CompuServe Thread

#How many GIG's per minut

20 messages in this thread
#110789From: Kevin A.May 14, 1995 2:16 PM
IBM is making a new series of drives both a 5 gig and a 8.7 gig 3.5" form factor that are rated AV and will deliver above 5 megs sustained throughput. The Seafgate Elites will not do this and as far as I know, there is no drive on the market yet that has broken the 5 meg barrier. I'm testing 4 IBM Ultarstar XPs that are the forerunners of the new IBM AV drives. They spin at 7200 RPM and are actually faster than the AV dirves IBM will produce. I get a minimum op 5.2 megs per second sustained date throughput, 6.5 – 7.0 most of the time. The Flyer needs 5.0 megs sustained to record lossless MII or Betacam SP on all shots. It needs less for a closeup/medium shot etc since there is less detail. The quality is the equivalent of other systems that use arrayed drives to get 4 to 1 JPEG compression rates if you use Flyer HQ5 continuously as I do. The IBM drives will be released this summer and faster drives are on the horizon. Flyer D2 lossless needs 8 megs sustained throughput. These drives probably won't surface until next year, but the Flyer is processing at that res. Problem is now you can't record or play it back so D2 will not be a reality unless Newtek can figure a way to use arrayed drives. If you arrayed two of these IBMs you could get well ove 10 megs sustained throughput which would utilize Flyer D2 capapbilities. I must say that having these drives greatly enhance the utility of the Flyer as you can lay down exactly what you put in (to the eye at least, and for the veiwer what else matters?). These type of drives will probablly sell for $1750 wholesale for the 5 gig form factor and I'm getting about about 21 minutes on each drive in HQ5 mode. I must reiterate my previous post that I wish to hell people would stop blaming Newtek for laggardly drive technology. IBM has told me these fast drives are overkill for 99% of their market so they have not been motivated to make them. Hence we're victims of supply and demand, not Newtek's folly. Kevin Elders
#110813From: J Saperstein/FontBankMay 14, 1995 7:05 PM
"Flyer D2 lossless needs 8 megs sustained throughput." "I must reiterate my previous post that I wish to hell people would stop blaming Newtek for laggardly drive technology." "Hence we're victims of supply and demand, not Newtek's folly." Funny. NewTek didn't say anything resembling any of these things as they were promoting and hyping the Flyer to their existing customer base. Gee, I wonder why . . . Jerry
#110930From: Wayne ColeMay 16, 1995 12:48 AM
>> Funny. NewTek didn't say anything resembling any of these things as >>they were promoting and hyping the Flyer to their existing customer base. and taking the money… Lets not forget that minor detail ;^} wmc – via Autopilot!
#110931From: J Saperstein/FontBankMay 16, 1995 1:19 AM
"Lets not forget that minor detail" What's a few thousand between friends, eh? <G> Jerry
#111025From: henry tellerMay 17, 1995 12:02 AM
Thanks for the insight. I believe at one time NewTek understood that IBM would have these drives out earlier and they based their D2 claim on that. Now they're trying to explain why you can't do D2 now, when people felt they said you would be able to with the Flyer. Hank Videology, Inc Where you always get P.O.M.P. and Service under all circumstances
#111038From: J Saperstein/FontBankMay 17, 1995 12:43 AM
"I believe at one time NewTek understood that IBM would have these drives out earlier and they based their D2 claim on that. Now they're trying to explain why you can't do D2 now, when people felt they said you would be able to with the Flyer." I think the realities go against that theory, Hank, what with NewTek's "certification" program and all that razzle-dazzle. They didn't change their D2 claims and raise the drive issue until they had shipped all their Flyer back orders. And of course not a word has been said of how all the people who bought NewTek "certified" drives would be compensated. Jerry
#111117From: henry tellerMay 17, 1995 7:06 PM
I think Nt made the worst marketing error with the drive problem. They overstated the potential, based on futures from IBM, and then continued the claims, hoping that the certified drives might work with software improvements in the future. The Flyer mess has hurt their credibility and can only be recovered with an acceptable 4.1 and an equitable hard drive resolution. My jury is still out, but milling impatiently. Hank Videology, Inc Where you always get P.O.M.P. and Service under all circumstances
#111139From: Michael MiloffMay 17, 1995 9:43 PM
Hank, Of all the issue that have bugged me about NewTek's behaviour, everything else I can accomodate myself to (grudgingly) except the hard drive situation. I like others overspent $2-3k on drives that don't work. I am sort of optimistic they will work out most of the other stuff. But I sure hope they figure out how to get those Seagates to be more functional. And still I paid 2-3k extra – but that would be easier to take f they worked at least. Michael
#111428From: Wayne ColeMay 20, 1995 6:39 AM
Michael, See my message to Jerry on a possible compromise I believe could be painless to NewTek and reduce the pain considerably to the users regarding an HD "upgrade" program. wmc – via Autopilot!
#111149From: J Saperstein/FontBankMay 17, 1995 10:49 PM
"I think Nt made the worst marketing error with the drive problem." I'm not convinced there is a drive problem, per se. But you are correct: the worst error they've made to date is saying that it is without offering some kind of buy-back, refund, credit or trade-in program for drives purchased on their recommendation. From a legal standpoint, if there's a liability issue at all, this one sticks out like a sore thumb. "They overstated the potential, based on futures from IBM, and then continued the claims, hoping that the certified drives might work with software improvements in the future." I don't buy into the IBM scenario, particularly considering the source I know of. NewTek made a major issue of "certifying" the drives – and said not one word about a problem until reports of stuttering started cropping up here and elsewhere. If indeed it is a drive problem, then NewTek is probably going to wind up owning a lot of slightly used drives, I think. Jerry
#111194From: henry tellerMay 18, 1995 11:33 AM
Maybe they'll have a great sale on audio drives. As far as what really happened, the facts are that Nt certified the drives and indicated D2 quality. Now they are expected to deliver or negotiated a compromise. Let's see what happens. Hank Videology, Inc Where you always get P.O.M.P. and Service under all circumstances
#111204From: J Saperstein/FontBankMay 18, 1995 12:46 PM
"the facts are that Nt certified the drives and indicated D2 quality" No argument from me on that. But where's the sound of the other shoe dropping? What, if anything, does NewTek plan to do for people who bought into its promises? Jerry
#111268From: henry tellerMay 18, 1995 9:35 PM
That's the other main issue, along with the 4.1 specs, that seem to be floating with no current comments from Nt. Let's hope they have answers to both soon., Hank Videology, Inc Where you always get P.O.M.P. and Service under all circumstances
#111495From: Sharon MarzanoMay 20, 1995 10:06 PM
Good news ….. Just put two 9 gig elites together with an array card form JAS Engineering . Recorded great video maybe d-2 got to get my vector wave on it. But I believe I just pulled my investment out of the fire. Maybe this is the beggining of the turn on this thing. So don't count your investment in HD out yet. I will have more as I am now trying to file the 18 gig drive with betacam sp sourced video and see how it looks and edits. So far no stutters. To circumvent misunderstandings the array I am using takes two drives and treats them as one increasing memory capacity and speed. It so far is working great. Joe Jensen Sharon Marzano Nightscape Productions
#111500From: Michael MiloffMay 20, 1995 10:33 PM
Sharon, I don't know too much about what you are doing but it sounds promising. I have some questions that I hope you might be able to answer. How much does an array card cost? Can you connect more than 2 drives? Do the drives have to be the same type and size? Does it take a lot of technical wizardry to install this. Thanks in advance. Michael
#111562From: Sharon MarzanoMay 21, 1995 8:52 AM
It costs around $600. Setup was transparent. Attach the two drives which had to be the same model seagates and it goes. More test today. Joe Jensen / Sharon Marzano Nightscape
#111546From: Wayne ColeMay 21, 1995 6:02 AM
Joe/Sharon, (Is this a case for s/he, or what – ;^} Does the set-up and card you are testing require drives that support spindle sync? wmc – via Autopilot!
#111561From: Sharon MarzanoMay 21, 1995 8:47 AM
If it does it is invisiable to the user. The issue of that is speed I suppose and we are doing a speed check today. Also checking if the drives bog down at the inner rings. Eleborate on the importance of the spindle speed. Thanks Joe Jensen / Sharon Marzano Nightscape
#111567From: Sharon MarzanoMay 21, 1995 9:05 AM
Read your message again. Heres another take . The RAID accepts only seagate drives of the same kind. Pair of Elites, barracudas etc. I don't know if different revisions create problems. We personally have checked out barracudas and elites. Nightscape
#111626From: henry tellerMay 21, 1995 9:06 PM
Thanks Sharon – I'm sure you'll get thanks all around if this setup continues to work well. For big hard drive users, it also lets them use the bigger drives and still get the quality. Waiting to hear all the nitty gritty. (vendors, costs, speed, quality, capacity, etc) Thanks again for the good news – Hank Videology, Inc Where you always get P.O.M.P. and Service under all circumstances