speed demons. ANY, and I say any, current Pentium can't compare. I am squeezing the 8100 here, boys and girls :), and as time goes by, I am more and more impressed with the box. The guys at Madrid will test the 8100 against a bunch of Pentium 90MHz and even a 100MHz prototype from HP. Until now, the 80MHz 601 is winning hands down over 90MHz. So what is the bad point of the multicolored apple??? bingo! I can't find the folder that says Autodesk 3D Studio. Hate me, call me whatever you want, both Johns and the rest of the crowd, but old Ana is sold to PPC. IMHO, the architecture will beat any future Intel chip (unless they really switch to RISC and forget about current installed software). And the funny thing is that the Apple boxes are not optimized. Ha! If IBM and the rest of the gang do the right thing (yes, there is the tricky part! <g>) Intel will be history. However, this is pure speculation. Maybe Gus could forget his hate for the forbidden fruit for a moment and jump with something to support some of my points about how great PPC is 🙂 ana /krazy images
#104979From: ROBERT RITGERMay 31, 1994 6:34 PM
Ana: /__________From your message___________\\ Maybe Gus could forget his hate for the forbidden fruit for a moment and jump with something to support some of my points about how great PPC is 🙂 __________________________________________ Gus is in the process of moving so I don't think he'll be able to respond yet. I have not encountered a sole who compares to you in their emotional ties to computer chips. <G> In your treatise on the PowerPC you made no mention of your old favorite the DEC Alpha processor, what gives? Bob
#104987From: krazy imagesMay 31, 1994 7:27 PM
My enthusiasm for computer chips has a common denominator: a deep hate for Intel <g> Just kidding. The winner is always the faster and cheapest to me. Seriously, I like PPC because it is a reality an it is here. PPC will not die, nor Alpha, I am sure of that, and I think that these chips, not Intels, will be in the desk of computer animators using 3DS in the next years (my second surname is Dvorak <g>). Alpha is cool and MIPS is cool and PPC is cool, but look at PPC prices! Moreover, some big guys very tied to Intel are investigating the PPC as the alternative for their next generation of computers. Names that start with "C" and "D" (guess who 🙂 I have make today benchmarks between a HP 590c computer and the PowerPC 8100 (believe it or not, I am travelling with it on a awesome LightWare photography suitcase!). I will report results with WP, Shop, Pagemaker, Freehand and Illustrator in the next days. Right now, I only have the Painter 2.0 results (this benchmarks are very serious). The times relation in most tests is from 9:10 (winning the HP) to 10:7 (winning the PPC). HOWEVER, using the floating point unit gives very different results (Apply Lighting filter): 45 seconds in the 590, _25_ seconds the PPC (same images and options in the filter). Now I am waiting to see some serious app, like 3ds, ported to the Alpha. Then I will upgrade the XLs to Alpha and will say goodbye to Intel for ever. I can assure you that any other computer here in the future won't be Intel based. I have an idea in mind: people like the Yost Group are making word processor computers to feel and act as graphics workstations. What these nice guys could do if they decide to get a processor? (and that means RISC) ana /krazy images
#105004From: ROBERT RITGERMay 31, 1994 9:26 PM
Ana: /__________From your message___________\\ Now I am waiting to see some serious app, like 3ds, ported to the Alpha. Then I will upgrade the XLs to Alpha and will say goodbye to Intel for ever. __________________________________________ Now that's more like it! Bob