#Best 3D Package By FAR!
46 messages in this thread
ALL,
I was thinking of getting the new Caligari24. With is's support of the
A4000 I thought it would be the way to go. I'd like to hear what you have
to say comparing Imagine to Caligari24. I also have my eye on Aladin4D and
Playmation. Any information/opinions you can share would be greatly
appreciated!
Thank you,
Steven Walters –70524,634
Steve,
I have been looking at Aladdin and Real3D, but haven't made up my mind yet.
I was hoping to get some feedback from the experienced users in the forum.
Maybe we can get a discussion going on what people feel is the best all
around package around package? How about it folks? Chris Cox
Fpor the BEST Modeler around I vote for Imagine 3D.Tho the lack of a
Decent Modeler(In MY opinion) in the other packages is no longer such a
big deal since the release of Vertex.I've used the Demo Version of Vertex
and liked it quite a bit but since I already own Imagine and know most of
it's functions I'll stick with it.
Peter,
Thanks for the feedback. I didn't know about Vertex, so I'll give that a
look see. Comments that I've gotten from outside Compuserve, indicate that
Aladdin has been very well recieved, but I don't know if it just for the a
animation end of things, or the entire modeling and animation package. Im
Imagine is the only one I know of so far, from reviews and comments, that
is general fair to good all the way around. I wish AC and AW would start
being a little more specific in thier reviews. They tend to dwell on the
good, and not even mention the poor, unless it is a direct
package-to-packageg comparison, in which case they almost always say to buy
both! I just found AVID, maybe they have better reviews – thier tips are
certainly better. Real feedback from REAL USERS, is the best way to go. It
certainly has been helping me out.
Chris Cox
Chris—>>>
You might also try getting A/Video(it's not the same mag as AVid)
and/or Video Toaster User from the same blokes that do AVid.
Only Complaint I've heard on Alladin 4D is the modeler is supposed to be
weak.BTW if you have the $$$ I'd also take a look at Videografix
Today(formerly Toast and Coffee) a Video Tape Based "Magazine"
BTW that A/Video I mentioned above is NOT Amiga specific.It gives info on
all DTV goodies/platforms.
Chris,
What is Real3D all about?
Yes, It would be nice if everyone wold chime in in support of their
favorite package explaning the benefits of each. Maybe we could get a great
thread (suitable for uploading to the library) to help users getting a
3D-package that does what they need from real users not advertisers.
–Steven Walters
Steve,
As far as I can tell, Real3D was originally supposed to be a 3D modeler
with some animation capability. According to the reviews, it originated in
Europe, and has gotten fair to good marks on the modeling when compared to
Imagine. The animation part has not gotten good marks, however, after
using th using the demo version, I don't know if the reviewers actually
tried doing an animation sequence, or just played with it. That's why I
was ho hoping to get feedback from REAL users. For Real3D it may be
academic, because even though it is now the cheapest – $179 – package that
supports DCTV, I've been getting some feedback that says that Imagine and
Aladdin are the choices to go with. Aladdin has apparently been a hot
seller with Toaster Toaster types, and Imagine is a common, capable
package. Anyone who would li like to make further comments, please do!
Chris Cox
Why in the world would Toaster users be interested in Aladdin? Lightwave
is the very best in 3D software.
Beats me! Maybe something about it is easier to use… I wouldn't know,
since I've never used Lightwave either…So many packages, so little
time… and money.
Chris Cox
Lightwave is the best rendering engine and scene layout s/w IMHO,
but the modeler kinda sucks. I find it very difficult to use so I
am always interested in new s/w. I use Vertex for modeling and for
the price its a much better modeler than LW.
Hopefully the LW modeler will be re-vamped and will be as intuitive as
the layout s/w, in the newer Pro vers.
Later
Paul,
I have Lightwave and still use Aladdin for somethings because it is easier
and faster. It also has gases and surface morphing available. In addition
to creating DCTV anims directly.
I don't quite uderstand gases, sort of free form like?
Gases are areas defined by a single polygon (rectangle) they can then be
shaped by texture maps. They are great for creating suns, planet
atmosphers, galaxies, flames, rocket flares, etc. You can control the
color, density, turbulance, and definition of the gas. You can also
animate the changes or the textures over time. The turbulance can also be
of a different color and density than the main gas. The gas is true 3
dimensional volume and not just texture onto the surface of a shape.
What makes Alladin 4D's Gaseous objects so much better than Imagines Fog
objects?
I haven't worked directly with Imagines Fog objects so can't say. Though
several people at my Graphics SIG who are Imagine users say the fog
objects have numerous problems and they rarely use them.
The problem with imagines fog objects are that they do not work! Actually
they do work until you try to use a backdrop image in your animation and
then they go 100% transperant. Since I use backdrop images extensively
this was a major shortcoming.
Patrick
Could you find out what "PROBLEMS" they have had?I haven't founbd any
problems with Imagines FOG objects or their Global Fog.I have se Fog
Objects as Engine Exhaust on occasion with good results IMHO.
Wow!
I didn't know about the gasses, I just gotta have it now, thanks.
–Paul
I am ASSumming you have Aladdin 4D:
How much does it slow down rendering when you add a gas object? I was told
by some that use it that it does slow it down but they couldn't tell me
how much. I was also told that you couldn't go `thru' a gas object, they
have to wait till next version.
Does it have other kind of procedural textures that can add turbulance? I
am a Imagine user and was going to buy Aladdin but I am going to wait a
while (Imagine 3.0) before I buy anything else (if I do).
<<< Tony D. Tracer >>>
Yes I have Aladdin 4D. It does slow down the rendering but I'm not sure
how much. You can go through a gas it just doesn't show up once the camera
is inside the defined volume :-(.
Hi Robert —
I'm curious about how the gases work — you mentioned that it's based on a
single polygon, but later said that it's a true 3D volume, not a
texture-mapped surface. Could you elaborate? Thanks!
Robert,
I picked up on this thread, very late… Which 3d pkge are you referring
to?
C.Julson—->via Whap
Alladin 4D
Robert,
Thanks,
C.Julson—->via Whap
Steve,
I've had Caligari's Free Form Deformation objects explained to me at the
CSS '92. What they do is place a box around an object you designed which
you can subdivide at will. You can then pull around on the control points
of the box and deformate organically the object contained within. (Did
ANYONE understand this?)
I've been using Imagine from the very beginning and think it's a fantastic
program. I'd give my left arm for FFDOs though!
Tom / Amiga Imagineer from Switzerland with AutoPilot engaged
The only thing is . . . the Caligari free-form deform function is ONLY
available on the Caligari Broadcast version (around 1.8k). The demo tapes
that go with the Caligari 2 package are PROFOUNDLY MISLEADING in their
inclusion of this function.
It is also of crucial importance to let you know that Caligari 2 has
absolutely NO SUPPORT for heirarchial animation. Caligari 2 also does not
support 24bit image formats.
I bought it. I played with it. Caligari 2 is worthless.
Jim Roof (Video Graphics Associates)
p.s. If I have not convinced you, I will sell my copy, lock, stock and
barrel for you to find out!
Jim,
I WAS referring to the Broadcast Version. I agree that the crippled one
isn't worthwhile. Plus, as far as I know, the Broadcast version does not
support any path animation, that and its price being the main reasons why
I'm still using Imagine. But the interactive perspective view modelling is
just fantastic!
Tom / Amiga Imagineer from Switzerland with AutoPilot engaged
Jim,
I second your opinion of Caligari 2. Not terribly useful, IMO.
However, they are advertising Caligari 24, an update to the last consumer
release. Do you know anything about this? Possibly, is there 24 bit
support and deforms?
Jonathan, via AutoPilot // Only Amiga makes
\\// it possible…
Jim,
Dosen't Caligari24 address these shortcommings?
–Steven Walters
I'm not sure if it does or not. If it is the same version that is shipped
with the GVP ImpactVision card then I understand that it does support the
24bit IFF standard but remains the same elsewhere. I read a review of the
GVP version (it was called Caligari24) and it said it was nice for "free"
bundled software but not so good for the serious user. I may not be on the
money on this, but I would want to see it run before purchasing it. No
doubt about it.
I agree,Caligari is a bit o Crud.I have the ORIGINAL Broadcast version and
I was NOT Amused.
Steven,
I have used Aladdin for about a year now (since it was Dras 4-D Pro). I
found that it was the easiest to get the hang of (tried Imagine 2.0 but
the learning curve was just to steep for my patience.) The only trouble
with Aladdin is the manual. The manual for Draw 4-D Pro was great as
series of tutorials that when you finished totally covered the program.
The texture capabilites of Aladdin are great you can even do surface
morphing which Lightwave won't even do yet. If you have DCTV the other
great thing is Aladdin supports it directly – both renders to it and
creates anims. The other great thing about Aladdin is the support from
Adspec. They are very help on the phone and the quarterly newsletter you
can subscribe to for $36 is the greatest value going. Each issue is full
of tutorials, tips and ideas. All of the issues last year were accompanied
by a disk that de-compressed to 3 disks of drawings (objects), animations,
textures, and fonts – a bargain. Later tonite I will be uploading a sample
frame from an animation I'm working on for a corporate video.
—Robert—
I second all of these great comments about Aladdin and Adspec – mike
Great to hear Mike. Do you have any images or anims you could upload. It
bugs me that all the stuff you find in the file sections are Imagine or
Lightwave. Also I'd love to hear any tips you have learned.
–Robert–
Robert,
What formats does Aladdin support? I know about the PDraw, EPS, DCTV and
24 bit stuff, but what about object model formats. Does it handle S4D,
Imagine, or Lightwave formats. As long as it will read one of these, I am
likely going to get it.
Chris Cox
Chris,
It will read >.GEO files; not sure it it will only handle Videoscape .GEO,
or if it will import other kinds.
Jonathan, via AutoPilot // Only Amiga makes
\\// it possible…
Jonathan,
Thanks for the info. From what else I've heard, that's the ONLY object for
format it takes….
Chris Cox
If Alladin handles GEO objects thats fine for me.Interchange will do the
Conversion for me quite nicely.
Chris, I have been using Real 3D for several months and have been very
happy with the modeler it uses. Absolutely the easiest and fastest I have
used and that is very important to me. I have yet to see another modeler
that can have the different objects displayed in different colors in the
modeling editor. This makes scene visualization a breeze. The animation
functions are limited but adequate for what I use it for. The version 2.0
should be out soon with some amazing features. I bet the price will
increase a bit though.
John
Chris,
Aladdin will read and save the .geo format ( believe that is Videoscape?).
I have succesfully converted Imagine and Lightwave objects using Pixel 3D
or Vertex to convert them to .geo then loaded them into Aladdin.
Supposedly Pixel 3D Pro will support the Aladdin (Draw4D) format directly.
—Robert—
Robert,Thanx for the mini-view of Alladin 4D.I may have to buy it just to
see how it stacks up.Who knows I may give up Imagine for it.
Can Alladin 4D import objects made for other prg's?
Peter,
It will read and save .geo format objects. You can use Pixel 3d or Vertex
to convert other formats to .geo then read them into Aladdin.
—Robert—
Thanx for the info on Alladin's Model format.My Interchange prg from
Syndesis also handles GEO models.
Anyone using Playmation? I've seen demos, but haven't heard from anyone
actually using it.
Pluses: Splines; soft-body deformations; all-in-one package; cheap price;
multi-platform app & files (Amiga, Mac, & PC, but no muscle machines).
Minuses: Fully-interpolating splines (harder to edit than Beziers); no
spline output (must use its own renderer or export as polygons); reported
interface problems; misleading price (at least for the Mac — base package
does not include variable-resolution renders or texture map placement); ray
tracer.
These are my impressions — do you have more reliable comments?