CompuServe Thread

#camera roll not wanted

3 messages in this thread
#166929From: Marion K. MarksApr 26, 1995 8:30 PM
This quaternion (quanternion?) math thingie is why the "rotation" of Cameras and Spotlights are called "Roll" instead of "Rotation." The angle of Roll is the angle away from that needed to keep a line that starts at the center of the Camera (or Spotlight) and passes through it's "bottom center" to keep pointing straight down. It's not the same thing as either an X, Y, or Z Rotation. Remember, Cameras and Spotlights have Targets. Objects don't. You don't Rotate such things because that would affect the positioning of the Targets. This is why I've been suggesting adding "Object Cameras" ever since the WishList freeforall for Release "4." An Object Camera would look to the Renderer as a Camera, but to the Keyframer as an Object (or, more properly, a Dummy). Its visual representation in the Keyframer and 3D Editor screens would be a dashed box (like a Dummy) that is Camera-blue, with a marking of some sort in the center of one face (a circle, perhaps) representing the "lens." It would NOT have a Target and thus would not have Roll keys. Instead, it would have Rotate keys just like any other Object or Dummy. Instead of the Scale keys, it would have FOV keys because in that respect it is still a Camera. It could act as a Parent in heirarchies, with its Children inheriting Position and Rotation just as if it were a Dummy. Perhaps any Objects linked to it would inherit Scale based on the FOV such that they would appear to remain the same size to the Camera as the FOV changed. Such an Object Camera would not have the quaternion singularity movement problem, and could be Keyframed like any other Object. It would not be useful for tracking Objects while changing its position relative to them — for that, you would use the regular Camera. But it would be useful for, say, the viewpoint of a pilot of a plane when the plane is traversing a complex path involving Rotations and Path Follow Banking, yet the pilot also sometimes looks to the left or right etc. relative to the direction of travel.
#168648From: David GouldMay 7, 1995 5:08 AM
<<This is why I've been suggesting adding "Object Cameras" ever since the WishList freeforall for Release "4." >> Your camera object idea sounds like the most logical solution to the problem. Since Gary did *mention* that cameras will be handled differently in R5 we can only hope <g>. At the barest minimum, 3DS could allow you to specify a provisional "up" vector for the camera, so that 3DS doesn't have to calculate it itself. Instead it could use the provisional "up" vector to calculate the exact "up" vector used by the camera. This would prevent all these quaternion singularity problems since allowing you to explicitly specify where "up" is for the camera means you can control the camera roll exactly as you want. DaviD "Fragile: This way UP" GouID
#169658From: Marion K. MarksMay 11, 1995 4:56 PM
"Object Cameras" would not REPLACE the current "Camera/Target Quaternian Roll Cameras" that 3DS currently has, but rather be a new type of Camera that SUPPLEMENTS the existing type, just as we now have both Omni and Spot Lights. Which Camera type you use would be based on the types of Camera animation you need to perform on a per-Project basis (and, of course, you can have multiple Cameras per Project). Most of the code for this is already present. An Object Camera would seem to the KeyFramer to be precisely the same as a Dummy. It would be drawn as a Dummy (dashed-line box) but colored the same shade of Blue that the regular Cameras are. A circle or dot in the center of one face of the blue Dummy Box would show where the lens is, while a square within another face 90 from the lens face would show where the bottom of the Camera is. Given those two, the orientation of the camera would be apparent. The Renderer would see this as similar to a regular Camera located at the center of the pseudo-Dummy cube, with its Target positioned at the dot on the "lens" face of the cube, and its Roll set so that the bottom points to the center of the bottom face of the cube.