#Quantum Strangeness
27 messages in this thread
Hi,
A friend is having a problem with his Quantum Pro40 drive (hooked up to a
GVP Series II adapter, running under WB2.04). It seems that the drive has
become read-only. He cannot format it (either AmigaDos or low-level)
without getting errors; when he deletes something from the disk, AmigaDos
acts normally…but the file does not get deleted. He cannot copy anything
to the drive, either.
This is all I know right now. Has anyone heard of anything like
this? I think that the drive is organically wrong; he things that its
simply a bit set somewhere. The drive is backed up, so we can
experiment…
Jonathan
If you have another controller, take the drive out and connect it to that.
Do another low level format and try again with the GVP controller. Just
guessing.
Jonathan,
Have your friend do an info command from a Shell and see what AmigaDOS
considers the drive to be. If the drive won't validate, it becomes
read-only and you won't be able to delete anything or write anything to it.
He should be able to format it, though. If it won't re-Prep from GVPprep,
it very likely could be a hardware problem with the drive.
David
David (and Margaret);
Well, it seems that the drive was normal using the info command
(read/write). But…in a fit of rage, my friend managed to crash his
drive…interrupted his startup-sequence; he then issued the format
command. After it had gotten past a few cylinders (incidentally, he *was*
able to use the format command…but it didn't do anything! It looked like
it was, but after a reboot…everything was still there…hmmm) he reboot
the machine, trashing the disk.
However, he now has write access to the drive. Last I heard was that he
was formatting the disk, and going to try to duplicate the problem.
Jonathan
– via Whap!
I've had nothing but problems with the GVP drive prep software. Yes, you
can use info and see the drive, do all of the formatting, set up your
drive, run the partition software only to have it quit. Try again in the
prep software and the no. of blocks, cylinder entries are screwy. I tried
to connect a second drive on the same controller for six months, gave up
and bought one larger drive. It works, takes too long to boot, but I just
don't have the time or patience to mess with it anymore. GVP makes nice
hardware but software :'(.
Margaret,
That's really strange! I have had *ZERO* problems with GVP hardware and
software. It just works, and gives me no hassles. I now have three SCSI
devices on my GVP series II, and will probably be adding a fourth very
soon.
Just make sure that the device with the last SCSI address has an
RDB written to it that identifies it as the LastLUN (I think that's what
they call it). This will make the boot-up time much shorter.
jonathan
Well someday, I want to add a Syquest. This means the term resistors and
all have to come out and here we go again. Let me say that I went around
and around with a Seagate and an external Fujitsu. I'd really like to have
kept the Fujitsu but I gave up and got a 105meg Quantum. The dreaded Last
Lun got me into problems with the Seagate. It had to come out of the case,
reformatted on another controller and put back in. I don't touch that
button. Actually, I'm sure it would be OK with the Quantum but I can't
spend all of my life formatting and partitioning drives. The Quantum came
up with a Scsi ID of 6, so no doubt it is looking at all of the ID's before
it starts. Someday, I'll mess with it. Glad you've got all of your drives
connected.
Margaret,
I suggest that you do things the Macintosh way (don't throw bottles at
me…:) when it comes to termination…don't use internal resistor packs at
all, if you can avoid it. I simply get an external terminator, and rip all
the internal ones out, even if I don't have an external device. This works
well on what I understand to be standard SCSI host adapters, like the GVP
Series II, or the Adaptec 1542B on the PC.
Jonathan
– via Whap!
I wouldn't know an internal term resistor from an external one. I guess
some of the newer 3rd party Mac drives have the ID switch and the term
resistor switch (?) on the outside of the case. I really don't like opening
the drive case, undoing the drive, turning it upsidedown just to test
something.
Margaret,
Just for your info: the internal resistors on a SCSI drive seem to come in
threes (if there is an exception to this, someone let me know). I have
found this to be true on Quantum, Toshiba and Seagate SCSI devices. They
are usually either black or orange/yellow (in my experience; this is
probably not a good rule of thumb)…when you get a new drive, these packs
*SHOULD* be installed. They are usually in SIP format (single inline (pin)
package). They may even be called "RP1", "RP2" and "RP3" on the logic
board. It is a good idea to remove these immediately if you wish to
terminate things externally.
An external terminator is simply a plug that pops over the last external
SCSI port in your daisy chain; if you only have internal devices, pop it on
the port of the controller card. Most have the 25-pin port, so you would
need a SCSI cable to do so (external terminators usually use a Centronics
port found on external SCSI devices). The Adaptec on the SCSI using PC at
work uses a Centronics port, so it is nice and tidy.
Right now, I have *NO* resistor packs installed on any of my devices,
using only an external terminator. If I add another external device, there
is no need to futz around with internal resistor packs ever again.
Jonathan
– via Whap!
I copied your information to my harddrive and I'll print it out and put it
in my harddrive manilla file. Thanks very much. This is something I should
do and then I'll have it ready and waiting for another drive. Where can I
get an external 25 pin terminator?
Margart,
Hmm…I don't think that I've ever seen a 25-pin DSUB format external
terminator, although I would wager that they do exist. Again, I would
suggest (assuming that you have no external devices now) to get an external
cable; barring that, wait to do this until you do have external devices.
Jonathan
– via Whap!
Jonathan,
Where did you get your internal resistor pack??? I bought one at a MAC
store for about $15, and removed all the term resistors from my drives ( i
have 3 in an external case, room for one more which'll either be a HD or a
tape backup)…anyway, despite the repeated assurances that the little plug
thingie had terminating resistors inside it didn't work.
I'd love to get one of those things, but the hassle of disassembling my
external case and re/starting etc… probably won't be worth it until I
install the next drive.
.. Tim Trompeter…
Timothy,
Hmm…wonder why it didn't work? I grabbed an external terminator (these
things are sealed, by the way, and I didn't put any resistors into them)
that was sitting in our Mac parts drawer (you usually get one whenever you
get a Mac external device)…just plugged it in and went…strange…
What kind of controller do you have? For the GVP, I took all the internal
resistors off of the internal devices, as well as the external
devices.
jonathan
Jonathan,
I'm not sure why it didn't work. I've got a rev3 33mHz combo card, with 1
internal HD and 3 external devices via the SCSI cable. I have noticed that
whenever I boot my 2000 without the external case on that I get the purple
"insert WB" screen, even though the system directory is assigned and
located on the internal Quantum 52LPS drive. I had figured that the
terminators would work fine as long as they were physically on the end of
the SCSI chain, but I guess not.
Maybe I got a bad term resistor pack, who knows…but I'll continue to
watch around as others figure out their SCSI problems. It seems that I'm
somewhat better off than those folks who got the CBM SCSI port on their
3000, though *grin*
Maybe I need to take off the internal resistor. Hmm…had the case open
today to install my AMAX II+ (which works *wonderfully, BTW), but didn't
think to check if I'd left the resistors on that internal drive. I think I
did, because when I was looking for some extra ones the other week I
couldn't find them, and the only logical place they'd be is on the drive…
Thanks for the response, though!
.. Tim Trompeter…
Tim,
I think that if the SCSI controller is anything like their Series II card,
you will definitely need to take the resistors off of the internal drives.
Let me know what happens…
Jonathan
– via Whap!
One little SCSI wierdness I've discovered is "terminator power." Some
controllers provide it, others don't, and some others don't provide ENOUGH.
You may want to set one of the drives to provide terminator poower and the
others NOT to. Then see what happens. We had this happen with a SCSI
subsystem on one of our PC's at work….
Brian
– via Whap!
Jonathan:
Actually LastLUN should be checked on all the drives unless you have more
than one physical drive hooked up at the same SCSI address. You are
probably thinking of the Last Drive button, which tells the driver that
there are no further drives, and not to search the remaining SCSI addresses
(which speeds the boot process).
-Mike Schiller
In sunny Fort Lauderdale
Mike,
Thanks for the correction. Yeah, that's what I meant.
jonathan
– via Whap!
Margaret:
Are you using GVP's Fastprep software? I've found that it's fairly good as
far as disk partitioning software goes, MUCH nicer than their earlier
software (for their series I controllers). If you have the older series I
controller, you can get the newer FastRom for it (although the latest
versions no longer support the older cards, you'd need version 4.0 or
below) and then you could use FastPrep.
-Mike Schiller
In sunny Fort Lauderdale
Let me say that I started out with an older version of the Faastprep
software. GVP's BBS and support number were very helpfull. They sent me the
latest Faastprep software on disk etc. I have the older controller but I
have the newer Roms. All is up to date. It seems that the Seagate and
Fujitsu could never work it out. I tried, really I did. Finally I asked GVP
which drives they knew worked and had tested and then I bought my Quantum.
I'm happy for now but sorry… I still don't think much of their software.
I'm always reading GVP sob stories in this Forum. Maybe it is too much to
ask of a vendor to support every SCSI drive and combo that comes down the
road.
Margaret:
There are actually several reasons why different drive/controller combos
will or won't work. Termination is a big factor, and with the GVP
controller it seems like the 'regular' way of terminating drives
(terminators only on either end of the SCSI chain) isn't always the way
that works. Drive ID settings are also sometimes hard to figure out, as
different manufacturers use different methods of setting the ID. Even
within drive manufacturers, I've seen 3 different drives (all the same make
& model number) that had different revisions of the firmware (ROM) on the
drive, and all three acted differently. I had a Seagate ST157N hooked to
both a Supra & GVP controller (both SeriesI & II) and never had a moments
trouble (will it did suffer from sticktion, but I tried to never shut it
off), my local dealer has had Fujitsu drives hooked up to GVP controllers
(that's their controller of choice) with no problems, and I've had several
Quantums hooked to GVP controllers that DID give trouble! Of the
controllers that I've used (I currently use a 3000, so don't have much
choice!) is 1. Microbotics HardFrame 2. GVP SeriesII 3. A2091 (my 2091 had
older ROMs on it, I'm told with the latest ROMs it's much faster & more
stable.)
-Mike Schiller
In sunny Fort Lauderdale
there are numerous strange drive behavior stories with A3000s, possibly due
to the 'beta' SCSI controller chip from Wester Digital.
GVP has a BBS. Please give me the number. I have a question I need to ask
them concerning my A3001 and WB2.04.
<<< Michael Shea >>>>
<<< 76665,3360 >>>>
BBS no. for GVP: 215-337-5815
Jonathan,
It sounds to me like the drive has had a problem with validation. You
cannot write to an unvalidated drive, though you can read from it. If you
want to use a disk editor, you can change the validation bit in the root
sector to true, and if this is the problem, it will let you write to the
drive again. I had to do this only last weekend, and I thought I could
find the notes I scribbled to myself as I worked. I believe it is word 70
that you change from 0 to 1. If I'm wrong here, probably either Don or
Larry will correct me, since they work more closely with the drives than I
do these days.
Betty
Betty,
Thanks for the info. I think that it may have been a validation problem,
but the real strangeness was the drive's refusal to take any sort of
format, or even a new RDB.
At any rate, everything seems to be working now…Steve crashed his
drive on purpose, and then was able to do a low level format. Strange
indeed.
jonathan