#A4000
42 messages in this thread
Is commodore going to release a 68030 A4000 in near future?
Eugene,
Why would Commodore want to downgrade the A4000 by sticking in an
'030? It comes stock with the '040…putting anything less in it would be
terrible!
Don
Don,
Perhaps to fill that incredible price point gap between the A1200 and the
A4000?
An 030 A4000 would be a VERY good idea. And I wouldn't be surprised to see
one eventually. The whole processor card architecture and the "4000/040"
label on the front sort of hint for that.
Usenet rumors (for what those are worth) say Eggebrecht mentioned such a
machine to a group of Amigans after his speech.
My guess is that the 4000 itself will fill that price gap between the 1200
and where the 4000 is priced now. A tower with slots, SCSI, and perhaps
even DSP will end up priced around where the 4K is now. I hope.
–Ben
…via AutoPilot
Ben,
But with the price of the 040 chip and standard margins, Commodore could
release an A4000/030 for a full $1000 less retail price.
Look at the PC universe. Most sales are in the $1K to $2K range. Right now
Commodore doesn't have a machine in that range. (Except a bulked-out
A1200.) The 4000 probably won't drop below $2000 anytime soon, but an
A4000/030 could easily do so.
Denny,
I think you're hallucinating about the price diff between a 68030 and a
68040, and what that would mean to the bottom line.
Unless something has changed drastically in the last 2-3 weeks, anyway.
Regarding PC sales, don't think they mean a thing to this market. Not a
thing.
–Ben
…via AutoPilot
Ben how much do you think a 68030 25 and an 68040 25 go for
Dave
Elite MicroComputers – via Whap!
about 100$ and 400$, off the top of my head, in production quantities
(that is, not what you or I would buy one for, or even GVP – CBM is a
whole nuther ballpark)
–Ben
…via AutoPilot
The 030 25 sells for about $75 and the 040 25 sell for about $475 to VOLUME
DEALERS.
Dave
Elite MicroComputers – via Whap!
400$ diff, then, not 300. I missed by 25%, not too bad. :^)
–Ben
…via AutoPilot
Denny:
Of course you realise that the 4000 will ALWAYS be an 040 or better
machine. Now that's not to say that they don't release a 3400 or something
like that that's really just an A4000MB with 030 card installed.
// -Mike Schiller
\X/ AMIGA! On AutoPilot in sunny Fort Lauderdale
What would be even better is if they sold it without the CPU module…it
allows dealers to Stock A4000 barebones and buy the CPU's as needed….will
also allow developers to compete with C=….I don't think C= would put out
more then a 25MHz 030 module…I would be able to set up a 50MHz no
problem.
Dave
Elite MicroComputers – via Whap!
Denny,
I agree with Ben. The price of the 4000 will drop soon enough that
there'll be no need to bring out a middle machine. I suspect the 4000/40
is because someday there'll be a 4000/50 and so on.
Don
Don,
-> someday there'll be a 4000/50 and so on
rather a 4000/60, as the next Motorola 680×0 CPU is going to be the
68060.
Tom / Amiga Imagineer from Switzerland with AutoPilot engaged
Thomas,
Right…I forgot…Motorola is "skipping" the '050
Don
The word from Motorola is they are not skipping the 050 generation.
They stated that all chips with new architechtures start with the next even
number…68000 went to 68010….020 to 030, but they never made any
impovments on the 040…
Still sounds stupid to me……..
Dave
Elite MicroComputers – via Whap!
Don,
See my note to Ben. Commodore needs a slot system that can be purchased
with monitor for under $2000 at a discount. The 040 adds almost $1000 to
the retail price of the A4000, the chip is so expensive. An 030 Amiga 4000
would be dramatically less expensive to make and wouldn't take much
engineering at all.
I suspect the 4000/040 is more because of a 4000/030 than a 4000/060.
(There's not going to be a 68050…)
Denny,
No idea of what the OEM pricing is for the '030 and the '040, and
yes there are margins to be considered…but I'd personally have a hard
time believeing the difference is worth $1,000.
Not to say it isn't worth it…but it certainly wouldn't be worth
it to me.
Don
I doubt there will be an 030 4000. More likely there will be an 030 AGA
machine, but probaly called the 2200 or 3200. I think the 4000 series
will be used for 040's and above.
…Steve
====>>> Motorola 68030 Inside <<<====
Don,
I don't think you understand Commodore. Commodore US purchases their
machines from Commodore International, whilst the dealers purchase from
Commodore US. Everyone has got to make their 30% in Commodore land,
except the dealers of course who have to battle the mail order toads.
I say the above in a bit of a jest, as I am already seeing signs of the no
AGA mail order rule from Commodore being ignored. Not that I believed it
anyway.
There will be an 030 A4000 so that the margin on the A4000 can be
maintained.
-mark=
Mark,
There is no Commodore US. There is CBM. That is the marketing arm
of Commodore Int'l for the United States. And yes, I'm well aware of the
situation on machine distribution.
Don
Don,
Why is it you are playing symatics with me? The name of Commodore US is
Commodore Business Machines, Inc. What made you think I did not know
this?
Regardless, if you are aware of the machine distribution situation then
you should be aware of how Commodore International does things. They
don't give away hardware, they create machines to preserve their margin.
That is why there will be an 030 based A4000.
-mark=
Mark,
Forget the CBM/Commdore US issue.
My basic position is that there won't be a '030 based A4000. But,
I do believe there will be a mid level machine, perhaps a 1200 style with a
video and 1 system expansion slot…with AGA and it could easily be '030
based.
So perhaps it's semantics getting in the way again…an '030 AGA
based machine…yes, an '030 based 4000…no. AT least that's my opinion
of how things will come down.
Don
Don,
Price is the answer. Something with the price of the 1200, the power of
the 3000 and the expandability of the 4000.
Tom / Amiga Imagineer from Switzerland with AutoPilot engaged
Tom,
I seriously doubt a '030 based 4000 would be that much cheaper.
$100 perhaps, no more.
Don
Don,
Don't count on the technical price. There is a difference between
marketing oriented prices and real world value. The i486sx and i487sx both
being full grown, but artificially crippled i486dx prove my point.
Tom / Amiga Imagineer from Switzerland with AutoPilot engaged
Thomas,
And take a look at the price difference between an i486sx and
similar i486dx machine…very little. I'm looking at a recent Gateway ad
right now:
i486sx/33 with 170Meg HD vs an i486dx/33 with 250 Meg HD (all other
features are the same). The sx is $1695 and the dx is $1995. So for $300
you get 50% more HD and jump from an sx to a dx chip.
Looking at a Zeos ad…the jump from a 486sx to a 486dx (all else
being the same…including HD size) is only $200.
So with that in mind…I really don't see Commodore coming out with
a '030 based 4000 I really don't see them being able to cut the price by
$1000 [which is what everyone seems to want] by simply dropping one level
in the CPU.
Don
While I agree that there is no good reason to market an 030 A4000, the i486
family isn't a valid comparison to 680×0. There is no manufacturing
difference between a 486sx and a 486dx – they just burn out a perfectly
good part of the dx chip to make it into an sx. Whereas the 040 is a much
more difficult chip to manufacture (one reason you haven't seen any 50-MHz
040 chips on the market, whereas 50-MHz 030s are easily obtainable.
In other words, your conclusion (no way to justify a $1K price drop for an
030 A4000) is correct, your analogy is invalid, IMHO.
Yours pedantically,
Bob
Bob,
I know the chips aren't equivalent…I was merely commenting on
Tom's posting.
Don
Your looking at the wrong level in the PC world
The difference between a 68030 25 and 68040 25
is like the difference between a 386-40 and a 486DX-50
I work directly will all of the above CPUs. And the difference in price and
logic required is ALOT different between the 386/486 then between the 486
SX/DX.
Dave
Elite MicroComputers – via Whap!
Dave,
Like I said…I was replying to Tom's comment…not making one of
my own.
Don
Don,
I didn't know the sx and dx were priced so close. Why would someone
possibly want to buy an sx? Was it always like that?
Tom / Amiga Imagineer from Switzerland with AutoPilot engaged
Tom,
No…it wasn't always like that…but for the last 6 months or
so…it has been. For the average buyer…it makes no sense at all not to
pay the $200 extra. For folks like me, where I work…we've got legal
considerations. I work for a city government…we can't spend more than
$1499 before we have to get a bill passed by the City Council to pay for
it. That process takes at least 2 months even if everything is approved in
advance. So, we buy the best machine we can for $1499 or less.
We do have some other sources of funding…and when we buy from
those sources…there's no such legal constraint…so we buy the better
boxes then. For example, I just spent close to $5000 (and that price was
DEEPLY discounted) for a notebook computer without so much as a nod to City
Council.
Don
My guess is about $600 less
about 400 less for the chip
100 less for the board (less logic, etc)
100 cut in CBM profit for the 'lower machine'
Dave
Elite MicroComputers – via Whap!
Don,
I fully support Commodore producing an Amiga 4000/030. Currently the
product line has an area in the $1000-$2300 range that has no product.
Commodore needs a product there, an 030 baesd A4000 would be the ticket.
-mark=
Mark,
See my other messages in this thread. I don't believe an '030
based machine would be that much cheaper.
Don
$$$$$$$, That's why.. 🙂
Bob Comer
So it coud run Unix?
wmc – via Autopilot!
Wayne,
And what's running UNIX got to do with the '030 vs the '040 issue?
Don
Commodore's UNIX won't run on an 040. This is a problem with CBM's UNIX,
not with the Motorola family; other 040 machines run different Unii just
fine. The solution would be a recode of the troublesome bits of source
code in CBM's UNIX.
Don:
Currently running Unix has EVERYTHING to do with 030s & 040s. At the
moment AmigaUnix only works on the 030, so it will NOT run on the A4000.
If/when Commodore ports their Unix over to the 040 then it will be a moot
point.
While on the topic of Unix, I just installed BSD386 (a freeware port of
BSD Unix to the PC) on my PC yesterday, and it installed flawlessly! It's
a shame that Matt Dillon stopped work on his port of BSD to the Amiga. 🙁
// -Mike Schiller
\X/ AMIGA! On AutoPilot in sunny Fort Lauderdale
As I understand it, the Amiga Unix is not '040 compatible. That appeared
in a message or two here and I didn't question why – just accepted it as
it sounded like a "first-hand knowledge" report.
wmc – via Autopilot!