Programmer Calculator?
15 messages in this thread
I want a new calculator. I went to the local university bookstore, who
probably has the best selection in town, and I was not impressed at the
features of the calculators, at any price level.
Price isn't really important, as long as it does what I want. I want it to
be oriented to computer programming. If it could calculate and display
sixteen hexadecimal digits, I'd be tickled. Working in hex, decimal and
binary is a must. It should bop between those modes with a single
well-labelled key, not "ctrl alt mode 3". I don't want RPN, I want
algebraic notation.
It should have keys for A through F, too. A friend had a Texas Instruments
model with separate A – F keys a few years back. However, it had flush
"buttons" on a fold-out, book-like organization, and eventually the
circuits flexed one too many times and it was dead.
Beyond these functions, I don't care – signed arithmetic, fixed point
hex/binary math, graphs, charts, business or stats, that's all gravy. Is
there a programmer-oriented calculator?
John,
Being somewhat of a calculator aficionado, I can tell you from my
experience, no calculator meets all of your specifications, but one comes
mighty close. It is the HP-16C Computer Scientist. It is out of
production, but you may still be able to find some floating around. If
anyone would have them, it would be Educalc, an outstanding calculator
mail order store out of Laguna Niguel CA. There number is 800-677-7001.
It has a maximum word size of 64 bits (16 hex digits) but can only display
eight hex digits at one time. Shift-Arrow keys are provided to view the
rest of the number. One keystroke can convert between hex, octal, decimal
and binary. It has A-F keys. It has modes for 1's complement, 2's
complement and unsigned integers The word size in user adjustable. It does
the standard arithmetic functions, along with shifts, rotations, masking,
logical operation, a few "double word" arithmetic functions (i.e multiply
two integers in the x and y registers together and get a double word
answer in the x and y registers. It also has a floating point mode and is
programmable.
Of course, being and HP, it is an RPN calculator, but don't let that scare
you. At one time I thought RPN was a stupid way to design a calculator,
but once I tried it, I saw how much quicker and easier it was. For a
computer programmer, it should not be a big deal, since all RPN does is
put it's numbers on a stack and the binary operation deal with the first
two numbers on the stack, and the uniary operator just the first one. If
you can find it, I would highly recommend the HP-16C. I think I paid
arround $100 for mine.
Another possible choice would be the HP-48SX or HP-48S. The Math/Base menu
has many of the same operations as the 16C. But integers alway have to be
input with a preceding "#" Character. The top row of keys both serve as
menu selection keys, and for the letters A-F. You can hit the alpha key
twice to lock in the use of A-F, but then would have to do an unlock to
<continued>
use the Hex, Oct, Dec, Bin conversion keys. I other words, while the
binary functions on this calculator are pretty good, the "user interface"
is not quite so good. It is much more easily programmed though. The only
difference between the HP-48SX and the 48S is that the former has a slot
for to IC cards (similar to PCMIA cards) for adding memory or custom
applications and is about $100.00. Both models have infrared input output
and an RS-232 port with built in Kermit tranfer protocols. The 48SX sells
for about $300 and the 48S for about $200. I would personally recommend
SX. Although it comes with 32K of memory, you might find yourself needing
extra memory or want to use an application card, in which case you would
find yourself frustrated if you bought the 48S. Keep in mind, that these
calculators do MUCH, MUCH MORE than just binary/hex/octal operations.
Matrices, calculus, a unique built in SOLVER for solving equations,
graphiing capablities and much more. No doubt the best scientific
calculator on the market. Educalc has the best price I have seen on
these.
I also seem to remember a TI programmers calculator some years ago (not
the one your described) but have not seen it in a long, long while.
I hopes this helps you make your decision.
Wow, thanks for all the background! I seem to remember the HP-16C…
Someone also recommended the Casio CM-100.
John,
I've got a Casio CM-100 around here somewhere. I liked it but, it is
solar powered only and I tend to work in a low light environment that was
a bit too low for it. I'm now using a Sharp EL-520D — I don't like it
quite as much but it is both solar and battery.
If memory serves, the CM-100 is only 32 bit.
-sja
John,
I'd add my encouragement to go RPN – I have an HP-48SX, and while its
utility as a _convenient_ "programmer's calculator" is highly debateable
(I'll tell you why in a sec), the math operations on it are superb, as is
the ease of using RPN.
I used to switch between RPN and Algebraic calculators about once a year –
all coincidence, based on who had the newest, coolest new calculator. I've
had the 48sx since jsut after it first came out, and while I still LOOK at
the new calculators, mostly I just snicker at them… yeah, I like the
48sx *that* much.
Now – I think that the way that the 48sx works across the different
"programmer's bases" is inconvenient because:
– entering a value requires you type it this way…
<shifted> # <value> <enter>
…which I think is slightly inconvenient.
– The second problem is that to enter the alpha characters A-F,
which are certainly accesable on their own keys right at the top
of the keyboard, you have to constantly use the Alpha shift key
(those keys do other things, otherwise). You can either hold it
down, or press it twice to "lock" in alpha mode (until the number
is entered, that is) – neither of which is particularly convenient.
These are considerable interruptions in the stream of thought, and I
personally don't like them at ALL. Lucky for me I don't use the HP for
this kind of math very often… :^) I can do most binary math in my head
faster than I can type it even on a good binary calculator.
In fairness, I ought to point out that once a number is entered, you can
truly savage it. :^) The HP provides user-settable word size from 1 to 64
bits, hex, octal, binary and decimal modes, conversion to and from "real"
(float) formats, rotate right and left, shift right and left, arithmetic
shift right and left, And, Or Xor and Not. Since you can trivially convert
to the calculator's float format (1 key), you have everything else the
calculator can do available to you. To explain what *else* it can do, I'll
<continued>
simply mention that it comes with 852 pages of very good, clear
documentation… :^)
I'm pretty certain that you could get around both of those limitations by
writing a "let's be a programmer's calculator" program for the calculator;
it is extrordinarily programmable, as you might expect. Quickly paging
thru the manual, I see that everything you'd need is there – conversions,
alpha lock from the program, the ability to call all std functions and
menus – but I've not tried it, because I just don't have the need.
Anyway, I guess my main point is the most important thing: RPN in and of
itself is, IMHO, a much better, more intuitive way to manipulate these
types of numbers. I'm just not sure that a 48sx is a good answer to those
needs alone.
–Ben
…via AutoPilot
Only 853 pages of docs? I want a calculator, not another programming
language. 🙂 But I'll check out the 48sx, too.
John,
The large number of pages in the manual reflect the fact the 48SX does
SO MUCH. But the quality of their manuals are second to none I have ever
seen. Really easy reading and very thorough.
Ben,
Nice to find someone else who LOVES their HP-48SX as much as I do. Of
course, I also love my HP-42S. If doing rapid fire calcuations or if I
don't want to lug arround the 48SX, I will use the 42S.
I use to think TI calculators where great. Now, I am like you. I look
at some of the new calculators on the market and kind of laugh.
I think HP did a very nice job – except the part John tagged. :^)
–Ben
…via AutoPilot
No problem. I have not seen the Casio, so I can't comment on it. One thing
I forget to say about the HP-48S(X) is that you can see all 16 hex digits
at one time on it's display.
John: I picked up a Radio Shack EC-4013 Scientific calc some time ago and
it has most of the functions I want for programming. It will convert
between Hex, Octal, Decimal, and Binary but only up to 8 digits, and it
has the keys for A-F. Also does negate, not, and, or, exclusive or, and
exclusive nor operations. Uses solar cells so no batteries to worry about.
But I would like to pick up a better programmers calc myself, so it will
be interesting to see what others are using.
John – K7KB (Flying via AutoPilot)
John,
Quite a few years ago, TI had a non-folding calculator with all the
features you want. If memory serves me, it was called the TI Programmer
and was available only as a direct order item from TI. I doubt that they
are still available, but it might be worth calling them and asking.
John,
I've got a Casio CM-100. It does all you want, except the 16digit
Hex, it only does 8 digit Hex (and 32 bit binary).
Oh…and it works in Octal also.
Price was about $25 or so…many years ago.
Don