#030 vs 030wRAM
12 messages in this thread
Hiya! It's me again!
I am getting set to actually _purchase_ an '030 and I have a couple of
questions concerning them. Since silver is my main reason for this gross
expenditure, I figure you might be able to help.
I can get an MTronics 28Mhz 030/882, with no RAM for about $1200 which is
quite reasonable. I can also get a GVP 28Mhz 030/882 for $1850 but it has
32-bit RAM and a controller. I do not need another controller and I have
7MB of RAM (8-up DIP/DRAM board) and 130MB hard disk space.
What is the Real time advantage of the 32-bit RAM when ray tracing?
Will I see a _major_ trace time reduction with the GVP instead of the
Imtronics board? Is the diff worth $600??
P.S. any word on Imagine release date yet?
Thx much!
-Scott
Scott –
32-bit ram will certainly make a difference in rendering times. I own
the Imtronics board fully loaded with 32-bit RAM (4 megs) and the
difference from the stock 68000 with stock memory is phenomenal (well,
pretty darn good, anyway! <grin>). Just for curiosity's sake, I've booted
the board without configuring the 32-bit RAM, and the difference from stock
68000 mode is barely noticeable. The reason is that the 32-bit RAM gives
the '030 an instruction and data cache that it can access directly 32 bits
at a time, versus 16 with the regular memory. Also, the configure program
allows copying of the Kickstart ROMs to 32-bit RAM for much faster access
to the ROM routines as well.
As for the controller, if your 130 MB of hard drive is SCSI, you'll
benefit from the SCSI controller on the Imtronics board. It's a 32-bit SCSI
interface. My ST296N is giving me read/write DPERF values up around
250K/sec. 'Course, a Quantum would be faster, but I owned the 296 before I
bought the accellerator; actually, it's why I went with Imtronics. The IDE
interface on the GVP is not directly compatible with SCSI drives. The
Hurricane SCSI was plug-and-play.
Anyway, I hope this info helps a little. The main thing is, the 32-bit
RAM is a MUST if you need speed from your '030/'882.
Harry
Thx, Harry…..
I suppose my next question is what kind of difference can I expect from
020/881 vs 030/882…although I can assume the 030 is faster…
I have had ray traces take as long as a 12-hour stretch on my '000
(hehehe)…sometimes more (glass and water, combined with reflective
surfaces, complex objects and multiple light sources (including filters)
and I wonder (since you say "well, not phenomenal") just how FAST does your
machine trace at? You have the 28Mhz 030/882, right?
If the difference is from hours to minutes it's worth every penny (up to a
reasonable limit), but if not I might reconsider saving some more for that
50Mhz 030……
-Scott
Scott –
Tracing … Haven't played _that_ much with it, though I do have a scene
with a flat mirror, a ball mirror, a pool-type ball (one color, but hard
and specular) another shape, ground and horizon with one light source. That
particular trace takes something less than 15-20 minutes (I think – never
actually timed it) when I set the zone to encompass just the objects plus a
little extra. I'll have to time a full screen trace sometime.
One other example that might help – When I had DigiView 4.0 generate a
Dynamic HAM picture on the stock CPU, it took about 10 minutes or so (time
enough to walk away, do something and come back, anyway). With the '030
board & RAM (yes, it's the 28 MHz version) it takes a little less than a
minute. The Dynamic HiRes seem to take something between 1 and 5 (again, I
rarely have a stopwatch going …8^) ).
Does this help any more? Also, word is that Imtronics has or is working
on a 33 MHz upgrade, and is also working on 50 MHz. I seem to remember
hearing that they had an '040 board in the works, too, but I wouldn't swear
to it. I'll probably call the next day or so and get an update update.
Harry
The 50Mhz board is available, according to my dealer…at 3400$ !!
They DONT have a 33Mhz, though…….again, according to LCA in Norwood, MA
and they are pretty good about stuff like that.
Sounds like you're cranking!
-Scott
You mean the 50 Mhz GVP board? My dealer has one….pretty cool!
Steve
Scott –
Talked to Imtronics today. They had just had a meeting where pricing on
the 33 and 50 MHz versions was discussed. According to the guy that runs
the place down here, the conversions required to make the existing board
run 33 MHz are not very complex (i.e., he asked me how I was with a
soldering iron) – the difficult (and/or moderately expensive) part is
getting the 33 MHz chips. He also said that they had a way to do one
modification that would handle either 33 or 50 MHz, with the only
difference (after modification) being a crystal and the CPU/CP chips.
I might be running at 33 MHZ RSN … 8^). Later ..
Harry
How good are you with a soldering Iron, Harry? The thought scares me as
much as taking my own appendix out! heheh Hire a sturgeon to swim, I
always say!
<grin> Actually, though software is my main business, I've done enough
soldering that I think I could probably do the 33 MHz upgrade he described.
I did my own Fat Agnus, and have modified several PC 1.44K drives to defeat
the media detect with a switch, among other things. Even etched my own
circuit board for a project on my old Atari 800 … no one was more
surprised that I when it actually worked … 8^). Anyway, I'm saving my
pennies (no exaggeration there …) for the upgrade when it's available.
I'll let you know how it compares when it happens. Have you decided yet
which way you're gonna go?
Not really, and since I am involved in trying to put out an album (I'm 1/3
of the way through the actual recording of it, and working hard at the
rest) I may not even end up with enough "pennies"….but one consideration
is this; there are a lot of people buying the new boards thgat are
available, and quite a few selling some of the older ones (I even saw a
12Mhz 020/881 Hurricane for 200$ in the want ads) that I might scrape by a
16Mhz CBM 020 Board for relatively cheap. The problem with that is people
kind of want close to the same price (oftentimes) for their 020 as you can
get an 030 for. I am a patient man….and I WILL get some kind of
accelleration soon. hehehe I like you character: 8^) – its a variation of
the CB one I see that is 🙂 or :^). (Hey, Graphics are fun, too!)
I would probably upgrade MYSELF if you gave me a soldering iron and a
board…..heheh strictly software here! (but I can do a hellatious job of
adding boards!)
Scott, I'm using the GVP 030/882 @ 28mhz. Whether the speedup is enough
depends on your definition of 'enough'. For instance, overnight I ran
three pics, full trace, Silver 24bit, in hires. All used mirror surfaces
in some way, and had glass type properties. Nothing special. Each image
takes about 2 hours to render. On stock it would likely take 10-24 hours.
Normal tracing seems to be sped up by a factor of 5-25 times, and is
heavily dependent on image content.
This does not begin to state the advantages of window response when
working, which is just as great an advantage of the actual rendering
speedup. When a 3000 point scene can redraw on the screen in 5-10 seconds
(when changing views, etc) it certainly helps productivity, as compared to
waiting 20-30 seconds for the same redraw on a stock machine. Everything
in the windows is so much smoother and faster. I don't know about others,
but I usually spend much more time creating the scene than in rendering it,
so this production speedup is very important to me.
50mhz would be great, but 28 ain't bad. –jp–
Scott, the 32bit RAM is well worth it. Unfortunately, the controller on
the GVP board is an extra that won't be worth much to you. –Rick P.S. I
imagine you can re-sell your 16bit RAM without too much difficulty.