CompuServe Thread

#PAR&TargaNTSC Distortion

7 messages in this thread
#104656From: Randy JacksonMay 29, 1994 1:46 PM
Hello to all, We 've had our new PAR\TCBIV for about a week now and it is fantastic! It is installed in a Gateway2000 4DX2-66V, 32meg RAM, w\ Micrpolis 2217A. My NTSC monitors are a Magnavox combination VCR/13" screen, and a Philips 31" TV. Both are around 1 year old. The 13" mantains a very high resolution and is comparable to our new Sony Trinitron 31". The Philips resolution basically stinks but if I can achieve an acceptable result on it the rest is cake & pie. The problem – our images are distorting when viewed through the PAR, Almost full screen at the bottom of the TV screen and narrower at the top of the screen. This narrowing phenomena only happens on the right side of the TV screens. The right side of the image is about 1/2 inch from the edge of the screen at top and the bottom on the higher resolution screens and about an 1\8 of an inch from the right side at the bottom of the screen and 1\2 inch at the top on the lower res screen. Also, when there is a moderate to extreme horizontal light transition in the image from the PAR, the verticle edges of the screen are distorted inward and continue to the top of the screen from the line where the light changes from dark to lighter. This happens on both verticle sides of the TV monitors. The greater the light transition from dark to light the greater the distortion. This distortion is reproduced on all the monitors as well as the tape recording. A real life example is this- We are animating a manufacturing process. The area where the machines are located is illuminated by floresent lights hung from the ceiling about 3\4 of the floor to ceiling highth distance from the floor. At the factory the work area is bright while the area above the lights is dark. We would like to reproduce this effect. Reducing the light transition solves extreme distotion problems but the diagonal "squinching" at the top of the TV monitor is always there. The Targa board produces these undesired affects to a lessor degree,( not as squinched or distoted by light diferences ), but are not within the viewing area when overscan is on. The Targa card is installed in a different computer, same brand and configuration as stated above. I understand Genlock in theory, but in practice I'm not sure I have everything connected correctly or my settings right. The PAR genlock is set to internal, the horizontal position is set to .069us, and the subcarrier is set to 90deg, the default. I have experimented with these settings, does'nt change anything in respect this problem. Have also disconnected the TCBIV but this has no effect either way. The monitors are connected to the NTSC\Composite port on the PAR. I have checked the dB output and it is 7dB, have attenuated this to 1dB and amplified to 10 dB, no change. I could probably live with this development if I could produce the overscan results on the PAR as with the Targa. I havn't found that option available on the PAR if there is one. Anybody know if it is? Anyway, does anyone know what causes this sqinching and distortion? Is there a solution? I've thought about having the TVs calibrated but the distortion occures with any recording device that we use so I havn't done that. Thanks for putting up with this long winded explanation. Randy Jackson ComWorks Communications, Inc. Lexington, Kentucky
#104666From: John EllisMay 29, 1994 2:57 PM
Randy, What you are encountering is very peculiar indeed, if one discounts the monitors as the culprit. I have worked many years with Targa's and have not seen this phenomena. I can also attest to the fact that on my PAR I do not encounter this problem in the least. I think from your description that the distortion is as a result of your monitors. The only other thing I can think is that you have a strong magnetic field somewhere, maybe caused by a VCR on a monitor or ? I work with a broadcast monitor to check both Composite and CAV outputs. I have an EVO-9650 for VTR previews which is connected to both Composite from the Targa and SVHS from the PAR. Looks very good indeed. So I suspect the monitors and or a magnetic field somewhere in proximity to the Monitors. Problems like this can drive you nuts, I wish I had a better answer. -JE
#104676From: Randy JacksonMay 29, 1994 4:47 PM
Thanks John, I enjoy reading your responses in this forum and appreciate your quick response. The problem is solved and I will paste the solution below. It was solved in the 3DS section under" Render Switching". I thought these two problems were separate and probably are but rendering to NULL let 3DS3 render to the full 752×480 res and pushed all the distortion out of view. YEAH!!! <Thank You David. Rendering to NULL did the trick. It took care of the problem I posted to the Hware\Opsys\Video section also. We design and install CATV systems and have run into some pretty strange magnetic induction effects and I was hoping that this wasn't one of them. (See-PAR NTSC Distortion in the Hware\OpSys\Video section.)>
#104678From: John EllisMay 29, 1994 4:56 PM
Randy, Glad there was a simple fix. From your description it sounded like only certain portions of the screen where distorted. Thanks to David for seeing the obvious. <g> >> some pretty strange magnetic induction effects and I was hoping that this wasn't one of them. << Me too, glad it wasn't. 🙂 -JE
#104746From: Don LandisMay 30, 1994 10:46 AM
>> Also, when there is a moderate to extreme horizontal light transition in the image from the PAR, the verticle edges of the screen are distorted inward and continue to the top of the screen from the line where the light changes from dark to lighter. This happens on both verticle sides of the TV monitors. The greater the light transition from dark to light the greater the distortion. The distortion you are seeing at the top edge of the picture could be caused by over driven video. In a simple setup like the PAR or targa+ I would start by looking at the termination resistance. In a composite signal the sync would also be over driven. Be sure it's 75 ohms. An unusually high resistance could cause this distortion to occur. Other causes are erratic horizontal sync, but unlikely given the simplicity of your setup. Bending of the rectangular portions of the video raster are usually sync related. If you had a WFM, check out the front and back porches of the signal, the blanking and integrety of the burst. There might be some mis adjustment causing video/burst to interfere with the horizontal sync. Just moving your aspect ratio to overscan the problem is like putting a blindfold on. It does not cure the sync problem which will magnify when you dupe your work. In editing we use monitors designed to expose even the slightest problems to correct them early on. Good luck.
#104970From: Randy JacksonMay 31, 1994 5:13 PM
Don, Thank you very much. We have made some adjustments to the wiring confiuration and things have improved considerably. As humiliating as this is I'm going to post what we were doing here for all to see. We were using a Y-type RCA adaptor cord to split the signal to the two monitors. ( large red palm print now on foreheads). The resistance was 40.1ohms. I know better than to do this type of thing. There is a pattern forming here. As we get more involved with the "finer" points of professional animation, watching the sun rise, deadlines, marketing, materials and lighting techniques etc… we seem to be forgetting the fundamentals. Thanks again for the very excellent help. Randy
#105172From: Don LandisJun 1, 1994 5:38 PM
Very good Randy. I know the scene very well. Just this morning I got a panicked call from a local video post house that has been without an engineer for two years now. Budget cuts, mean and lean business philosophy stuff. They had all sorts of complaints lately about audio buzzes and hum, video that looks sick, and graphics that gets lost off the screen. I must have removed about a $100 worth of radio shack Y adapters and 93 ohm terminators from their system. Now their VO talent doesn't sound like hees talking with a clothespin on his nose. <G> I've got about two days of work there to get everything back in alignment. Trouble is their editor, and two cameramen have discovered the H-phase and sc phase trim pots through the tiny holes in their TBC's and have worn them out tinkering. That should be good for a half day of TBC repair too.