Evaluating the 1200
29 messages in this thread
I'm thinking about getting an A1200, and wondering about performance hits, and
that sort of thing. I'd really like to hear from some experienced A1200
owners/users who have used 1200's in a graphics type or Multimedia environment.
Compared to an A3000, I'm wondering just how much slower a 1200 is. What type
of memory expansion/accelerator combination would you recommend as being the
best bang for the buck? Is there a *cheap* accelerator/memory combo?
Any feedback MOST appreciated!
Jim
I'll try to answer your questions!
Compared to a 3000 the 1200 is just over 50% speedwise when you only count
raw computing power, but the graphics on the 1200 are faster (writepixel
is about 4 times faster than a 3000)
I'd recommend the Mcirobotics M1230XA unit which sports an '030 clocked at
50Mhz (makes a 1200 Much faster than a 3000) with the option of a 50Mhz
'882. (unless you need a scsi board too, and the only accelerator with
scsi right now is the CSA 12 gauge which is listed at $649, while the
M1230XA is listed at $399. I imagine other scsi options and
scsi.accelerators are on the way.)
Any other questions, just let me know.
Bob…
Thanks for the feedback, it's very much appreciated. I'm interested in the
030 options. Is there an 030 board with a clock and 4 megs of ram available? If
so, how much would such a beast cost, and where should I be calling to get one?
Have you heard of any multi or dual serial options for the A1200?
How about internal modems? (PCMCIA type I guess)
thanks!
Jim
Jim,
I am just leaving to get my 1230XA. This board will probably be what you
need unless, as Bob said, you need SCSI as well. Actually the 12 Guage…
at my last check, does not actually come with SCSI yet… it just has the
expansion capability to add SCSI later… I'm told they are still working
on the interface…
The 1230XA at 50 Mhz will set you back about $359 mail order from Software
Hut (Check July AW). Even though it says $399… say you saw it for less
at Memory World (don't ever order from MW)… Software Hut will lower
their price to $359 to compete. Unfortunately, I have a fear of mail
order so I am paying more at my local dealer.
Then, if you would like the co-processor (50Mhz 68882), that will set you
back another $145 at Software Hut… this price includes the timing
crystal which is necessary to set the speed of the FPU.
Then, the RAM… a 4 meg board will set you back around $150… total?
1230XA $359
FPU $145
RAM $150
——-
654
I am just getting the 030 and FPU today for a total of $549 with tax. I
already have an 8 Meg SIMM on my 1200z.
This 030 board has a built-in clock and MMU as well as being VERY FAST!
In addition, you can place up to a 128MB SIMM on this board!!! That is
more I could ever use! Yes, that is 128MB… the size usually associated
with a hard drive!
Well… good luck… I imagine that the 030 at 50 Mhz will approach the
4000 in speed comparisons… I can't wait… bye!
JDSoftware
Jonathan Schmidt – On AutoPilot from CompuServe Land
Jonathan…
That sounds pretty much like what we're looking for! I'm wondering though,
if there is a slightly slower 030 configuration available. We probably only
need somewhere on the order of 25-33 Mhz. Do they offer something like this for
a lower price? We'd likely not bother with the FPU, as it likely wouldn't be
very helpful in moving graphics around (we don't plan to do any graphics
rendering with the machine, just multimedia stuff, transitions, wipes,
animation playback, etc).
Jim
Jim,
They sure do have lower configs… you can get a 40 Mhz or a 33 Mhz EC030 for
less… they are not that much less though. The 33 Mhz is around $75 less
($300-$350 are the prices I've seen). Really, the 50Mhz version you can't beat
the price/performance ratio. If you are looking just for the board and the mem,
you are looking at $450 for the 30Mhz and $500 for the 50Mhz (approx.)
Let me know if you need anything else… I'm at work and can't wait until I can
pop this baby in… my machine will scream!
Jon
Your best bet for an 030 would probably be the Microbotics M123XA (most
bang for you buck!) The cheapest 50Mhz 1230XA with 4 megs, and no FPU, is
advertised for $489 from Memory World in Amigaworld, though most of the
ads in Amigaworld have the board listed, so name your poison. 🙂
They're definitely shipping, so there shouldn't be much trouble in getting
one.
Multi serial is a problem… I haven't even heard rumors on this, though
the Emplant for the 1200 is due out this summer, and it has to serial
ports on it that can be used by the Amiga, not to mention a pio SCSI
contoller. (The Emplant is an emulation board, but noone says you have to
emulate a MAC, I'm going to get the Emplant for the extra serial and scsi
ports!)
Internal modems is another problem, sure there's plenty of PCMCIA PC
modems, but nobody's writing Amiga drivers for them (it can be done!)
Bob Comer — Cruising the nets on AutoPilot from Cheyenne, Wyoming
Jim,
I've not compared the 2 via timing tests, but the A1200 should be just
about as fast as the the 3000. The reason is the A1200 uses an EC020, it
does not have an MMU. So it does not have a wait state that the A3000
has.
-sja
Steve…
That's *very* interesting. Hmmm. If that's the case, then I'm not going to
need any kind of processor enhancement whatsoever. I sure hope that you're
right…if so, excellent! Thanks for the tip!
Jim
Jim,
See Dale Larson's response to me — for the A1200 to become speedy you need
fast ram — so, you'll need to add ram to it.
Steve…
No question. Chip ram isn't going to provide speedy access. I figure we are
going to need to add a board with 4MB ram and a clock. But if we can save the
cost of the enhanced processor, then I'm *very* happy.
Jim
You might not need an enhanced processor, like I said before, the 1200 is
a bit over half speed of the 3000, but the graphics speed makes up for it
in what your describing (The 1200 is clock at 14Mhz, while the 3000 is
clock at 25Mhz, hence the raw speed figures.)
Deinfitely going to need fast ram though! (about 75% speedup for the 1200
right there!)
Bob Comer — Cruising the nets on AutoPilot from Cheyenne, Wyoming
Bob and Jim,
Got a Q for you both. Seen' how you're talk'n about the 1200.
I've got an A3000 runn'n at 16mhz and want to upgrade my setup to do DTV
and possibly Interactive projects using AmigaVisn. Would you recommend
gettin' the 1200 over buy'n an acclerator for the A3000? I realize I'd
have AGA plus the composite output, that could dump to tape. Then I'd
still need a genlock. Or…..go the 24bit bd route and get
OplVsn,Retina,etc.
Thanks in Advance for your input.
C.Julson——>on AP
Chris…
I will be evaluating the 1200 and 3000 on a side by side comparison basis
as far as merits and drawbacks, in the multimedia realm. That is, I'll be using
both Scala and AmigaVision to try and get a cost/performance rating. I should
have some results in the next week or two. I am expecting my 1200 sometime
tomorrow, but not sure how long it will take me to get a ram expansion board
for it that will enable me to conduct a fair test.
Jim
Hmmmm,
The 1200 is faster and has more colours. What's the beef?
–Paul < Motorola Inside >
Paul….
The beef? Huh?
I want to compare the two machines. Is an EC020 in fact going to be able to
drive things as nicely as an 030? These are the kinds of things I want to find
out in real world tests, that's all.
Jim
It will drive it not only nicely but decidedly better, at least quicker,
that's all 🙂
I think you would be happy.
–Paul < Motorola Inside >
Paul…
I'm hoping that you're right. Not saying you aren't by any stretch
of the imagination. Truth is, I just don't know and it's part of my
job to find out. Real world test results are what I am interested
in, and while I know the specs of AGA, it's how well AGA works in
conjunction with the main processor, the hard disk interface, etc to
create the final working environment. If it's up to snuff, that's
going to make our company very happy, as it will afford us more
flexibility when designing interactive or non interactive kiosk
systems.
Jim
Jim,
Sounds like a good project and an article for one of the magazines.
I'd like to hear the eval when you are ready.
Thanks……..
CJ
Chris..
Hey, if some magazine wants to pay me for an in-depth comparison of the 3000
and 1200 in a Multimedia delivery system context, I'd be happy to oblige. 🙂
Jim
Depends on how much you want to spend! I'd get the 1200, but the lack of
Z3 slots is bad.
If your talking spending enough money to go 24 bit graphics and
accelerator for the 3000, I'd get a 4000 instead!
Bob Comer — Cruising the nets on AutoPilot from Cheyenne, Wyoming
Bob,
Good point on the 4000. Thanks.
CJ
Jim, I timed a hi-res 16 color anim playing on a 3000 and a stock 1200.
The 1200 was about 1.7 times the speed of the 3000. The WritePixel test in
AIBB bears this out as well. I haven't tried the test on an expanded 1200,
but I suppose it wo5ld be even faster.
Jim
Hi Jim,
How does the composite output of the 1200 compare to using a genlock
unit?
CJ
Well, CJ, I suppose it would depend on which genlock you compared it to. I
thought the 1200's output was pretty good. Much better than the 1000, or
the 520 encoder. Going from memory, I'd say it was as good as a mid-range
genlock. If you want to key, you'll need a genlock in any case.
Jim
Jim,
Tks for the info.
Chris
Well the WritePixel routine has been optimized in the OS between 2.04 and
3.x, so it's not really a fair comparison. I think AIBB's speed test is
based on a 3000 using 2.04/2.1 vs the 1200 using 3.x. But the AGA chipset
doesn't hurt in speeding it up either <g>. I think with graphics oriented
operations, the stock 1200 will beat a 25-Mhz 3000 in most cases. However,
for standard integer and floating point operations, the 3000-25 with '882
will blow the 1200 out of the water. But, all test's become invalid if you
put a 50-mhz 030/882 in the 1200 <g>.
// John – (Flying via AutoPilot)
\X/ "Worf: To Hell with the Prime Directive – Give the Borg Windows!"
I suppose so… But I'm not sure I'd agree that using the 3.x writepixel
routine on the 1200 is unfair. That's what it comes with, and what would
be used to run the presentations. As a matter of curiosity, it would be
interesting to see how much of the increased speed is due to AGA & how
much to WritePixel. Next time I get a 1200 in, I'll run that program to
load 1.3 Kickstart… assuming there's little diference in speed from 1.3
to 2.x
No argument on the 50mHz '030 performance. 🙂 I've installed a couple of
the Microbotics boards. Those things fly! Some of the AIBB tests are
actually faster than the 4000.
Jim
The stock A1200 (without fast RAM) will be dramatically slower than the
stock A3000 (which has fast RAM).
Dale Larson
– An Amiga Software Engineer with lots of time on his hands.