CompuServe Thread

#CLAY modeling

25 messages in this thread
#166025From: peter ederApr 21, 1995 9:50 AM
I'd like to see some clay modeling in the future. Anybody share this opinion?
#166032From: Jonas Ruikis [ADESK]Apr 21, 1995 10:09 AM
Hi Peter, << ..clay modelling.. >> metaballs offers something similar to this. Have you seen… File Info for METAP2.JPG Section: IPAS Usage Contributor: 71333,2025 Size: 175160 Submitted: 3/9/95 Type: JPEG Accesses: 276 Title: Human torso made with MetaReyes 2.0 Keys: 3DS METABALLS METAREYES Female nude made by Jose Maria de Espona using MetaReyes 2.0.The model has 120 Metaballs with painted bump & color maps. The image is direct render output without further retouch.The whole model is included with MetaReyes 2.0 as an example. It took 6 hours to model. Product is distributed through Schreiber Instruments.
#166093From: krazy imagesApr 21, 1995 4:26 PM
Jonas, I think he is talking about something like NURBS rather than metaballs. I will define metaballs more something like high density fluid modelling 🙂 As for my definition of clay modelling, check out Pixel Putty Solo from the Valis Group (maybe Adesk could convince them to port this extraordinary Mac modeller as an IPAS… it is not polygon based so I don't know if it could work). ana /krazy images
#166155From: EDWARD HARVEYApr 22, 1995 1:53 AM
<< << ..clay modelling.. >> <<metaballs offers something similar to this. Have you seen…\ Im an expert at modeling clay ( I can model anything ) and I really think metaballs is not similar. The thing thats great about clay is the ability to push it, smooth it, and impress into it using any object as a tool. Its so directly intuitive compared to any computer modeling tool. The thinking processes required to be adept at the various computer modeling techniques are convoluted compared to clay modeling. The computer tools including fit and metaballs are amazing but primitive compared to the manipulation of clay. I cant begin to imagine the programming that would be required to get closer to this kind of ease and functionality in modeling so Im not complaining about the present tools, just pointing out their difficulties. Ed
#166166From: JAVIER REYES MORENOApr 22, 1995 8:01 AM
Hi Edward, All I can say is that the name of SoftImage's metaball package is META-CLAY and that of course real CLAY is a fluid. If you think metaball modelling is primitive , think about the 6 hours it took to model the female torso of METAP2.JPG and the 2 days involved in modelling the T-REX you can find in TREXMB.ZIP in IPAS USAGE LIBRARY. With real clay a model suited for digitizing should be 50 or 60 centimeters high . It would need an solid frame and would take many days only to dry. (and of course , once it drys … it cant move! <g>) -Javi
#166356From: Mike KelleyApr 23, 1995 6:54 PM
PMJI, but what I think Edward is getting at is that, for many of us, modeling with our hands is more intuitive and easier than trying to mouse (or keyboard) an object into shape. As you know, I own MetaReyes, and I do think it's a great product (really looking forward to 2.0!) but I am also concerned about the modeling process. I think it would be the greatest help (and a good sales tool!!) if Jose could write a detailed description (perhaps complete with intermediate screen shots, or some such) of how he does create such wonderful models. I'm not suggesting that everyone can have his talent, but even a lesson from the master would give us some ideas. When I sit down and start placing the balls on the screen, I really don't have a good idea on how to get muscle definition (in both the girl and T-Rex this is particularly significant), for example. Now, I realize that once 2.0 is out and we have those models we can examine them and that will help, but I still think some words from your master modeler would be appreciated. Kyle has provided some good tips (I subscripted to Planet Studio just to read his article!) but we can't have too much information.
#166692From: JAVIER REYES MORENOApr 25, 1995 4:26 PM
Hello Mike, Yes , I am sure it is quite different to work with a computer than doing it with real material. I didnt want to look extremist! I just wanted to point out that the closest thing available on a computer to clay modelling is (from my point of view) metaballs. Regarding Jose Maria models we will do those step by step descriptions. In fact they will be published in two major computer graphics magazines (One for the human torso and the other for the T-REX.) One or both of them will be included with release 2.0 as tutorials. -Javi
#166695From: Mike KelleyApr 25, 1995 5:15 PM
Thanks, looking forward to seeing those articles (make sure you let us know which magazines!! — I've having trouble keeping up with my reading).
#166520From: EDWARD HARVEYApr 24, 1995 7:52 PM
<< If you think metaball modelling is primitive>> Not primitive but convoluted and unintuitive. Like most of the folks on this forum I live on the computer, having given up getting my hands dirty with clay, paint and other materials. The productivity gain is of course more than substantial. There are a few areas where computer tools have a ways to go however amazing they are. For example nearly everyone who works in 2d digital cel type animation starts with paper and pencil because its still more efficient. Maybe Wacom will come out with a tablet that has a screen on it that will change that. Modeling is obviously an area that is still developing. Its my impression that lots of professional modeling is done with digitizers which are more expensive than software solutions. How could they sell these digitizers if modeling on the computer was easier? Also I think your examples rely on the phenomonal skill of the guy that did the woman and dynasour and dont represent the time it would take most of your customers to do comprable models. Dont get me wrong, I own your product ( I will check out the models you mention when I get r2 ) and other amazing products like meshpaint. But they are amazing like the early cameras were, much faster than painting but they cost a bundle, weighed a ton, and required lots of training to use. Now we just point and click. In that sense everything we use now to create digital output is primitive. The truth is that I love all you programmers that facilitate my work but I wont be satisfied till I can just think it to make it happen (G). Of course the Krell didnt survive it. Ed
#166574From: James M. MurphyApr 25, 1995 12:42 AM
>> The truth is that I love all you programmers that facilitate my work but I wont be satisfied till I can just think it to make it happen (G). Of course the Krell didnt survive it. << I beleive that when Bio-Feedback was in it's infancy..this would be the early 70's somebody actually gave a Moog Synthisizer Concert at Carnige Hall hooked up with a Bio-FeedBack device EEG machine. So if we Really wanted to do this, it' would be possible….By the Way, my Autogenic Systems Model 120 EEG "AKA BrainWave Machine" is packed away in the Closet, perhaps someone would care to make me an offer…It Originally sold for $5,000. Any Takers? Murph'
#166797From: Gary L. AngleApr 26, 1995 1:28 AM
Jim What an image you suggest!! At present, people using computers in the same room will have a slightly Zombied look in semi-darkness whilst modeling in some other world!! Connect modelers to Brainwave machines? This would mean people using computers in the same room all asleep, snoring, drooling on their shirts whilst modeling in the ALPHA STATE!! What is happening to us? Modeling needs to be physically painfull to help us appreciate our processes and not be so….oh wimpy!!!!!!?? I guess maybe instead of creating the perfect Alpha tone, the same mechanism could electro-stimulate muscles and our best modelers could look like Arnold! (or "Ice") No, the Alpha State isn't where DEC is Mfgd but I believe that New Mexico, especially around Santa Fe, is rapidly becoming a truly Alpha state!! Where else can you find people like the retired actor who bought a thirty mile section of a railway to run his full-size deisel locomotive just for fun and etc………… Some people move there just because it is an energy center of some kind! The Indians wondered about the Wachitchu in the mid 1800's…… What do they think about him now!!!!………ZZZZZZZZZZZZZSnortzzzzzzzzzzz, the sound of the creative mind! Gary( I need a vacation!!)Angle
#166809From: Jeffrey LererApr 26, 1995 6:37 AM
Gary: <asleep, snoring, drooling on their shirts whilst modeling> PMJI, but there must be a hidden video camera somewhere in my studio. Jeffrey (moving towards DEC ALPHA STATE)
#166951From: James M. MurphyApr 26, 1995 10:34 PM
So…..I hear Ya' Met Matt? Murph'
#167110From: Gary L. AngleApr 27, 1995 10:18 PM
Jim This is week 3 after the first intro, Thanks to you!! Meeting Matt is a different experience!!! A complete surprize! Each humble explanation of his endevours caused me to have to retrieve my chin from the floor. After haunting this forum for so long then having to face the grim reality in my area of endevour, his office is a mecca! His render jungle is really amazing but hardly in my lowly price range. He really puts the Alpha back in Alpha State!!! <G> Thank, Gary
#167226From: James M. MurphyApr 28, 1995 3:10 PM
I knew you'd like Meeting with him. Hang in there…thing's are just starting to get interesting. Murph'
#167262From: Gary L. AngleApr 28, 1995 6:57 PM
Jim You seem to be every where w/ the right thing to say!! Thanks, Gary
#166655From: CSA/CAApr 25, 1995 12:08 PM
Ed, Some of us made it from the 50's to now. Monsters from the ID? Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
#167491From: EDWARD HARVEYApr 30, 1995 2:25 PM
<<Some of us made it from the 50's to now. Monsters from the ID? One of my all time favorite movies. The effects hold up even today. I noticed that the great scene where they cross the bridge looking down 20 miles into the machine was lifted by babylon5 for the planets auto defense system. As a Krell it must have required great restraint on your part to avoid the monsters from the id. Ed
#168168From: James Coulter[Mindscape]May 4, 1995 2:37 AM
> I noticed that the great scene where they cross the bridge looking down 20 miles into the machine was lifted by babylon5 for the planets auto defense system. < I thought that too! (I was wondering if I was the only one who noticed! <g>) — James — Choreo Motion —
#166989From: JAVIER REYES MORENOApr 27, 1995 4:23 AM
>>Its my impression that lots of professional modeling is done with >>digitizers which are more expensive than software solutions >>How could they sell these digitizers if modeling on the computer was >>easier? I dont know. But the dinosaurs from Jurassic Park did cost a lot. A lot of money to create the real sculptures. A lot of money for the digitizing hardware and software. Why did they do it so ? . Just a question of talent You point out ? Do you mean that the best company of the world , with 400 people in production tasks doesnt have talented people ? Thats why we can make a T-REX with a 66 mhz PC without additional hardware ? I think they didnt choose metaballs because workstation Metaballs are B-A-D. With the Metaball softwares I know it would be almost impossible to create T-REX . We do have a polhemus digitizer and we used to digitize clay models made by Jose Maria (He is really good with clay) . One thing I can tell you for sure. WE WONT DO IT ANYMORE. >> Also I think your examples rely on the phenomonal skill of the guy that >> did the woman and dynasour … Thats a good one! How could it be otherwise? Caravaggios are good because they were done by Caravaggio. I suppose the paintbrushes didnt paint by their own <g>! Thank god Metaballs are not creative, they are simply a tool and they only reflect what is inside to be reflected. -Javi
#167126From: EDWARD HARVEYApr 28, 1995 12:13 AM
Thanks for your good work on your product. I look foward to the upgrade. Ed
#167353From: krazy imagesApr 29, 1995 4:24 PM
"Thank god Metaballs are not creative, they are simply a tool and they only reflect what is inside to be reflected." Que poetico, Javi 🙂 ana /krazy images
#167840From: JAVIER REYES MORENOMay 2, 1995 11:05 AM
Hola Ana. Si hay poesia en la frase achacala a mi insuficuente conocimiento del Ingles. Algo asi como poesia aleatoria (aunque asi componia musica Jonh Cage …) <g> -Javi PD.- Despues de este rollo que te he soltado , espero que hables Espanol como parecia por tu mensaje…
#168083From: krazy imagesMay 3, 1995 5:21 PM
Poesia aleatoria, dada, que mas da <bg> El caso es que te ha quedado muy bien. En esto de la calidad y la creatividad estoy contigo. El mercado esta lleno de autentica porqueria, principalmente porque la gente con programas 3D se creen que los conocimientos tecnicos lo son todo (y ni siquiera eso: preguntales algo sobre el uso del color, tecnicas de iluminacion, fotografia, movimiento, energia kinetica… "ni idea, oye") Y luego esta el tema que tu apuntabas de la cretividad. Una pena, la verdad. ana /krazy images
#168114From: Anne BrownMay 3, 1995 8:44 PM
Hey Ana – Do me a favor? When you post in Spanish will you put a translation in also? <G> I can get through some French but am sorely lacking in Spanish. Think I'd better get a CD for multiple language dictionaires. I've always wanted to make the time to learn more than English – and Southern and Yankee don't count! I'm both. Anne