#Power PC
12 messages in this thread
I am considering purchasing the new Power PC, or Power MAC, or
whatever it is being called. As you can tell, I do not know much
about its capabilities other than it is supposed to run 4 times
faster than the fastest Mac. Since it is compatible with IBM, will I
be able to use 3DSr3 on it effectively? How will 3DSr3 behave
differently on the Power PC than my 486 32 meg ram PC I am running it
on now? Also, what is so special about the Power PC? Is it faster
than the Pentium? Or what? Thanks.
No Power PC (so far) will run native x86 code. They can only do that
through emulation which makes your zippy Power PC drag like a 8MHz
286. Note that I said 286, not even 386. That is because it cannot
emulate protected mode 386/486 (much less Pentium) code. That makes
it impossible to run 3D Studio. Also note that to be 4 times faster
than the fastest Mac is only accomplished with applications generated
specifically for it. Mac software running on Power PC isn't that
fast. I'm not putting the Power PC down. Just pointing out the
misconception about it (probably something done on purpose by Apple).
If the stuff you use (other than 3D Studio) is available as Power PC
applications, it will fly.
The first Power PC with an x86 instruction set native will be
the 615. Originally, I'd heard the instruction set would be from a
486, but recently (in's at IBM) have hinted at a 586 instruction set,
natively. This would allow the Power PC 615 to clock at essentially
the same speed as a 100 mhz Pentium (this is not a fact, just an
opinion) only with (from the early tests I've seen) much, much faster
graphics capabilities… [GRIN!]
More powerful than that however would be native Power PC 3D
Studio…
Some neat specs from Computer Shopper:
Dell Omniplex 566 vs. Power Mac 7100/66
Dell Mac
Adobe Photoshop, open 10.5 meg Tiff: 100.7s 16.7
(Mac figures are PowerPC Beta version)
F.D. Painter, Apply Lighting: 367s 167s
-YG: Any thoughts on Power PC's?
I run on both platforms. I have a PPC and a 486 dx2 66. I use the dos
platform to run 3d programing, of course 3DS. The PPC is FAST, very
fast. The trick is the native software. But Apple screwed itself when
it tried to beat the pent. and release the PPC way to early. The
operating sys (7) does not work well on the PPC. The correct sys. is
Number 8 and that should be coming out soon. I use the Mac for almost
everything except 3D. (electric Image is such a Joke, boy I will
make a lot of friends for saying that) So, don't by a PPC to run DOS
software stick to the enviorment it was written in. And by the way,
emulation on the 8100 is not at 286. With soft windows I am able to
keep up with or 386 machine with no problem. Jerry Housand
>The trick is the native software.
Of course it is! Do you think that PMacs were designed to run Intel and 68K
apps? 🙂
>The operating sys (7) does not work well on the PPC.
One thing is that it is not fully optimized or that the MacOS is not the right
OS for a so advanced chip and other thing is to say that the PPC doesn't run OK
with System 7.
I am in the same situation as you, running to DEC XL with 64megs of RAM each
for 3DS and an 8100/80 with 40Megs for 2D stuff. With all its flaws, the MacOS
is a GREAT OS. It doesn't have preemptive multitasking and a microkernel (which
is not needed and is always slower than a hardwired OS) but have such a great
level of integration of the different components in the system that Windows, NT
or OS/2 are JOKES compared to it (well, NT is not a good example to compare
with). I really hope that Chicago will change a few things about this, though.
What the Intel platform really needs in an real OS and not a fancy icon editor
on top of a disk manager.
ana /krazy images
Definitely not! I wouldn't buy a PPC until either A) AutoDesk
announced full support, or B) Motorola came through with their hints of a
perfect 586/PPC hybrid in the 615. Right now the Power PC is weak, although it
seems to be more cooperative with the PCI bus than an Intel processor…
I know how weak the emulator is… I sort of giggle when I hear it.
But the hype I've heard is that soon it won't be so weak… hmm…
Thomas,
>Right now the Power PC is weak,
Wow, that's a good one. Specially since in all our floating point tests, the
PowerPC have beat the 90MHz Pentium with speeds nearly the 100% faster (with
real applications not low level benchmarks). In interger operations… there is
a mix of results, with the PowerPC 80MHz winning by a few seconds 60% of the
time.
BTW, I find stupid to buy a PowerMac or Power Personal computer to run Intel
apps. If I want to run Intel apps I will run them in Intel chips (that's what I
have DECs for 3DS). I understand that most people can't afford simultaneous
platforms, though. However, I will never run Windows at 386/20MHz speed (not
again! 🙂
Anyone has check prices comparing a good PC with one the 8100? Are we going to
see a Compaq Pentium at 90MHz for $4000 (ethernet, 16bit sound, 1280×1024 24
bits accelerated video and all the stuff that you can find in the PowerMacs or
the future Power Personals).
I only will say one thing: I am dying for the Alpha version of 3DS because I
want these Pentium prototypes (=Pentium 60MHz) out of my DEC boxes ASAP!
ana /krazy (for leaving intel land) images
Re: Power PC is weak…
I'm referring to it's extraordinary youth, and implying that three
years from now you'll laugh at the 8100. I don't want to get tied up in
PowerPC until it's "ready". (Don't ask what that means, that's why I put it in
quotes.)
Don't trust the rumors about the 615. According to everybody at the Power
Personal Division it is just a Dvorak's dream. I don't trust them either <g>
Seriously, I can't see the utility of buying a PPC system for running Intel
apps. IMHO, of course 🙂 And it will be stupid to buy a Pmac to run apps in 68K
emulation.
The PMacs are speed demons. ANY, and I say any, current Pentium can't compare.
I am squeezing the 8100 here, boys and girls :), and as time goes by, I am more
and more impressed with the box. The guys at Madrid will test the 8100 against
a bunch of Pentium 90MHz and even a 100MHz prototype from HP. Until now, the
80MHz 601 is winning hands down over 90MHz.
So what is the bad point of the multicolored apple??? bingo! I can't find the
folder that says Autodesk 3D Studio.
Hate me, call me whatever you want, both Johns and the rest of the crowd, but
old Ana is sold to PPC. IMHO, the architecture will beat any future Intel chip
(unless they really switch to RISC and forget about current installed
software). And the funny thing is that the Apple boxes are not optimized. Ha!
If IBM and the rest of the gang do the right thing (yes, there is the tricky
part! <g>) Intel will be history. However, this is pure speculation.
Maybe Gus could forget his hate for the forbidden fruit for a moment and jump
with something to support some of my points about how great PPC is 🙂
ana /krazy images
Ana:
/__________From your message___________\\
Maybe Gus could forget his hate for the forbidden fruit for a moment and jump
with something to support some of my points about how great PPC is 🙂
__________________________________________
Gus is in the process of moving so I don't think he'll be able to respond yet.
I have not encountered a sole who compares to you in their emotional ties to
computer chips. <G> In your treatise on the PowerPC you made no mention of your
old favorite the DEC Alpha processor, what gives?
Bob
My enthusiasm for computer chips has a common denominator: a deep hate for
Intel <g> Just kidding. The winner is always the faster and cheapest to me.
Seriously, I like PPC because it is a reality an it is here. PPC will not die,
nor Alpha, I am sure of that, and I think that these chips, not Intels, will be
in the desk of computer animators using 3DS in the next years (my second
surname is Dvorak <g>). Alpha is cool and MIPS is cool and PPC is cool, but
look at PPC prices! Moreover, some big guys very tied to Intel are
investigating the PPC as the alternative for their next generation of
computers. Names that start with "C" and "D" (guess who 🙂
I have make today benchmarks between a HP 590c computer and the PowerPC 8100
(believe it or not, I am travelling with it on a awesome LightWare photography
suitcase!). I will report results with WP, Shop, Pagemaker, Freehand and
Illustrator in the next days. Right now, I only have the Painter 2.0 results
(this benchmarks are very serious). The times relation in most tests is from
9:10 (winning the HP) to 10:7 (winning the PPC). HOWEVER, using the floating
point unit gives very different results (Apply Lighting filter): 45 seconds in
the 590, _25_ seconds the PPC (same images and options in the filter).
Now I am waiting to see some serious app, like 3ds, ported to the Alpha. Then I
will upgrade the XLs to Alpha and will say goodbye to Intel for ever. I can
assure you that any other computer here in the future won't be Intel based.
I have an idea in mind: people like the Yost Group are making word processor
computers to feel and act as graphics workstations. What these nice guys could
do if they decide to get a processor? (and that means RISC)
ana /krazy images
Ana:
/__________From your message___________\\
Now I am waiting to see some serious app, like 3ds, ported to the Alpha. Then
I will upgrade the XLs to Alpha and will say goodbye to Intel for ever.
__________________________________________
Now that's more like it!
Bob