CompuServe Thread

#Walk-throughs & fly-bys

32 messages in this thread
#11495From: Ken SmithMay 6, 1995 2:23 AM
Hi! Is any one using trueSpace for walk-throughs and fly-bys for architects? I am sort of being volunteered into it and I would like to discuss the problems involved. Ken
#11558From: ken leeMay 6, 1995 11:52 PM
HI, I am doing some walkthrough. What kind of building are you doing now? Ken
#11598From: Ken SmithMay 7, 1995 4:15 PM
Hi, I am not doing any buildings right now.! BUT a couple of architect friends of mine are starting a company to make 3D models from architects drawings. Their idea is that I could then take these images and animate them into walk-throughs and fly-bys. They are mainly concerned with large projects, like airports. Some of their work will be for competitions. I would like to get some idea of what I'm in for. Which software to use? How much work there is in re-applying textures etc. since I understand that DXF files do not contain texture information. What sort of things do you do? Ken
#11646From: ken leeMay 8, 1995 8:16 AM
Hi, I am doing a walking through for a Japanese architect. It is a 5500 sf residential building. I am using TrueSpace for the project. However, if you want to use ray-tracing for the walkthrough, the time of rendering is very long. It is about 30 min/ frame for my project (320X240). Ray tracing will give you a very nice light reflection, shadows or pool water reflection. I had heard that Truespace is slow in redering. I don't know if that is true. I only had used Visual Reality and TrueSpace so far. I am waiting for my 3D- Studio comming. However, TS 2.0 may be much faster. Ken
#11727From: Ken SmithMay 9, 1995 3:33 AM
Ken, You are just the man I was hoping to meet! How is the archiect giving you the files? Are you getting .DXF's with the textures as seperate .TGA files? How are you finding re-applying the textures? Are they giving you nice colour prints to help you? What machine are you using? Actually 30 min for a raytraced image does not sound so bad. I know lots of people are reluctant to use raytracing because of the time taken to render. Are you just going to give an .AVI file or are you going to go to a video? Do you like 3DS? I have seen lots of demos, but the program looks about as user friendly as a tax inspector. I want to see how tS 2 works out before I start worring about alternative software. Actually my biggest gripes about tS is its lack of hidden line, which seems to be solved by solid modelling in 2, and the amount of time it takes to navigate around an object. But I think that I am going to have to be _really_ desperate before I get down to 3DS. Ken
#11738From: Rob BryertonMay 9, 1995 8:25 AM
>> demos, but the program looks about as user friendly as a tax inspector<< <VBG> :^) Rob
#11789From: Ken SmithMay 10, 1995 1:47 AM
Thought someone would like that…. BTW I down loaded your exploder, nice piece of work, next time I go into Paris I'll get you a $15 money order from Amex, I could send you a check in francs but it might confuse your bank. TTYL…..Ken
#11750From: ken leeMay 9, 1995 12:27 PM
Hi, The archiect give me the paper drawing. I started from drawing on the AutoCAD and import it to TrueSpace. In AutoCAD, you can maker layer and apply material to each layers in TrueSpace. It is not hard to apply the materials to the DXF. The project I was or am doing only need 30 min to apply the materials. Making the paths for walking through takes longer. I already finished around 10000 frames of animation, but I accidently erased the hard drive while trying to install OS2. Fortunately, the 10000 frames is on other hard drive, but I lost the animation paths and materials. I can also render any sence on the building and print it on my Canon Bubble jet 600 with driver from SuperPrint. It gave me very nice print out. I will upload one frame to the forum, if i figure it out how to do it. This has been alot of fun for me. Specially the building is designed by a famous Japanese architect. I am waiting for my 3D studio shipping in next week. Maybe I will find something more interesting than TrueSpace. I like TS alot , but the time redering in ray tracing takes a little too long. Hope I answered your question:) Ken
#11808From: MatthewMay 10, 1995 9:21 AM
Well, if you're an experienced TS user and you are getting 3DS, then I expect you are the perfect person to give us your impressions of the pros and cons of the two programs. When your done evaluating 3DS I would appreciate your comparison of the two programs. -Matt
#11813From: ken leeMay 10, 1995 12:54 PM
Just got my 3DS today. will do that. Ken
#11850From: Terry Cotant[RSS]May 10, 1995 10:41 PM
>> Well, if you're an experienced TS user and you are getting 3DS, then I expect you are the perfect person to give us your impressions of the pros and cons of the two programs. When your done evaluating 3DS I would appreciate your comparison of the two programs. Especially since he may literally be the first person to go in that direction, instead of the opposite! <g>
#11751From: ken leeMay 9, 1995 12:37 PM
Hi again, I didn't answer all in the last message. I am using P90/ 32meg/Fast Scsi 2 hard drive. I have Miro DC1 video capturing and output to video. The 4x sampling in TS helps alot to export to video tape. Actually, I like to have 3D Studio for windows NT, but I have to buy it now for Student Discount price. I have not recieved my copy yet, so don't know if I will like it. However, I had heard alot nice things about it and it is widely used in the industry. Ken
#11787From: Ken SmithMay 10, 1995 1:47 AM
Thanks Ken, It all sounds a lot less painful than I feared it would, architects being such strange people……… Actually your system sounds much like mine, except that I have not added a video capture/output yet, I'll get round to that in the after the summer is out of the way. BTW I am confused about your comments on 3DS, its a dos program, as far as I know there are no other versions planned, so you would probally have a long wait for a Win NT version. TTYL….Ken
#11795From: Ian FirthMay 10, 1995 4:58 AM
>BTW I am confused about your comments on 3DS, its a dos program, as far as I know there are no other versions >planned, so you would probally have a long wait for a Win NT version. 3DS 5 will be Win NT…
#11799From: Rob BryertonMay 10, 1995 8:23 AM
>>3DS 5 will be Win NT…<< That should prove to be _very_ interesting. I wonder if they'll give the interface a (much needed) overhaul. Any rumors on a release date? I've always stayed away from 3DS because I prefer Windows programs, and also because the interface looked like about a million programmers put it together. Rob
#11827From: Ian FirthMay 10, 1995 4:07 PM
I would expect it to look like AutoCad 13 for Windows, tool palette style stuff. As for a date I heard Winter mentioned, but I don't know if that was 95 or 96… Regards, Ian
#11910From: Ken SmithMay 11, 1995 5:05 PM
Ah, now that is news……I wonder what they will do, a complete rewrite or just a shell. Ken
#11796From: ken leeMay 10, 1995 7:00 AM
3DS is only a dos program. By the time, when 3DS NT is out, I would no longer be able to buy it for student dicount. That is why I am buying it now. good luck on your new company. love to hear more about it. Ken
#11909From: Ken SmithMay 11, 1995 5:05 PM
Thanks Ken, I will keep you informed on how things progress. It is looking good right now I should get my first project from them in the next week or so. Good luck with 3DS. Do please let me konw how you get on with 3DExpress. Ken
#11940From: ken leeMay 12, 1995 11:58 AM
Good luck on the project. I think It will be alot of fun. Ken
#11849From: Terry Cotant[RSS]May 10, 1995 10:38 PM
>> However, TS 2.0 may be much faster. Plus, you can chose which frames to ray trace, and which to simply scan-line..
#11895From: ken leeMay 11, 1995 12:20 PM
While still waiting for TS2.0 to come, TS 1.04 is still slow for ray tracing.
#11593From: R C McDougleMay 7, 1995 1:58 PM
Ken, I'm about to start on a walk through that would have animated objects in it. I haven't done anything like this before and would love dialog about the process. I haven't played much with the animation in TS yet, (mostly work with still renderings) so I don't even know if what I want to do is possible. The project is an interior renovation and I would like to start the animation in the elevator, and walk through reception into the main conference room with assorted glances to the side. The animation would consist of various doors opening to admit the viewer, with a projection screen descending from the ceiling as the lights go down and a slide of the clients name coming on screen to finish. I'm looking for a fairly high level of detail in the rendering and expect the whole show to be less than a minuite long. Does anyone have thoughts or general advice to offer?? Thanks, Robb
#11621From: Ian FirthMay 7, 1995 11:04 PM
Robb, What you describe is fairly simple. The camera movement is easy, just draw a path you want it to follow. tS can animate as many objects as you want, wherever, and whenever you want, so the doors and projector are a snap. The client image on the screen will have to be done with trickery though. It will need to be off camera until it is needed, and then moved into place in one frame (via animation) to give the illusion of popping up on the screen (tS 2.0 will allow animated textures, giving you the ability to actually display an AVI on the screen). >I'm looking for a fairly high level of detail in the rendering and expect the whole show to be less than a minuite long. > Does anyone have thoughts or general advice to offer?? Plan on many hours of detailed modeling and texturing… and make sure you have a free Gig or 2 on your hard drive. A good AVI editing program (Premiere, RAZOR…) would help in putting together a quality finished product. Regards, Ian
#11658From: R C McDougleMay 8, 1995 12:00 PM
Ian, >>The client image on the screen will have to be done with trickery though.<< It never occurred to me that this part would be tricky. Maybe my whole conference room sequence is questionable. A major point of the animation is to convice some in the clients company that it is worth spending a lot extra for some James Bond like technology for disappearing the windows (5) in the conference room. In the animation, The viewer would take his seat and look toward a corner of the room where 2 or 3 windows would be visible with a great daytime view of the NY skyline outside. A button is pushed (off screen) and hidden panels/doors begin to move out from behind fixed wall panels to close up the window openings and cut off the daylight illumination in the room (3 to 5 secs). Once the windows are covered and the daylight has FADED, the artificial lighting (wallwashers and down lighting on the table top) would FADE down as the projection screen descends; after which the slide image FADES up onscreen. This needs to have great dramatic effect or the concept is lost, and the animation is close to worthless. Is this sequence possible or should I just work on my song and dance routine?<G> Robb
#11669From: Ian FirthMay 8, 1995 4:00 PM
Robb, > Once the windows are covered and the daylight has FADED, the artificial lighting (wallwashers and down lighting >on the table top) would FADE down as the projection screen descends; after which the slide image FADES up >onscreen. You'll probably want to wait for trueSpace 2.0, since it allows animation of light intensity. It is possible now, but is funky to do, and sometimes gives mixed results… Regards, Ian
#11748From: R C McDougleMay 9, 1995 11:51 AM
Ian, >>You'll probably want to wait for trueSpace 2.0, since it allows animation of light intensity. It is possible now, but is funky to do, and sometimes gives mixed results…<< Thanks a LOT for the tip!!! I would have been VERY unhappy to spend the time on everything else and then find that the finale blows up/falls down. TS 2.0 probably won't make it in time for this presentation (end of May) but I'm glad that it is on the way. Robb (polishing tap shoes… rehearsing expansive gestures)
#11728From: Ken SmithMay 9, 1995 3:33 AM
Robb, One thing we have been discussing a lot recently is camera movement. A lot of animated cameras are too uniform in there movement in pan and zoom, and then they stop too abruptly. It is a little detail which even some of the big studios miss once in a while. Ken
#11749From: R C McDougleMay 9, 1995 11:51 AM
Ken, >>A lot of animated cameras are too uniform in there movement in pan and zoom, and then they stop too abruptly.<< I imagined handling this with a lot of keyframes along the path, then adjusting frame count between keys as I establish the pace of the animation. Is this possible?? Robb
#11788From: Ken SmithMay 10, 1995 1:47 AM
Robb, <<I imagined handling this with a lot of keyframes along the path, then adjusting frame count between keys as I establish the pace of the animation. Is this possible?>> You could also use the tension and bias controls to get a more natural movement with the camera. Ken
#11825From: R C McDougleMay 10, 1995 3:38 PM
Ken, >>tension and bias controls to get a more natural movement with the camera.<< Ahh… unexplored waters!! Why is it that we always have to do these kinds of things in a great rush and can't ? Wouldn't it be nice if just once a project schedule allowed for the kind of play that enriches both me and the project. Robb
#11908From: Ken SmithMay 11, 1995 5:05 PM
Ah Robb, that would take all the fun out of life! How would you manage without deadlines which are not really impossible, more like pure fantasy? Ken